Unfortunately for this young Terran prodigy, this is the beginning of where his royal road trip will end. While TvT is probably the most boring match-up for me to watch(~_~), it is also definitely the most mechanical match-up. Generally the better player will always win. That being said, Flash doesn't screw up. And in a match-up where mechanics and skill will almost always decide the victor, Flash takes the cake. Sorry, BaBy!
Expecting an upset here, if you can call it that. Movie is most likely the favorite here, but both their PvPs are weak. So when I say an upset, it doesn't really say much in the first place. Pure wins this map.
Jesus Mirrorfest of Christ! Anyway, I think ZerO will win just because he is a stronger player over all and the fact that EffOrt is in the slump of a century. Also, EffOrt's ZvZ record on Great Barrier Reef is 1-3. Although map choice doesn't really effect my opinion that much, its just more data to pile on to the ZerO side of my equation. ZerO wins this map in 6 minutes and 34 seconds.
Man I love Kal, his face always looks so smug. Even when he loses it always looks like he is smiling. Anyway... I expect him to lose this map. For some reason I get this awful feeling that Kal loses this one, then wins the next 2. Even though the stats say that everything is going in Kal's favor... even with a 62.04% PvT record, I just feel an upset. It may look like Kal's recent PvT record is shaky, with 3 losses in a row. But 2 of those were to Flash in good(great) games. But.. gotta go with the gut. fOrGG wins this map.
On April 23 2010 10:32 Kyuukyuu wrote: Zero please win, don't let Effort through... I like Effort but dear god he does not belong in an OSL semis right now
Its funny if Effort beats Zero, his ZvP is good enough to take out Kal, which means he will be in the finals.
OP is wrong. At the high levels TvT is super entertaining and can be epic though it can be really boring at the lower level. Luckily Canata is not playing today so we can hope for the first scenario.
On April 23 2010 10:58 Lebesgue wrote: OP is wrong. At the high levels TvT is super entertaining and can be epic though it can be really boring at the lower level. Luckily Canata is not playing today so we can hope for the first scenario.
Opinions can't really be wrong.... but okay
I find TvT boring no matter who is playing, personally.
On April 23 2010 10:58 Lebesgue wrote: OP is wrong. At the high levels TvT is super entertaining and can be epic though it can be really boring at the lower level. Luckily Canata is not playing today so we can hope for the first scenario.
Opinions can't really be wrong.... but okay
I find TvT boring no matter who is playing, personally.
Despite the mirror match ups, I sense awesome games abound.
To bad Flash and Baby are facing off so soon though, I’d like them in the finals. But, at least they get a showdown. This match will certainly test Baby, he’s been doing well, but even so it’s going to be a battle up hill for him in this game.
Is it gonna be winner of Flash/BaBy vs Movie/Pure and fOrGG/Kal vs ZerO/ EffOrt ? If so we are gonna get non minor semifinals and most probably non-minor finals too. Small price to pay for 3 mirror best of 3
14cc from baby but he built it inbase, so flash is still going to be mining out of his expo first, flash also with quicker tech. not that this much of a difference matters in tvt
On April 23 2010 18:45 Zona wrote: Baby gets his Rax at 14 or 15.
Nothing Flash can't overcome.
since baby had to float his CC he actually only got a few seconds of mining on it before flash's expo kicked in as well. however, his rax was late as a result.
baby somehow has mines and siege earlier than flash (probably all those armories), but loses quite a few tanks to some early pressure, flash containing right outside babies base
baby with 1 wraith (though flash has a goliath out). flash started an expo at 3 oclock (which will put him ahead by 1 since baby's 9 oclock expo is no longer.
baby now trying to establish control at 12 oclock with a tank line. floating his already built cc there.
flash's forces (with the help of 1 dropship) advance on 12 oclock. flash now sieging right next (but still out of cc range).
flash starting a 4th expo at 4 oclock, but the scv quickly gets picked off by baby's vult. flash destroys it with his own, and a new scv resumes the job.
Baby's vulture finds the 4th and snipes the SCV before it finishes building! But Flash has his own vults there and a really fast replacement SCV--great reaction by Flash.
baby brings forces to 3.5, sieges and mines the area. flash's cc there is cancelled. flash responds by dropping at 9 oclock, stopping baby from taking it. flash is also advancing towards 7 oclock.
baby is forced to cancel his cc at 7 as flash's forces get there. flash drops on the expo at 12 (on top of mines), loses some forces, but halts mining. additional drops clean up and secure the area (6 dropships for flash). baby back on 3 base atm).
Both players "hiding" a CC from their opponent by taking the opposite corner expos 2 vultures deal a bit of damage at Flash's base at 3 and now some at Flash's base at 12 too
Baby continues to do a solid job harassing Flash's expansion at 3, and now also harassing 12 with vultures. Getting lots of kills, but Flash now denies bottom right expansion.
Baby's multi vulture drop at 3 and 12 are keepigng him in this game. if he can clear up his main, and secure expos, then he can return game to normal for a bit.
baby drops some tanks behind min line at 12, flash brings in tanks to cleanup, and re-lands cc. flash is still on 4 bases now (2 mining), baby on 3 (1 mining).
baby sends his last remaining forces to try and reclaim 7 and 7.5.
flash decides instead of securing that base to instead drop on 9 oclock. drops on mines (loses some forces) but invades the base. flash's tank there gets flanked by scvs and dies.
flash still on 2 mining bases (12 and 3) vs baby's 1 (9), though baby now has established some ground in the middle, and will likely attempt to expo at 7 and 8 soon.
flash in trouble now? supply is once again close to even, and flash has lost his map control. baby has taken 8 oclock, though flash is bringing all his dropships there to take out the area. fies over with the dropships and leaves without dropping (likely due to mines). flash expos at 4 and 5 again now.
flash drops on baby's main. baby saw it coming and brought a lot of tanks into his main to defend. flash's dropships fly past and drop on 8 oclock instead. baby losing a lot of forces, but with the scvs and incoming tnaks, he saves he expo.
I urious drpo from Flash, Drops about 8 tanks in teh mineral line. Kill a few forces and a good deal of SCVs, but at the price of 8 tanks. I think he could have made it more cost effective - strange.
On April 23 2010 19:11 SkelA wrote: Baby harrasment style is so good looking like the game is even again
How can u say this, i havent watch the game between since i had to go, i came back and i have no idea where u got this.. One glimps and u can see that it is not even..
GJ baby for putting up such a fight and almost making a comeback at one point. You need to plan more abusive gimmick builds for next week if you want to win.
That was a really good TvT. Some bad play/luck by Flash dropping ontop of mines about half way through almost lead to baby starving him out. Still great play on both sides.
The commentators kept going on and on about how it's a good sign that Baby can make Flash fight so hard and how he will be able to play with more confidence in their game next week, even if he loses now. I kind of agree; he really did show that he can roll with Flash and (almost) equal terms.
i guess i didn't mean early, i just meant it looked like baby was going for something and then it didn't happen. but if he lost his depots, factories, all his scvs, etc., of course that's gg
after flash's drop i think they were about even on tanks maybe but flash had way more scvs and dropships, baby had almost no saturation and all of flash's mining bases were completely saturated
On April 23 2010 19:16 revy wrote: That was a really good TvT. Some bad play/luck by Flash dropping ontop of mines about half way through almost lead to baby starving him out. Still great play on both sides.
Starving him out? After Flash dropped Baby's early 3rd at 9 at the beginning of the game, Flash was always ahead by at least 1 mining base the entire game.
Baby played so beautifully. It looked like he was out of it from the start and there were many periods where he was behind by huge amounts of food, but he kept fighting back and evening the macro / getting his food count pretty close to Flash's through his awesome vulture harassment and expansion denying play. But in the end Flash's multitasking and macro was just too strong for Baby.
if only flash didnt land on the mines for so many times, the game was over 10mins earlier. he was so ahead in all aspects. GOLDEN MOUSE GOLDEN MOUSE GOLDEN MOUSE!!!
On April 23 2010 19:20 moopie wrote: Still don't understand baby's opening (looked like 13cc, but in-base). floating it over cost the bo advantage.
14cc inbase protects you from early marines since you can drill the entrance or ramp. he didnt expect flash to 14rx, 15 cc or whatever he did so he was going for the safe choice.
Interestingly, baby's turtling combined with his use of vultures for both mines and harass is a passable counter to flash's mass-drops-with-macro-advantage style. Flash was actually in danger there momentarily.
Yeah, that was a great game. I thought that Baby might come back for a while there. But those dropships really sealed the deal for Flash
gg.
But I think this game shows that Baby is really one of the best players at the moment, being able to take on Flash like that. (Even if it was a loss, it was a straight up game.) Of course there are one or two more games left, maybe Baby can come back. (Though I doubt it, it's just a distinct possibility.)
On April 23 2010 19:16 revy wrote: That was a really good TvT. Some bad play/luck by Flash dropping ontop of mines about half way through almost lead to baby starving him out. Still great play on both sides.
Starving him out? After Flash dropped Baby's early 3rd at 9 at the beginning of the game, Flash was always ahead by at least 1 mining base the entire game.
Maybe you missed the point in the game where the only operational expos were Baby had 9 and Flash had 3 but Baby's 9 was much more fresh. This was immediately following Flash's drops getting killed by mines and baby forcing 12 to lift.
Yes I saw the stats... Flash's APM are quite lower. I think APM really doesnt matter after all. it all boils down to the decison making and the efficiency of your actions
mines are part of strategy, flash opted for more goliaths while baby placed more mines because he knew that was his chance of coming back because flash was ahead in dropshipd/econn/supply....baby almost came back that game, made it equal mining bases(almost) for a moment; and that is why flash was smiling backstage. he knew he won a very close game.
On April 23 2010 19:21 integral wrote: Interestingly, baby's turtling combined with his use of vultures for both mines and harass is a passable counter to flash's mass-drops-with-macro-advantage style. Flash was actually in danger there momentarily.
Mmm. If Baby moved his tanks a bit more towards 12 and stopped Flash from mining there (when Flash was mining with his off-placed CC) the game might have been a lot closer.
Unless Flash totally brakes down, there is no player in the OSL that can stand a chance. 1 game perhaps but in a bo5, this will be a walk in the park for Flahs.
On April 23 2010 19:22 Zona wrote: Baby with higher APM that game in all 3 categories.
Flash just overpowered Baby with more units, and then the finisher with the drops in the main.
BTW I think Nada consistently has an APM over 400 while Flash stays around the 350 area.
Additionally, when sAviOr, when he was still good, was beating Nada's 450+ APM with an APM of about 250.
I know it is different races in that case, but I don't think APM at this level is something that is too important. Really, it is only good for diagnosing game play that might be too slow.
On April 23 2010 19:21 myrmidon2537 wrote: the song at boesthius' stream is growing on me (at least the drum parts). I guess hearing it endlessly when watching streams does that.
pardon a noobie, but what song is this? >_<
it's the metal remix of Gee done by LemonWalrus here on tl
On April 23 2010 19:16 revy wrote: That was a really good TvT. Some bad play/luck by Flash dropping ontop of mines about half way through almost lead to baby starving him out. Still great play on both sides.
Starving him out? After Flash dropped Baby's early 3rd at 9 at the beginning of the game, Flash was always ahead by at least 1 mining base the entire game.
Maybe you missed the point in the game where the only operational expos were Baby had 9 and Flash had 3 but Baby's 9 was much more fresh. This was immediately following Flash's drops getting killed by mines and baby forcing 12 to lift.
Baby only forced 12 to lift for short moments when you're talking about that point in the game. After than Flash had the right side up and running a lot earlier than Baby's left side.
To discuss starving someone out you can't just consider only their current mining ability but their short term potential too.
On April 23 2010 19:20 moopie wrote: Still don't understand baby's opening (looked like 13cc, but in-base). floating it over cost the bo advantage.
14cc inbase protects you from early marines since you can drill the entrance or ramp. he didnt expect flash to 14rx, 15 cc or whatever he did so he was going for the safe choice.
I believe that was a 13cc in-base. On a 4-player map like Eye of the Storm, your opponent isnt likely to go for a very early marine push (hence why people 14cc on it all the time).
Was worried for flash for a while there. Lost 5 tanks to 1 mine and then lost all his units again in the drop later on as Baby got his eco up. Nice end move with dropshipadvantadge ending the game. good game imo even though flash played abit sloppy in the early lategame.
On April 23 2010 19:25 o[twist] wrote: baby should have built more scvs, taken gas at the 8 o'clock base, etc.
hard to say all of these things in isolation. Maybe if Baby built more scvs, he'd have less vultures and wouldn't have been able to pull off so much harassment of Flash's bases?
On April 23 2010 19:20 moopie wrote: Still don't understand baby's opening (looked like 13cc, but in-base). floating it over cost the bo advantage.
14cc inbase protects you from early marines since you can drill the entrance or ramp. he didnt expect flash to 14rx, 15 cc or whatever he did so he was going for the safe choice.
I believe that was a 13cc in-base. On a 4-player map like Eye of the Storm, your opponent isnt likely to go for a very early marine push (hence why people 14cc on it all the time).
yea but flash has also been know to build his rax forward for faster scouting. and overall it makes the build safer. I don't know what build flash did. 13rax 14 cc? Flash's rax and BaBy's CC went down almost simo. so idk.
What is interesting its ~1.5K spectators on both streams combined while last nights SC2 showmatch got ~6k. Appears that SCII will bring revival to SC scene even if its just curiosity.
On April 23 2010 19:28 emoniax wrote: Baby is the future of terran. no doubt about it. But will stay below the Ultimate Weapon as long as he still plays
On April 23 2010 19:28 Zona wrote: Well Baby's CC actually landed at the nat a split second before Flash's CC finished at his nat so it was no big deal.
On April 23 2010 19:21 Kwanroller wrote: Baby with quite a bit more APM than Flash. Like 50 more.
And Flash had about 50 more EAPM.
Unless I'm reading the table wrong, Baby was around 350-450-250 and Flash was around 300-400-200. Isn't one of the values EAPM?
What I mean is, I think many people on TL would agree with me, is that APM does not matter if you don't put it to good use, or you can't make good decisions to benefit from that high APM.
In a simple case, I can just spam hot keys to get a really high APM but still be a lousy player because of all the button pressing, not much is happening.
On a more complicated level, even if all those actions go to act on a strategy, who cares if you can make more movements when those movements, on a larger strategic levels are not your best moves available to you. It just reverts back to the simple model because there you are also doing a lot of button pressing but it is not putting into motion the best strategy possible for you. In fact, that is an exaggerted case if you want to consider the possibility that at that level one can control the high APM rather than spam it.
You might say that, well if Baby made all the right decision, as well as Flash, then he should win because he has a higher APM. In this case, Baby would win because his micro/macro game would be more exact and prolific. But I really don't think that Flash can't keep up with Baby. His strategy does not require the need for such high APM, which may add to the stability and consistency of his game play. (NaDa for instance has an APM of over 450, but this was true even when he began to lose games about a year ago.)
So when you have two A listers, APM is fun to look at, but APM does not win games, and I refure to try to draw concrete conclusions from them other than that those players can hit such high APMs in playing a high level game.
On April 23 2010 19:28 Zona wrote: Well Baby's CC actually landed at the nat a split second before Flash's CC finished at his nat so it was no big deal.
On April 23 2010 19:35 Qwertify wrote: You might say that, well if Baby made all the right decision, as well as Flash, then he should win because he has a higher APM.
You might also say, that if flash was really concerned about his avg. APM being too low, he wouldn't open every game 1 handed (if that), drinking his Pocari Sweat while splitting scvs.
On April 23 2010 19:21 Kwanroller wrote: Baby with quite a bit more APM than Flash. Like 50 more.
And Flash had about 50 more EAPM.
Unless I'm reading the table wrong, Baby was around 350-450-250 and Flash was around 300-400-200. Isn't one of the values EAPM?
What I mean is, I think many people on TL would agree with me, is that APM does not matter if you don't put it to good use, or you can't make good decisions to benefit from that high APM.
In a simple case, I can just spam hot keys to get a really high APM but still be a lousy player because of all the button pressing, not much is happening.
On a more complicated level, even if all those actions go to act on a strategy, who cares if you can make more movements when those movements, on a larger strategic levels are not your best moves available to you. It just reverts back to the simple model because there you are also doing a lot of button pressing but it is not putting into motion the best strategy possible for you. In fact, that is an exaggerted case if you want to consider the possibility that at that level one can control the high APM rather than spam it.
You might say that, well if Baby made all the right decision, as well as Flash, then he should win because he has a higher APM. In this case, Baby would win because his micro/macro game would be more exact and prolific. But I really don't think that Flash can't keep up with Baby. His strategy does not require the need for such high APM, which may add to the stability and consistency of his game play. (NaDa for instance has an APM of over 450, but this was true even when he began to lose games about a year ago.)
So when you have two A listers, APM is fun to look at, but APM does not win games, and I refure to try to draw concrete conclusions from them other than that those players can hit such high APMs in playing a high level game.
Good post but I was just making a statement. Of course with Flash flying his dropships around, Baby had to keep multitasking like mad to keep defending against Flash's army, plant mines everywhere, go on the offensive to gain ground and so forth. Everyone knows having like 500 APM like By.Hero doesn't mean squat if you're not smart enough to defend your main from that that marine dropship play.
On April 23 2010 19:49 Zona wrote: pure moves a speed shuttle into movie's main - bumps into some goons and movie has goons behind his mineral line at his nat too
I guess you can mind control the shuttle. Pretty cool idea to be honest. Movie can't use the dark templars for much since he missed his autogg timing and he can negate Pure's reavers.
On April 23 2010 19:49 below66 wrote: dark archon this early? for what? tell me im noob!
he had 2 dts that he couldnt do anything with since the obs came out too early for them to be useful. pure has 2 reavers + 1 shuttle atm, movie doesnt. darchon can help him balance things out a bit in a showdown atm.
On April 23 2010 19:50 Kwanroller wrote: I guess you can mind control the shuttle. Pretty cool idea to be honest. Movie can't use the dark templars for much since he missed his autogg timing and he can negate Pure's reavers.
if you mind control a shuttle, is everything inside mind controlled? i never knew this if thats the case
On April 23 2010 19:50 Kwanroller wrote: I guess you can mind control the shuttle. Pretty cool idea to be honest. Movie can't use the dark templars for much since he missed his autogg timing and he can negate Pure's reavers.
if you mind control a shuttle, is everything inside mind controlled? i never knew this if thats the case
I knew Pure could do it if he actually used his brain for once. He's quite a good player but far too often just goes on autopilot and loses to stuff like harassment.
Really smart by Pure. Movie was expecting him to use his Shuttles to hold the 3rd so he brought the Dark Archon for his push but instead Pure counter dropped beautifully.
Pretty cool strat by Movie though - go straight for Templar tech and hope to get free speed Shuttle + Reavers in the process.
Hrm, are these split Bo3's set up so that fans of each player need to show up every week rather than only during the weeks where their favorite players play? Grr!
great timing by Pure, he anticipated when Movie was going to attack, and then dropped reavers and a dts in Movie's main. Can someone explain why Movie had a dark archon again?
On April 23 2010 19:57 FireGuyX wrote: great timing by Pure, he anticipated when Movie was going to attack, and then dropped reavers and a dts in Movie's main. Can someone explain why Movie had a dark archon again?
Useless dark templars, may as well get it for feedback at least but then he decided to mind control
On April 23 2010 19:57 FireGuyX wrote: great timing by Pure, he anticipated when Movie was going to attack, and then dropped reavers and a dts in Movie's main. Can someone explain why Movie had a dark archon again?
to mind control the shuttle and hopefully getting 2 reavers
On April 23 2010 19:57 FireGuyX wrote: great timing by Pure, he anticipated when Movie was going to attack, and then dropped reavers and a dts in Movie's main. Can someone explain why Movie had a dark archon again?
He was planning to use mind control on Pure's shuttle to negate his reaver advantage.
Movie missed his autogg timing you sometimes get when you use dark templars so he turned them into a dark archon to make them useful.
On April 23 2010 19:55 emoniax wrote: he shoudlnt have left his main unguarded.... that cost movie the game.... Nice play by Pure
He didn't. he left a few goons there (and a cannon) to deal with 1 shuttle, he wasn't counting on 2 shuttles (2 reavers as well as DTs).
Yah but he should have defended it at least. instead he threw all his forces for attacking and when he came back his main was already raped by DTs
At that point, his forces were essentially across the map, outside of pure's 3rd (min-only). They wouldn't have made it back in time, he had to commit to his attack (and hopefully destroy that base, thus putting them about even). Sometimes you get unlucky.
On April 23 2010 19:57 FireGuyX wrote: great timing by Pure, he anticipated when Movie was going to attack, and then dropped reavers and a dts in Movie's main. Can someone explain why Movie had a dark archon again?
to mind control the shuttle and hopefully getting 2 reavers
He should have left the dark archon in the his main if that's what Movie was anticipating. Movie should have immediately defended his main when it was being attacked.
On April 23 2010 19:55 okum wrote: Godly dual-shuttle drop-kill by Pure. Well played
How much supply did Pure have tied up in that drop? 2 reavers = 8 2 shuttles = 4 4 dtmplar = 8
All together = 20 supply. Movie went after the rest of Pure's army, so I'm guessing Movie had to have about 20 plus supply on that army. But Pure did the right move and just stalled until reinforcements could buffer the differece, and defensive positioning and buildings could help him quell the push. After that, the harass took care of the rest of the game.
I guess after Movie repelled that one shuttle he didn't expect such a strong harass to follow. Pro gamers have to think of everything.
On April 23 2010 20:00 quattrob wrote: Movie tried to be innovative with the Dark Archon's mind control but it costed him the game.
He did that cause he had nothing else to do with the 2 dts at that point, they missed their timing (which that put him back a lot). the darchon was an attempt to counter the shuttle/reaver long enough to tech himself.
On April 23 2010 19:55 emoniax wrote: he shoudlnt have left his main unguarded.... that cost movie the game.... Nice play by Pure
He didn't. he left a few goons there (and a cannon) to deal with 1 shuttle, he wasn't counting on 2 shuttles (2 reavers as well as DTs).
Yah but he should have defended it at least. instead he threw all his forces for attacking and when he came back his main was already raped by DTs
Would have been awesome had Movie MC'd that shuttle if it were 2 reavers aiding pure's goon army. That would be ~700 min, 200 gas gone down the drain in one fell swoop. That and it might do extra dmg if the goons don't kill it so early.
I mean really, who targets a dark archon in battle? So I guess that was a sneaky move by movie, but pure was just sneakier.
I don't understand how Pure defended that attack on his third...
Movie's goons were attacking Pure's pylons while his zealots were getting picked off by Pure's goons but still after that Movie had superior goon numbers...Did MOvie back off prematurely? To take down the shuttle?
I do agree that keeping the DArchon at home would be the best drop defense, but plucking your opponent's shuttle/reaver from their hands while fighting would have been a table turner
On April 23 2010 20:09 Zona wrote: I don't understand how Pure defended that attack on his third...
Movie's goons were attacking Pure's pylons while his zealots were getting picked off by Pure's goons but still after that Movie had superior goon numbers...Did MOvie back off prematurely? To take down the shuttle?
I do agree that keeping the DArchon at home would be the best drop defense, but plucking your opponent's shuttle/reaver from their hands while fighting would have been a table turner
I think he took the DA with him because he expected Pure to use his reaver/shuttle to aid his goons after his initial harass failed, which is the usual strategy in Protoss if you go goon/reaver. So if he could MC that shuttle then, it would be a huge advantage. By the time the shuttles were there in his base, it made no sense to turn around.
On April 23 2010 20:09 Zona wrote: I don't understand how Pure defended that attack on his third...
Movie's goons were attacking Pure's pylons while his zealots were getting picked off by Pure's goons but still after that Movie had superior goon numbers...Did MOvie back off prematurely? To take down the shuttle?
I do agree that keeping the DArchon at home would be the best drop defense, but plucking your opponent's shuttle/reaver from their hands while fighting would have been a table turner
Movie left at home 3 dragoons, and two cannons in his base. That's basically 3 goons + 3 virtual zealots. Plus he had a DA instead of two dt's. So in his attack he had like 10-15 more supply. Pure just waited for one round of army from his gates and defended. Movie didn't have reinforcements. That's all.
Movie's build is good, contrary to what most people here think, but in this game it didn't work somehow. Will be funny if in the next game Pure will use this build and win.
On April 23 2010 20:09 Zona wrote: I don't understand how Pure defended that attack on his third...
Movie's goons were attacking Pure's pylons while his zealots were getting picked off by Pure's goons but still after that Movie had superior goon numbers...Did MOvie back off prematurely? To take down the shuttle?
I do agree that keeping the DArchon at home would be the best drop defense, but plucking your opponent's shuttle/reaver from their hands while fighting would have been a table turner
Movie left at home 3 dragoons, and two cannons in his base. That's basically 3 goons + 3 virtual zealots. Plus he had a DA instead of two dt's. So in his attack he had like 10-15 more supply. Pure just waited for one round of army from his gates and defended. Movie didn't have reinforcements. That's all.
Movie's build is good, contrary to what most people here think, but in this game it didn't work somehow. Will be funny if in the next game Pure will use this build and win.
perhaps timing and luck got in the game for Pure,,, affected 30% of the outcome
what luck? he predicted the attack, fell his troops back.. and dropped, movie's units hit the nexus too many times instead of hitting units so thats why his third survived
On April 23 2010 20:17 below66 wrote: what luck? he predicted the attack, fell his troops back.. and dropped, movie's units hit the nexus too many times instead of hitting units so thats why his third survived
luck is when you dropped in a base that used to have DarkArchon 2 cannons and some goons, and then suddenly your opponent pulled out the unit that will MC a shuttle
On April 23 2010 20:17 below66 wrote: what luck? he predicted the attack, fell his troops back.. and dropped, movie's units hit the nexus too many times instead of hitting units so thats why his third survived
luck is when you dropped in a base that used to have DarkArchon 2 cannons and some goons, and then suddenly your opponent pulled out the unit that will MC a shuttle
Looked like Zero was slightly ahead until he ate those two surprise Scourge. Effort's gamble paid off - he could easily have just lost all 4 Scourge for nothing.
i hate watching mirror match-ups but I hate ZvZ the most, just seems repetitive; nothing new ever happens in zvz its down to such as science that one little extra made drone or line by mistake could cost you the game.
On April 23 2010 20:33 below66 wrote: i hate watching mirror match-ups but I hate ZvZ the most, just seems repetitive; nothing new ever happens in zvz its down to such as science that one little extra made drone or line by mistake could cost you the game.
We watch for that rare chance that it will go into late game, where we begin to literally see every unit possible in the Zerg arsenal save for the Infested Terran. But if there is a neutral CC on the map, I'm sure that will be used as well.
On April 23 2010 20:33 below66 wrote: i hate watching mirror match-ups but I hate ZvZ the most, just seems repetitive; nothing new ever happens in zvz its down to such as science that one little extra made drone or line by mistake could cost you the game.
We watch for that rare chance that it will go into late game, where we begin to literally see every unit possible in the Zerg arsenal save for the Infested Terran. But if there is a neutral CC on the map, I'm sure that will be used as well.
can you recommend some games lately where this has happened? because I haven't seen one of those in YEARS.
On April 23 2010 20:57 SuperArc wrote: This is even gayer than 12nex->dt->2base carriers.
lol no way. This build is really hard to pull off and takes a lot of skill to micro since the dts are later, a quick dt drop is a gay build, this build takes some skill to use.
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
Crazy strat by Kal. Forgg knew that something was going on and still didn't manage to stop it, although he built a lot of turrets. Very ballsy move by Kal.
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
WTF is up with the no smile policy? Whenever a camera gets close to Kal he stops smiling and starts looking out into the distance. Seem unnecessary to make them act so emotionless all the time.
Anyway - Forgg got rolled. Kal is a beast. Pure will get rolled next friday though gg
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
Flash would've got mines faster.
Flash would have build a turret at his mineral line.
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
Flash would've got mines faster.
wtf are you talking about? Why would Flash get mines vs a shuttle build? He would simply have a better turret ring + placement + keep 1-2 tanks + 4-6 rines at his main patrolling.
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
out of all races i always love seeing terran lose the most, but maybe that's because ive always though tanks were overpowered, and noone can stop a 200/200 3/3 terran powerball.
On April 23 2010 21:01 oxidized wrote: I'd love to see this build vs Flash, but people rarely seem to cheese him anymore. I wonder how someone like Flash would defend it,
Flash would've got mines faster.
wtf are you talking about? Why would Flash get mines vs a shuttle build? He would simply have a better turret ring + placement + keep 1-2 tanks + 4-6 rines at his main patrolling.
I did that to have a timing push later I guess, bases were close
On April 23 2010 21:04 purpose wrote: Always so nice to see the Terran fanboys whine and cry over lame protoss.
The only thing protoss can do vs terran not to be gay, lame or cheesy is to play standard and lose. Then its all fine.
Yep, that about sums it up nicely. That strat seemed rather original to me, and I thought it was really gutsy to tech so insanely vs. a Terran playing safe and expanding. Really didn't expect to see so much hate in the forum...
On April 23 2010 21:04 purpose wrote: Always so nice to see the Terran fanboys whine and cry over lame protoss.
The only thing protoss can do vs terran not to be gay, lame or cheesy is to play standard and lose. Then its all fine.
Yep, that about sums it up nicely. That strat seemed rather original to me, and I thought it was really gutsy to tech so insanely vs. a Terran playing safe and expanding. Really didn't expect to see so much hate in the forum...
It has been done before, and it's insanely cheesy and all-in. But I guess that's what impresses Protoss players...
I couldn't hide the retardedly extreme bitterness I feel even if I tried to. XD
On April 23 2010 21:04 purpose wrote: Always so nice to see the Terran fanboys whine and cry over lame protoss.
The only thing protoss can do vs terran not to be gay, lame or cheesy is to play standard and lose. Then its all fine.
Really? It's nice for you to see people whining and crying? You are a pretty broken person then, probably some childhood issues to boot.
I would feel bad for you, but I guess you also like seeing people feeling bad, so I wouldn't, eat it!
Totally unrelated, I'm hoping for 2 BBS in a row for ForGG next week lol.
BM much? That was uncalled for. Hope you get temp ban.
C'mon, you personaly don't find post like that a little obnoxious? Cry me a river fanboys, your tears are so sweet, lick lick etc., what exactly people think they are gonna accomplish by post like that?
I consider my post less BM than his, but if a mod see it differently, I will take it.
Zero should have pped after he ran into that group of scourge and blamed it on his mouse.
Also, IMO, here on TL, it is acceptable for people to bitch about SC related stuff , such as "cheesy tosses, cheesy tosses whinners, cheesy tosses whinner whinners, fanboys, MU imbalance bitchers, and so forth. Although it is annoying as hell.
I do not think it is acceptable to go after a person personally.
On April 23 2010 21:17 Holgerius wrote: That game represents everything that's wrong with life, the universe and everything. Fuck Protoss. Gawekisanknj
That game made me intensely happy. Fuck terrans.
PS If effort beats zero next week I'll be so pissed off. Effort has no chance of beating a Flash while zero at least has a faint chance.
On April 23 2010 21:04 purpose wrote: The only thing protoss can do vs terran not to be gay, lame or cheesy is to play standard and lose. Then its all fine.
Well, yesssss! Didn't you know this is was the T theory about the art PvT?
"Be a man, play standard and lose to T FE!"
Great game from Kal, and funny comments from all the people here :-)
On April 23 2010 23:31 lone_hydra wrote: Also, IMO, here on TL, it is acceptable for people to bitch about SC related stuff , such as "cheesy tosses, cheesy tosses whinners, cheesy tosses whinner whinners, fanboys, MU imbalance bitchers, and so forth. Although it is annoying as hell.
I do not think it is acceptable to go after a person personally.
Well, it's not like I was serious...
But ok, next time I will write how only broken protoss with serious terran issues can enjoy seeing terran players whine and cry, that should be acceptable then heh.
On April 23 2010 21:17 Holgerius wrote: That game represents everything that's wrong with life, the universe and everything. Fuck Protoss. Gawekisanknj
That game made me intensely happy. Fuck terrans.
PS If effort beats zero next week I'll be so pissed off. Effort has no chance of beating a Flash while zero at least has a faint chance.
No, Zero's chances to beat Flash's TvZ in a bo5 in a final on more and less T>Z maps is as high as Effort's.
0%, 0.99% if you are generous.
The only player who has more than 10% chance to beat Flash in a bo5 is Jaedong, because he's playing like two levels higher than he normally does in a bo5.
On April 23 2010 23:31 lone_hydra wrote: Also, IMO, here on TL, it is acceptable for people to bitch about SC related stuff , such as "cheesy tosses, cheesy tosses whinners, cheesy tosses whinner whinners, fanboys, MU imbalance bitchers, and so forth. Although it is annoying as hell.
I do not think it is acceptable to go after a person personally.
Well, it's not like I was serious...
But ok, next time I will write how only broken protoss with serious terran issues can enjoy seeing terran players whine and cry, that should be acceptable then heh.
Yeah, it will piss the shit out of me cause I play protoss, but besides that, its cool. We are all raging nerds inside.
This OSL final four has the potential to be very awesome. An OSL finals rematch, and one of two excellent ZvPers against the game's current top protoss.
But Movie has to win. If there's one player who absolutely does not belong here, it's Pure, and Pure v. Flash would be much less interesting than Movie.
On April 24 2010 04:28 pyrogenetix wrote: holy shit that was balls of steel from Kal
lol terrans all want protoss to leave them untouched until they camp and collect enough tanks that can kill everything in one volley then move out.
Terran mech works best when unit counts are high, whereas Protoss work comparably better when unit counts are low, so it's totally gay for Protoss to attack when unit counts are low.
Arbiters and High Templar are obvious exceptions, but it's totally gay to use magic in scifi.
If Terran is going to mass only two different unit types off a small number of bases, then by golly, Protoss better do the same. Anything else would be totally gay and imbalanced.
On April 24 2010 04:28 pyrogenetix wrote: holy shit that was balls of steel from Kal
lol terrans all want protoss to leave them untouched until they camp and collect enough tanks that can kill everything in one volley then move out.
Terran mech works best when unit counts are high, whereas Protoss work comparably better when unit counts are low, so it's totally gay for Protoss to attack when unit counts are low.
Arbiters and High Templar are obvious exceptions, but it's totally gay to use magic in scifi.
If Terran is going to mass only two different unit types off a small number of bases, then by golly, Protoss better do the same. Anything else would be totally gay and imbalanced.
+1
also disappointed that effort won. he would probably be one of the worst osl semifinalists in starcraft history. i mean somehow the 4 worst players in the ro16 got into the same group. even then effort barely wins after 7 hours of tiebreakers and only after bitching about his mouse
edit: dont get me wrong i like effort but hes just been absolutely terrible for a really long time
On April 24 2010 04:28 pyrogenetix wrote: holy shit that was balls of steel from Kal
lol terrans all want protoss to leave them untouched until they camp and collect enough tanks that can kill everything in one volley then move out.
Terran mech works best when unit counts are high, whereas Protoss work comparably better when unit counts are low, so it's totally gay for Protoss to attack when unit counts are low.
Arbiters and High Templar are obvious exceptions, but it's totally gay to use magic in scifi.
If Terran is going to mass only two different unit types off a small number of bases, then by golly, Protoss better do the same. Anything else would be totally gay and imbalanced.
+1
also disappointed that effort won. he would probably be one of the worst osl semifinalists in starcraft history. i mean somehow the 4 worst players in the ro16 got into the same group. even then effort barely wins after 7 hours of tiebreakers and only after bitching about his mouse
On April 24 2010 05:45 iamho wrote: haha i lovedd kal's play
On April 24 2010 05:33 Severedevil wrote:
On April 24 2010 04:28 pyrogenetix wrote: holy shit that was balls of steel from Kal
lol terrans all want protoss to leave them untouched until they camp and collect enough tanks that can kill everything in one volley then move out.
Terran mech works best when unit counts are high, whereas Protoss work comparably better when unit counts are low, so it's totally gay for Protoss to attack when unit counts are low.
Arbiters and High Templar are obvious exceptions, but it's totally gay to use magic in scifi.
If Terran is going to mass only two different unit types off a small number of bases, then by golly, Protoss better do the same. Anything else would be totally gay and imbalanced.
+1
also disappointed that effort won. he would probably be one of the worst osl semifinalists in starcraft history. i mean somehow the 4 worst players in the ro16 got into the same group. even then effort barely wins after 7 hours of tiebreakers and only after bitching about his mouse
type.b
In his OSL run type.b beat Pure 2-0, BeSt 2-1, Stork and Leta 2-1 to get to Semis.
Effort beat Firefist 2-1 and then played some poor quality games in tiebreaker to get to where he is now. Just comparing the two, I'd say type.b is much more deserving of his OSL Sems.
On April 24 2010 03:52 tree.hugger wrote: This OSL final four has the potential to be very awesome. An OSL finals rematch, and one of two excellent ZvPers against the game's current top protoss.
But Movie has to win. If there's one player who absolutely does not belong here, it's Pure, and Pure v. Flash would be much less interesting than Movie.
On April 24 2010 03:52 tree.hugger wrote: This OSL final four has the potential to be very awesome. An OSL finals rematch, and one of two excellent ZvPers against the game's current top protoss.
But Movie has to win. If there's one player who absolutely does not belong here, it's Pure, and Pure v. Flash would be much less interesting than Movie.
Pure is just as good as Movie.
Still remember that game of Pure vs ZerO, ZerO contained Pure on 2 bases HARDCORE and Pure manage to break it and win the game.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8274/osl1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/flashbaby.jpg?t=1271994340)
Flash < Eye of the Storm > ![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/moviepure.jpg?t=1271994638)
Movie < Match Point > ![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/zeroeffort.jpg?t=1271994934)
ZerO < Great Barrier Reef > ![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/forggkal.jpg?t=1271995270)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/424.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/th_575.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/th_564.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/156.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/th_174.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/581.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/th_207.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/84.jpg)
sickening.
