On February 20 2010 01:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I believe Jaedong's ZvP streak is gonna end here.
If anywhere it will definitely be here. It's incredible that JD is 21-3 in his last 24 ZvP's with all 3 losses to Stork. If he does beat Stork and Jangbi, which if he plays as well as he has been I am very confident he will, his vP ELO is going to soar crazy high.
On February 20 2010 01:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I believe Jaedong's ZvP streak is gonna end here.
If anywhere it will definitely be here. It's incredible that JD is 21-3 in his last 24 ZvP's with all 3 losses to Stork. If he does beat Stork and Jangbi, which if he plays as well as he has been I am very confident he will, his vP ELO is going to soar crazy high.
Its too bad FBH is gonna all-kill JD before he can even play protoss. Bunker rush to BC transition incoming!!!
On February 20 2010 01:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I believe Jaedong's ZvP streak is gonna end here.
If anywhere it will definitely be here. It's incredible that JD is 21-3 in his last 24 ZvP's with all 3 losses to Stork. If he does beat Stork and Jangbi, which if he plays as well as he has been I am very confident he will, his vP ELO is going to soar crazy high.
Funny how it was his worst MU and ZvZ was his best...complete opposite now.
EDIT: Holy shit any1 remember the FBH v JD rivalry? The battlecruisers and 9 hatcheries
On February 20 2010 04:13 illu wrote: I think OZ will win. I don't see anyone in KHAN that can beat Jaedong.... unless Firebathero suddenly becomes bonjwa.
I'd give great at least a 40% chance of beating JD in a zvz considering current forms and MU,
Stork has shown he is more than capable of taking games off JD in the past few months but looking at JD's current form in vP, I'd say 30%-36%.
FBH with some really creative early game aggression (must be creative as JD will expect cheese) will take it, as there is no fcking way he can beat JD in a macro standard game as of now.
I'd give Jangbi 20% at most of beating JD but a lot more (45%) if he practiced solely to snipe JD as he did vs. Effort.
Okay just for the hell of it! I want to see FBH beating Hiya and then The Dong beating FBH. THEN I WANT TO SEE STORK ALL KILL HWASEUNG OZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Tyrant have nothing on the Commander!
Hahahaha, Hiya proxied two factories and had them build vultures, FBH in the meanwhile made an add-on to his factory resulting in letting all his scvs die.
lol Jangbi being cute with that dragoon around the other side hitting those scvs. Hiya's tanks come out though and Jangbi pulls back. His third his almost up, now adding more gateways. One probe on gas?
On February 20 2010 13:42 chongu wrote: Hyuk's anti-scourge muta micro... is really Top Notch right now.... he probably played muta vs scourge UMS a MILLION TIMESSSS
On February 20 2010 13:43 gemini24 wrote: Jangbi's build looked geared to stop a timing push, but he still lost to it. Sometimes repair seems to work faster than it should.
Yeah I thought when Jangbi added five more gateways the Timing Push from Hiya would fail.
His decision making and micro showed me how wrong I was.
On February 20 2010 13:43 gemini24 wrote: Jangbi's build looked geared to stop a timing push, but he still lost to it. Sometimes repair seems to work faster than it should.
Yeah I thought when Jangbi added five more gateways the Timing Push from Hiya would fail.
His decision making and micro showed me how wrong I was.
Well Jangbi didn't have his macro kicked up yet, nor did have an observatory ready.
OK thanks affla. And thanks for the screenshots/live reports :D. Lol my game went from Stork storming lurkers outside the third to him high-fiving the Khan bench haha
On February 20 2010 15:01 roronoe wrote: scourging observers would've really helped. I think stork only had one obs there the whole time.
He had two, and Killer only killed one. Killer shouldn't have sacked all those lings in failed HT snipe attempts. And I think he was kind of fucked anyway after his earlier huge hydra army failed to do much, and Stork could just wait then counter.
well stream lags during the big battle and perfectman ends up destroyed. had to fight without reavers since he slow-crawled them from his nat. they got to the battle just in time to fire 1 scarab each and die. Stork kills PM's third base easily
stork carelessly loses his shuttle+2 reavers but kills the third again. STORM ON ALL OF PM'S UNITS, AT LEAST 10-15 CLUMPED UNITS GOT HIT FOR FULL DURATION
You know what Perfectman didn't play all that bad; nice storms, good macro/micro, and had Stork contained for a while, but in the end Stork was too good.
Or that thing where you go sair reaver, but you don't focus on harass and secure a relatively early third, then eventually overwhelm the opponent -build.
He expanded twice during that long running battle to trap Stork's not insignificant army. He made every unit count. Stop lurkers. Just brilliant control with a mixed army. How do you do that?!?
On February 20 2010 16:05 FireGuyX wrote: Stork playing too defensively, I don't know what Stork's strategy is.
Defend. Jaedong will lose the war of attrition. That last battle came out for Stork. Jaedong is now really in trouble. He needs to win a battle, and kill a base.
Other then some drone kills, Jaedong's economy has remained untouched, what the hell is Stork doing? He knows that he needs to take down some hatcheries. Now Jaedong took out the 12 o'clock expansion.
GG from JD, I love both these players, that was such a great game. Hate to see JD looking like that but great job by Stork holding on by the skin of his teeth.
Since stork was mining and JD wasn't, he would eventually have enough resources to break all of JD's bases, especially when Toss has the rather nice low-mineral-cost archons
It doesn't get more epic than that. Reminds me of Stork versus Chojja on Requiem. Amazing MUST SEE game. Thought Stork lost, then Jaedong, then stork, then jaedong. Wow
Zerg is in a terrible position if he is on equal bases with protoss for most of the game. Not even someone like Jaedong could overcome that (but he got damn close).
Basically, the one word that describe this game is STORMS. Stork would of lost this game at multiple points if not for some of the best storms i've ever seen in a starcraft game.
man that was such a close game. I think once JD won that certain battle with 6+ ultras left he should of attacked the mineral-only of stork instead of attacking 12 o clock. If he killed all the gateways and then contained stork wouldnt have anywhere to build gates
Sick, Stork got such a bad ass a-game. Can`t believe he actually won that after looking like a total noob vs JDs first 2 lings wrecking havoc in his main. Incredible game!
This game reminded me of Stork vs GGPlay on Andromeda. Such a long interesting game. That's the reason I'm a Stork fan... he can beat everyone, he can lose to anyone, but when he plays well, he plays very well.
After Jaedong killed so many probes in the beginning he should've just gone for a hydra bust. Oh well, great game and Stork's my number two player so I'm not too sad.
Stork defended with HT's so well at his 12 o'clock expo, that he was able to get just enough of an econ advantage to get the army when it counted in the end. His storms were just amazing, relentless and almost always there when he needed them.
I thought that when Jaedong finally was able to win the battle in the center and take out 12 that he had done it in time, but even with the nexus dead, Stork got every last zergling worth of his storms, and prevented Jaedong from killing his probes or shutting down his long-distance mining.
On February 20 2010 16:20 On_Slaught wrote: Zerg is in a terrible position if he is on equal bases with protoss for most of the game. Not even someone like Jaedong could overcome that (but he got damn close).
Basically, the one word that describe this game is STORMS. Stork would of lost this game at multiple points if not for some of the best storms i've ever seen in a starcraft game.
Truely an epic game between two S-class players.
The storms where just amazing. They were landing always on Jaedongs toops and dealing a huuuge damage. I'm just in awe after he game... Both players played an amazing game..
holy jesus that game was incredibly. i really thought jd had it after his dropped wiped out storks gates and he was pressuring him at 12, amazing how much that 1 gateway block & dt won the game in the end :|
What's even more amazing is that Stork has been around since forever and is still one of the best after such a long period. Can't believe how much hard work he has put in behind of this.
what are the use of the defilers against a zealot archon templar army? do they block storm or archon hits? i know zealots still own in storm. why did jaedong keep pushing that line.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
he had an entire base at his disposal. probably around 2-3k mins left at the 12 o clock. Jaedong needed to stop him from mining there, otherwise stork could do anything he wanted
On February 20 2010 16:23 frakko wrote: what are the use of the defilers against a zealot archon templar army? do they block storm or archon hits? i know zealots still own in storm. why did jaedong keep pushing that line.
On February 20 2010 16:21 FireGuyX wrote: I'm surprised Stork won without destroying any Jaedong's expansion. He could of killed the 3 o'clock or 6 o'clock expansion.
It's up to zerg to stay ahead in expansions. Protoss can just match expos and play defensively until the late-game death ball. Stork's storms allowed him to do that (and JD a-moving into storms a few times also helped).
On February 20 2010 16:23 frakko wrote: what are the use of the defilers against a zealot archon templar army? do they block storm or archon hits? i know zealots still own in storm. why did jaedong keep pushing that line.
plague makes the zlots melt. swarm makes archons only deal splash damage, which actually helps alot.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
12 was far from being mined out. So he would have busted those sunkens one way or the other. He could easily produced a big army from it and Jaedong could do nothing to prevent it. Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
OMG.... fucking epic game.... exitement every where.... non stop actions..... fucking close game..... game of the year..... stork is the only protoss who rocked today.... unlike bisu and best who failed and sucked badly..... stork even broke jaedong's zvp streak..... gosh
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
Absolutely splendiferous game! These games between top, top players do not always live up to expectations, but this one certainly did. Stork's PvZ can be so epic sometimes.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
are you trolling me?
if jaedong sits on his ass while "going for a draw and taking air dominance," stork would have mined out the entire 12 oclock base and proceed to roll him over. he could have killed jaedong simply with units if he had that sort of time, doesn't even need reavers.
Instantly epic game, very intense to the end. The kind of game you really don't want to spoil the results because it's so back and forth you never know what happens in the end...
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
Jaedong couldn't have gotten a draw -_-. Stork could have moved his reavers without a shuttle surronded by Archons and won the game.. there was at least 1000+ minerals at 12 o clock..
no just SuperArc is lol but then again it's the same guy who claims when JD uses 2 hatch ZvT, it's completely standard while it's all-in when Shine uses it haha
jd mined out 5 bases stork mined out 4 bases, the 5th of stork decided the game. Probs to both players staying cost effective in the game. In the end the gas won the match when all the mins were being used on lings
Oh my lord, the jd vs stork game was soooooo epic and intense!! DAMN, one of the best games I have ever seen easily.
Wow, just wow. This game had me on the edge of my seat, it was so back and forth, both players were literally dripping with sweat. God it was so intense, it's a must watch game!! I haven't been this excited watching a game for years, wow just wow. Maybe it's because I really wanted Stork to win vs the favorite. GO WATCH THIS GAME!!
On February 20 2010 16:25 usopsama wrote: Not even another power outage would have won Jaedong that game. Stork simply raped him apart.
Unless, of course, the power outage had occurred at the exact moment when Stork lost his main army in the center and was having the remainder of his main chewed up, in which case a Kespa referee would have promptly given the game to Jaedong... Goes to show that you shouldn't judge a game too easily.
Argh... I'm still pissed about the heater incident... and I don't even particularly like Flash.
SuperArc, JD couldn't have gotten a draw. Stork was still mining at the end (off of 12), and had units. Face it, starting about halfway through the match, stork repelled every push jd made (including both base drops and the 12 oclock drop). jd lost way too many units trying to end it with just 1a2a3a and getting them all stormed.
I think the sheer sweetness of Stork's Protoss play has overloaded and fried superarc's fragile hive mind. He can be forgiven for his lapse in logic after this game.
Anyone know why JD didn't have an ovy or anything to scout at 12 o clock? I feel that's what lost him the game, as not only did Stork sneak an expansion on a 2 player map (which from personal experience is pretty much gg) but it also let him do that drop that killed JD's buildings and a few drones in his main.
The point is that 12 had like 1000 minerals in each patch. Thats more than enough to produce huge army and roll over Zerg "Free-style" (like the game between Jaedong and Free on Athena 2 if I'm correct in MSL Fall 2008).
On February 20 2010 16:33 QuakerOats wrote: Anyone know why JD didn't have an ovy or anything to scout at 12 o clock? I feel that's what lost him the game, as not only did Stork sneak an expansion on a 2 player map (which from personal experience is pretty much gg) but it also let him do that drop that killed JD's buildings and a few drones in his main.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
are you trolling me?
if jaedong sits on his ass while "going for a draw and taking air dominance," stork would have mined out the entire 12 oclock base and proceed to roll him over. he could have killed jaedong simply with units if he had that sort of time, doesn't even need reavers.
How exactly is JD going to get air dominance when half of Stork's army are archons? Last I checked, archons shoot stuff out of the air right?
And all he had for "static defense" was four sunkens. I'm pretty sure those go down fast to a 100 pop army of 2/2/3 archon/zeal/DT
JD fans are the worst, even if he loses, they say he could go for a draw. Why cant JD fans just admit that JD can lose sometimes... not to mention Stork was a BEAST
I thought JD could have won the game after that huge battle where he finally came out ahead. If he had attacked into the natural and main where all the gates were warping in instead of 12'oclock, he could have forced stork into just having a nexus and cannons. At that point he had barely any units left, and JD could have cleaned up all the gates and all the other buildings besides those at 12'oclock. Then stork wouldn't have had any place to put down production buildings or tech even if he had a shitload of minerals.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Stork doesn't need a shuttle. He can build one reaver and walk it across the map. Or just build a scout, depending on whether his obs sees spores among the sunkens.
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
Nononono. Stork could still slowly push his way into jaedong's base with a reaver quite easily.
On February 20 2010 16:33 QuakerOats wrote: Anyone know why JD didn't have an ovy or anything to scout at 12 o clock? I feel that's what lost him the game, as not only did Stork sneak an expansion on a 2 player map (which from personal experience is pretty much gg) but it also let him do that drop that killed JD's buildings and a few drones in his main.
progamers are human too .
Yeah but that's a HUGE mistake. Especially since the observer showed he had scourge patrolling at 6 o'clock but nothing at all at 12 o'clock, lol. To me leaving an expo unscouted on a 2 player map is a noob mistake that someone like me makes (many times in fact )
What I mean is could JD have gone for a draw after he killed 12 o'clock?
That was when Jaedong still had shitload of units and minerals left. He would have played the game way differently if his objective was a draw not try to win.
He wasted too many units 1a2a3aing into storm/archons.
Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw? He had enough static defense
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left. and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Doesn't look like that's not even close to what you were saying. Regardless, you are wrong. JD did not have a lot of units after killing 12 o clock. Stork had enough to control the center, which means he could keep mining at 12 o clock while JD was about to run out. Let's not say stupid stuff like this and just try to enjoy an amazing, amazing game we just watched.
Damnit I have this habit of replying to dumb/completely wrong posts in LR threads.
Yeah have to say that this game was just amazing though. Glad I was alive for it. Can't wait for the vod. Really hope Day9 casts it. Just amazing army movement by both players.
I really hope people don't continue this thread trying to critique the mistakes of the players. Sure, as obs, we can sometimes see things a little better, but this was honestly an epic clash between two of the best SC players ever. Respect that and stop trying to be an armchair general.
Both players played brilliantly. JD did not 1a2a3a. He was constantly moving forces and constantly trying to outflank Stork. While Stork was constantly repositioning his forces to make JD have to come up a ramp or funnel through a choke to get to him. Both players were just amazing. JD couldn't just go straight for a drop on Stork's main. He needed to isolate Stork's main army in the north before he could go for that, or else he'd risk losing all control of the mid, which is NOT worth taking out Stork's main, especially when the drop itself is a gamble rather than something for sure.
Mad respect to both players. SO happy to see Stork take this one home. I was really worried for him when he lost his main army and JD was pressing up on 12. But gotdamn... Stork really knows how to take the long view on things. He made JD pay BAD for that 12 expo and scraped his shit together to have another 6-7 archon army roaming around. Just insane.
On February 20 2010 16:41 SuperArc wrote: What I mean is could JD have gone for a draw after he killed 12 o'clock?
That was when Jaedong still had shitload of units and minerals left. He would have played the game way differently if his objective was a draw not try to win.
He wasted too many units 1a2a3aing into storm/archons.
And if he still has a "shitload of units and minerals left", why the hell is he going to aim for the draw when he still has a fair chance of winning? What kind of logic is this? Might as well play for the draw two minutes into the game.
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left. and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Doesn't look like that's not even close to what you were saying. Regardless, you are wrong. JD did not have a lot of units after killing 12 o clock. Stork had enough to control the center, which means he could keep mining at 12 o clock while JD was about to run out. Let's not say stupid stuff like this and just try to enjoy an amazing, amazing game we just watched.
Damnit I have this habit of replying to dumb/completely posts in LR threads.
Fine, lets wait for the VOD. I am pretty sure JD still had many units left.
Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw? He had enough static defense
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left. and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Doesn't look like that's not even close to what you were saying. Regardless, you are wrong. JD did not have a lot of units after killing 12 o clock. Stork had enough to control the center, which means he could keep mining at 12 o clock while JD was about to run out. Let's not say stupid stuff like this and just try to enjoy an amazing, amazing game we just watched.
Damnit I have this habit of replying to dumb/completely posts in LR threads.
Fine, lets wait for the VOD. I am pretty sure JD still had many units left.
He had many units left, but he didn't have enough units to engage stork's army. from there, stork could of easily gotten a slow reaver, protect it really really well, and proceed to roll jaedong over with that. and stork had enough minerals at 12 to last him for a long time.
Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw? He had enough static defense
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left. and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Doesn't look like that's not even close to what you were saying. Regardless, you are wrong. JD did not have a lot of units after killing 12 o clock. Stork had enough to control the center, which means he could keep mining at 12 o clock while JD was about to run out. Let's not say stupid stuff like this and just try to enjoy an amazing, amazing game we just watched.
Damnit I have this habit of replying to dumb/completely posts in LR threads.
Fine, lets wait for the VOD. I am pretty sure JD still had many units left.
No, let's not. Even if JD had "many units left," that doesn't matter because he did not have enough to kill Stork's zealot/archon/HT army. Thus, JD cannot simply sit in his base while Stork continues to mine at 12 o'clock and producing more units. The 12 o'clock had a lot of minerals left.
Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw? He had enough static defense
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left. and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
Doesn't look like that's not even close to what you were saying. Regardless, you are wrong. JD did not have a lot of units after killing 12 o clock. Stork had enough to control the center, which means he could keep mining at 12 o clock while JD was about to run out. Let's not say stupid stuff like this and just try to enjoy an amazing, amazing game we just watched.
Damnit I have this habit of replying to dumb/completely posts in LR threads.
Fine, lets wait for the VOD. I am pretty sure JD still had many units left.
It literally doesn't matter when Jaedong has only 50 minerals left and Stork has ~3k. Stork can spam zealots or templar units and Jaedong can't do shit about it.
Not to mention Stork's army still had an insane amount of high templars.
On February 20 2010 16:43 PiePie wrote: JD FANBOYS. please... stop... making.. excuses... for...why...he...lost...
please shut up already about fanboy bias. I don't see anybody making excuses for why he lost, but people talking about about what JD could have done differently. Even that guy who is saying JD could have gone for a draw (which I think is bullshit) isn't saying stork didn't deserve his win or anything, nor is he making any excuses.
I'm just going to comment on the Recommended Games section since I wasn't able to watch these games live. What is the point of having "recommended games" if all the games are listed and then (in this case) games 1 and 4 say "don't"? It seriously defeats the purpose of the section. Just list the games that are really recommended.
Predictions and Results are self-explanatory; those are the TC's predictions and the outcome of the match itself. However, Recommended Games lists every game when in fact they aren't all recommended.
On February 20 2010 16:43 PiePie wrote: JD FANBOYS. please... stop... making.. excuses... for...why...he...lost...
please shut up already about fanboy bias. I don't see anybody making excuses for why he lost, but people talking about about what JD could have done differently. Even that guy who is saying JD could have gone for a draw (which I think is bullshit) isn't saying stork didn't deserve his win or anything, nor is he making any excuses.
if JD could done stuff differently, so could have stork. If you make a hypothetical game where stork did the same and rearrange JD's choices, then someone could just as easily and legitly say oh then Stork could have done this... or he coulda done this. We are observers so we see both sides with 2 crazy commentators.
On February 20 2010 16:50 TealLurker wrote: I'm just going to comment on the Recommended Games section since I wasn't able to watch these games live. What is the point of having "recommended games" if all the games are listed and then (in this case) games 1 and 4 say "don't"? It seriously defeats the purpose of the section. Just list the games that are really recommended.
Predictions and Results are self-explanatory; those are the TC's predictions and the outcome of the match itself. However, Recommended Games lists every game when in fact they aren't all recommended.
the reason why every game has a recommended section is because by putting these only for the games that are worth watching I'm going to spoil the results.
On February 20 2010 16:43 PiePie wrote: JD FANBOYS. please... stop... making.. excuses... for...why...he...lost...
please shut up already about fanboy bias. I don't see anybody making excuses for why he lost, but people talking about about what JD could have done differently. Even that guy who is saying JD could have gone for a draw (which I think is bullshit) isn't saying stork didn't deserve his win or anything, nor is he making any excuses.
if JD could done stuff differently, so could have stork. If you make a hypothetical game where stork did the same and rearrange JD's choices, then someone could easily say oh then Stork could have done this... or he coulda done this We are observers so we see both sides with 2 crazy commentators.
But you didn't show that those things are excuses.
On February 20 2010 16:55 OneOther wrote: well it's pretty retarded when someone claims that JD could have gotten a draw but instead chose to lose because he's a man, right?
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
On February 20 2010 16:55 OneOther wrote: well it's pretty retarded when someone claims that JD could have gotten a draw but instead chose to lose because he's a man, right?
When did I say JD chose to lose?
Haha it's more like you claimed JD "risked" a loss because he's a beastly man who settles for nothing less than living on the edge and taking it to his meager opponent in each and every SC match! (Afterwards he eats keyboards seasoned with nerd blood as a light snack.)
Just posting here again because this game was so epic! Damn there were so many storms omg. And after stork lost his gates in his main and rebuilt them and made a bunch of zlots, JD reacted perfectly by plaguing all the zlots and then getting lurkers to kill them all. But stork was so beast and this game was so epic damn omg this game.
I can't stop thinking about how epic this game was guys, I need to share my feelings omg GUYS WATCH THIS GAME ITS SO COOOL!!!!!!!!
On February 20 2010 16:19 SuperArc wrote: Why didnt Jaedong go for a draw?
He had enough static defense
You don't understand how weak sunkens are, and stork can just make 1 reaver 1 shuttle GG
Sunkens are damn strong against archons which was practically the only thing Stork had left.
and I dont think Stork had the tech/money to get reaver/shuttle
Dude, yes he did, he still was mining.
he was mining enough to squeeze out a few zealots and JD just needs to spam scourges with all the gas he has
just stop. there were enough minerals left to make like 4+ reavers.
cuz scarabs are so cheap? uh huh
Pretty sure JD could have gone for a draw, it just didnt cross his mind.
so what you do is you make one reaver and kill all the sunkens. did you not see how much minerals were left at the base?
If JD had gone for a draw he wouldnt have wasted his units trying to kill off Stork. He would have saved them in OLs, spam scourges to have air dominance and kill any reavers that come to kill the sunkens. If Stork moves his army to defend the reaver, kill the probes. Match Point with its narrow chokes makes static defense damn strong.
But Jaedong is not the sort of player who goes for a draw.
Yeah, Jaedong is the sort of player who tries anything to WIN.
On February 20 2010 16:55 OneOther wrote: well it's pretty retarded when someone claims that JD could have gotten a draw but instead chose to lose because he's a man, right?
When did I say JD chose to lose?
Haha it's more like you claimed JD "risked" a loss because he's a beastly man who settles for nothing less than living on the edge and taking it to his meager opponent in each and every SC match! (Afterwards he eats keyboards seasoned with nerd blood as a light snack.)
On February 20 2010 16:55 OneOther wrote: well it's pretty retarded when someone claims that JD could have gotten a draw but instead chose to lose because he's a man, right?
When did I say JD chose to lose?
You hinted it in your post suggesting that Jaedong could have gone for a draw but didn't because ~ a humble God ~ doesn't do so.
LOL ultra ling is the worst thing to hold for draw when they get stormed behind the lines easily. Unless he have enough minerals to mass sunk and mass lurkerling i dont see a draw, JD needed to attack there. Not to mention stork will rebuild his nexus on top and use reavers if jd want to play flash camper style.
This map perfectly gives p>z and t>p advantage in split map conditions. The DT block under the swarm at 12 was key, jd didnt realise it after some time only after he lost alot of units to cannon & storm at the choke. So he overpaid destroying 12.
Zergs have a hard time camping unless there's a heckuva lot of sunkens and lurkers, and even then it'll only work if the protoss is starved for scarab money. I really don't understand how a zerg is supposed to get a draw against well-funded reaver/templar with unit support.
It must have been a GG... I only caught bits of it unfortunately :p
Did I read correctly that Stork used mind control?
Each time JD loses u get a huge flood of shoulda coulda wouldas and it's like no one can ever legitly beat him because JD is too good to lose and he only loses because he makes mistakes or hes too manly >>. When he lost the ZvZ to Hyvaa, TvP to Flash in WL, now this game... (I forgot to mention many others). Arc was basically saying JD lost only because he was a man, but he didn't have to lose if he didn't want to be manly, but he is manly so he lost. That sounds like an excuse to me haha.
On February 20 2010 17:05 StorkHwaiting wrote: Fun facts:
JD lost twice to Stork in WCG before he started his ZvP 15 game winstreak.
Stork was not among any of the wins JD had during his streak.
Stork ended JD's ZvP 15 game winstreak.
JD is on a 4 game losing streak to Stork :D.
And people say that Stork's PvZ is bad :D:D
It is normally pretty average but occasionally he can show some of the best PvZ around. I think he was quite fortunate to cast some of the best storms I have seen in a progame since it was easily his storms that won him the game.
Really, I think his only issue is his early and midgame where zergs spam hydralisks and mutalisks over and over.
On February 20 2010 17:07 Djabanete wrote: Did I read correctly that Stork used mind control?
I don't think he did in this game (too busy watching KT vs SKT) but he did it against GGPlay on Andromeda (pretty boring game actually).
On February 20 2010 17:09 PiePie wrote: Each time JD loses u get a huge flood of shoulda coulda wouldas and it's like no one can ever legitly beat him because JD is too good to lose and he only loses because he makes mistakes or hes too manly >>. When he lost the ZvZ to Hyvaa, TvP to Flash in WL, now this game... (I forgot to mention many others). Arc was basically saying JD lost only because he was a man, but he didn't have to lose if he didn't want to be manly, but he is manly so he lost. That sounds like an excuse to me haha.
Lol what the hell are you talking about? So one guy (with a CJ icon, by the way) says that JD possibly could have gone for a draw and that's a "huge flood"? If you're not going to contribute anything informative please just don't post at all.
On February 20 2010 17:05 StorkHwaiting wrote: Fun facts:
JD lost twice to Stork in WCG before he started his ZvP 15 game winstreak.
Stork was not among any of the wins JD had during his streak.
Stork ended JD's ZvP 15 game winstreak.
JD is on a 4 game losing streak to Stork :D.
And people say that Stork's PvZ is bad :D:D
His pvz is bad in the sense that he look at the Long Run too much and likes to sacrifice employment for future economy sake, keeping inflation low. He dosen't care about politics to save jobs by printing money because hes the dictator. In many games, the effects of future output arrive too slow and got rolled over by zerg in the medium run. At times, when the long run effects kicked in accurately as forecasted, i think less than 3 players could outdo his policy.
On February 20 2010 17:05 StorkHwaiting wrote: Fun facts:
JD lost twice to Stork in WCG before he started his ZvP 15 game winstreak.
Stork was not among any of the wins JD had during his streak.
Stork ended JD's ZvP 15 game winstreak.
JD is on a 4 game losing streak to Stork :D.
And people say that Stork's PvZ is bad :D:D
His pvz is bad in the sense that he look at the Long Run too much and likes to sacrifice employment for future economy sake, keeping inflation low. He dosen't care about politics to save jobs by printing money because hes the dictator. In many games, the effects of future output arrive too slow and got rolled over by zerg in the medium run. At times, when the long run effects kicked in accurately as forecasted, i think less than 3 players could outdo his policy.
Im a little sad that Jangbi cant win now... he is having such a hard time, I just hope that he gets a allkill vs KT (if he beats Flash in the first game he can allkill KT).
Against all 3 of them? Wow. But I think he would've prefered winning those Starleague finals against Flash, Bisu and JD instead of having a winning record against them. Still, that's fucking awesome.
On February 20 2010 18:32 Holgerius wrote: Against all 3 of them? Wow. But I think he would've prefered winning those Starleague finals against Flash, Bisu and JD instead of having a winning record against them. Still, that's fucking awesome.
Nah, if you add international events, I think hes ahead of bisu by a game and even with jaedong. But he has a winning record against flash.
On February 20 2010 17:15 MuffinDude wrote: Look at this guys. Jaedong's last 25 zvp
That's just sick!
I must say, Stork has this really effective gay keep-away style against Jaedong, where he pretty much never engages unless necessary. And instead rely on using war of attrition, which is almost always favorable for the protoss. It's his way of making up for the ridiculous APM disadvantage he has against Jaedong.
The only mistakes Stork made in this last game were his attacks, which Jaedong pretty much destroyed with his godly control. Otherwise, his decision-making was absolutely amazing. Stork's troop movement and ability to engage on his own terms is why he's my favorite player. Truly the supreme commander.
On February 20 2010 18:51 Balfazar wrote: No this is using TLPD with no international events.
vs Bisu - 10 wins 9 losses vs Flash - 9 wins 5 losses vs JD - 8 wins 7 losses
So? Effort and Hiya are 4-0/4-1 against Stork. Yet people seem to think Stork is a better player.
Stats mean shit, only results matter.
Come back and talk when Effort and Hiya combined have the same number of medals as Stork has. Effort and Hiya haven't gotten anywhere in any league. Yet some people seem to think they're better players than Stork.
His winning record is only particularly relevant, nowadays, versus Jaedong who he seems to be the only reliable counter to. A lot of his wins vs Flash are kind of buffer worthy, like the 3-0 for third place in Daum, I think it was? (I know Iris crushed Stork and GGplay ousted Flash earlier on so I'm pretty sure it was only a pseudo relevant match for seeding purposes). That said, Stork still trades games with him better than any protoss in recent times.
Basically Stork could be the best player in the world if he hadn't given a free title to the other three. :3
On February 20 2010 17:15 MuffinDude wrote: Look at this guys. Jaedong's last 25 zvp
That's just sick!
I must say, Stork has this really effective gay keep-away style against Jaedong, where he pretty much never engages unless necessary. And instead rely on using war of attrition, which is almost always favorable for the protoss. It's his way of making up for the ridiculous APM disadvantage he has against Jaedong.
The only mistakes Stork made in this last game were his attacks, which Jaedong pretty much destroyed with his godly control. Otherwise, his decision-making was absolutely amazing. Stork's troop movement and ability to engage on his own terms is why he's my favorite player. Truly the supreme commander.
Yeah the thing I notice about Stork's PvZ is he doesn't seem to focus at all on destroying expos, he either goes straight for the kill like against Killer or he patrols his army back and forth and takes his own expos until eventually he can just roll over the Z. It's a style that depends on his great army control and isn't easily replicated.
I stopped watching STK vs. KT when Hyuk 3-killed thinking it was gg for Flash with Bisu and Best still on board.
I stopped watching Khan vs. Oz when Killer beat great thinking it was gg for Stork with 3 players including JD he had to go through. Boy was I surprised this morning. I wish to read this interview hoping for some trashtalk.
Saying that Stork is the better player just because he has winning record against the other 3 is fucking stupid. Better player and more deserved winner is about winning when it REALLY matters. Yea Stork can beat those players in proleague all he wants but from what we've seen in the past 2 years it's Jaedong's Bisu's teams who got into proleague finals. Stork can have a winning record against the big names but it's the big names who took several titles from Stork and Stork didn't even take a single one off them so you still think stork is a better player?
p/s: I respect stork as much as any of you do and I'm amazed how he has always been one of the best around but saying that hes a better player compared to the other 3 is lame just because he has a winning record against them.
On February 21 2010 06:19 lone_hydra wrote: I stopped watching STK vs. KT when Hyuk 3-killed thinking it was gg for Flash with Bisu and Best still on board.
I stopped watching Khan vs. Oz when Killer beat great thinking it was gg for Stork with 3 players including JD he had to go through. Boy was I surprised this morning. I wish to read this interview hoping for some trashtalk.
On February 21 2010 06:43 Ash wrote: Saying that Stork is the better player just because he has winning record against the other 3 is fucking stupid. Better player and more deserved winner is about winning when it REALLY matters. Yea Stork can beat those players in proleague all he wants but from what we've seen in the past 2 years it's Jaedong's Bisu's teams who got into proleague finals. Stork can have a winning record against the big names but it's the big names who took several titles from Stork and Stork didn't even take a single one off them so you still think stork is a better player?
p/s: I respect stork as much as any of you do and I'm amazed how he has always been one of the best around but saying that hes a better player compared to the other 3 is lame just because he has a winning record against them.
Well depends on how you look at PL. Hell it was a lot different just two years ago, but Khan has made a lot of "Finals" so to say, taking down oz a couple times -- as a matter of fact, even when Oz won jaedong lost. Jaedong seems to have a habit for performing poorly "when it counts" in proleague finals.
On February 21 2010 06:19 lone_hydra wrote: I stopped watching STK vs. KT when Hyuk 3-killed thinking it was gg for Flash with Bisu and Best still on board.
I stopped watching Khan vs. Oz when Killer beat great thinking it was gg for Stork with 3 players including JD he had to go through. Boy was I surprised this morning. I wish to read this interview hoping for some trashtalk.
^this guy is a irl manifestation of power outage
What? I guess I did post some silly things before. But how does that quote make me the bad guy?
On February 21 2010 06:19 lone_hydra wrote: I stopped watching STK vs. KT when Hyuk 3-killed thinking it was gg for Flash with Bisu and Best still on board.
I stopped watching Khan vs. Oz when Killer beat great thinking it was gg for Stork with 3 players including JD he had to go through. Boy was I surprised this morning. I wish to read this interview hoping for some trashtalk.
^this guy is a irl manifestation of power outage
What? I guess I did post some silly things before. But how does that quote make me the bad guy?
Lol its just a joke, I was just point out how you just called the match so early and stopped watching haha. It's not over till it's over!
This is the last game of starcraft I will ever watch live and I must say, although jaedong played well (he always does) stork was simply mentally tougher, constant prophalatic moves, strong map presence, good army compositions.
You know the toss plays good when he is behind in grades all game and is still winning battles.
This game showed storks true lategame ability. I am retiring from all live starcraft forever with the impression that stork is the strongest protoss in the world.
On February 22 2010 02:48 AttackZerg wrote: This is the last game of starcraft I will ever watch live and I must say, although jaedong played well (he always does) stork was simply mentally tougher, constant prophalatic moves, strong map presence, good army compositions.
You know the toss plays good when he is behind in grades all game and is still winning battles.
This game showed storks true lategame ability. I am retiring from all live starcraft forever with the impression that stork is the strongest protoss in the world.
Stork made this OZ fan retire! LOL
I just watched the game on wfbrood.com and even though I already read the reports and knew what happened, the game was still so epic. Commentators very energetic and yelling at everything happen all over the place and constant action for the first 30-40 mins.
I think JD got overconfident with his opening where he did so much damage he went into mid-game with 8 hatches and a ton of drones/bases. Then Stork's templar-heavy play melted all his armies over and over again.
Hoooooly shit JD vs Stork was so intense. Very action packed. damn Best game of the year so far! I think JD mismicroed his lurkers somewhat in this game, getting them in too deep in the mid game.
Something I found interesting about the game was Stork's gateway placement - from the very beginning he was building them along the left wall kind of like I've seen in Andromeda. I'm not sure if he just preferred to macro that way or he was expecting a longer game and doom drops from Jaedong?
On February 22 2010 09:26 Funnytoss wrote: Something I found interesting about the game was Stork's gateway placement - from the very beginning he was building them along the left wall kind of like I've seen in Andromeda. I'm not sure if he just preferred to macro that way or he was expecting a longer game and doom drops from Jaedong?
I liked the gateway placement too, although I think it was just for macro purposes. Mouse left, mouse down, hit the buttons, it keeps things very simple.
So after rewatching the VOD, I noticed JD did not try to go on the offensive after he took down Stork's 12 o'clock expo. In fact he retreated completely from the mid, and tried to make a last stand with lurkers/ultra/defiler at the choke near his third.
After he took Stork's 12 o'clock all he had was 2 ultras and some lings. He built 3 more ultras and some lurkers for the final fight, but his army was basically broken trying to take Stork's 12 o'clock. He didn't have hardly anything left to turtle with. Whereas Stork macroed up like 3 control of zealots, and 10 templars LOL.
On February 22 2010 09:26 Funnytoss wrote: Something I found interesting about the game was Stork's gateway placement - from the very beginning he was building them along the left wall kind of like I've seen in Andromeda. I'm not sure if he just preferred to macro that way or he was expecting a longer game and doom drops from Jaedong?
I'm pretty sure it was to protect his gateways from doom drops, yes. Jaedong did indeed conduct doom drops that killed off most of Stork's main, but his gateways were safe so he didn't have to stop producing units.
I always hate when minerals are all mined out on the map in ZvP... It breaks my heart when toss can pump out HT ridiculously and zerg can't produce anything else ;;
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
before 18 minutes: no templar sniping so a lot of hydras died
after 18 minutes: stork has half the map, late game protoss army >>>> late game zerg army on even bases
watching it for a second time it seems a bit more one-sided, still a great game though
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
before 18 minutes: no templar sniping so a lot of hydras died
after 18 minutes: stork has half the map, late game protoss army >>>> late game zerg army on even bases
watching it for a second time it seems a bit more one-sided, still a great game though
Nah. It wasn't one sided. From the beginning, stork was behind after losing so many probes to jaedong's lings, then he came back a bit and the game was pretty much dead even. Jaedong was running units into storms and stork was low on units due to the initial harassment by jaedong. Then stork gained a slight lead in army count after a bit, but fell again towards the end when jaedong completely wiped out stork's army with nice plagues and swarms. Then jaedong made a huge mistake of engaging stork's 12 when he should of gone to stork's gateways and destroyed stork's production capabilities. This gave stork time to rebuild his army and a lot of jaedong's units died engaging 12. From there, stork had the game in the bag.
And about stork's gateway placement, I think its brilliant because if jaedong drops in the main, he has to squeeze units through this small choke to get to stork's other gateways which was placed near his natural. That small choke is relatively easy to defend with storms and all that.
Stork had the most brilliant use of templar tech I've seen this year. >=[ Damn him for playing so well, it's always against Jaedong :{ . I agree with MuffinDude about all the points concerning his gateways. JD had chances to win that game, and so did Stork earlier.
On February 20 2010 16:17 Crunchums wrote: sucks for jaedong that he played on match point
Match Point
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
ZvP: 65-37 (63.7%) [ Games ]
Say what you will about blindly trusting stats but that's a pretty huge number right there. (I gotta admit more PvP's than ZvZ's played on it, though.)
edit:
I looked into this more, apparently at the MST and OST prelims Z was winning like 80% of their games or something ridiculous, but at the actual PL level it's roughly balanced ZvP, according to the stats. And in the previous MSL, it was 5-2 in P's favour. Interesting.
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
why can't people appreciate such a great instead of trying to find bad things about it? yes players make mistakes, they are humans. i just don't get it haha. personally i cover up whatever could have been better in hindsight and enjoy how well they played
ahhhhhhhhhh couldn't see this live and it sucks. Recently watched the Stork vs Jaedong vod on wfbrood and what an amazing game. Actually I'm surprised Stork didn't get reavers lategame to defend expos, instead he did a great game with his templars and storm placement.
And I agree that Storks passive management style against Jaedong to build up a momentum really works well. Jaedong did the right counters to this with doom drops but I think Stork knew it was coming and reacted accordingly. At some point I think Stork only had 2-3 gateways, and that vertical gateway placement saved him some against the drops, or else all of them had been wiped out.
Stork saved his third early imo from JD:s mixed army when he forced him withdraw from the highground outside the third. Storks trick here was too move out the narrow entrance below and so he deflected the contain and coming roll-over of the third base.
It was an OK game at most. Jaedong's failure to make mutas to snipe temps (when Stork had zero sairs) seemed like a blunder, especially as the game went on and lurkers weren't pulling their weight and storms were killing everything. At every turn, things didn't seem to go Jaedong's way (when in some cases they could have), and yet he still nearly won in the end.
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
why can't people appreciate such a great instead of trying to find bad things about it? yes players make mistakes, they are humans. i just don't get it haha. personally i cover up whatever could have been better in hindsight and enjoy how well they played
It was a good game, an epic game indeed but a great game? Jaedong played sub-par (when compared to his usual I'll-tear-your-limbs-apart self) while Stork did exactly what he had to do.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Jaedong pretty much played as well as he did during his 17 game ZvP streak. Generally he favors lurkers over mutas in ZvP anyway, as his ling/hydra/lurker/defiler army control is so fucking amazing. Plus matchpoint map favors the mass-hatch style due to its easy mineral only expansion. Stork just countered him incredibly well.
Yes, Jaedong made some questionable decisions in that game, but so did Stork. These players are awesome, but they're not going to play perfect in a 40 minute game. But in the end, Stork simply played better. He had the defensive, map-splitting strategy and it worked.
And I really don't see the point of a muta switch. Stork had gazillion cannons up half way through the game. Mutas with 0/0 upgrade isn't going to do jack while against archon/temp/cannons.
Damn, Jaedong made a tragic decision towards the end of that game that cost him.
Right around when he doom dropped the gates and took out Stork's army, he had him. Instead of taking out the rest of Stork's main and pinning him at that top expo, he went for the expo straight away and let Storky rebuild all those gateways while letting his army get ripped by cannons and storm. He may have taken out the expo eventually, but it cost him so much and gave Storky valuable time to rebuild.
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
why can't people appreciate such a great instead of trying to find bad things about it? yes players make mistakes, they are humans. i just don't get it haha. personally i cover up whatever could have been better in hindsight and enjoy how well they played
It was a good game, an epic game indeed but a great game? Jaedong played sub-par (when compared to his usual I'll-tear-your-limbs-apart self) while Stork did exactly what he had to do.
made me almost drool. The winner single handedly destroyed the opponents with ingenious play, even which a clear BO disadvantage in the mirror MU.
Jaedong played as well as he always did but Stork can simply play like a god when it comes to a later game. There is a difference between defeating some mediocre players (let's face it, there aren't many good pvz players around anymore) and the maybe best late game expert having a good day. And you fanboys should stop whining about how jaedong would have won on a different map. He had 3 maps to chose and match point is either neutral or even zerg favored.
On February 22 2010 11:37 Caos2 wrote: IMHO the Dong played a good macro game but he lost almost every single battle. Not impressed with his play at all.
why can't people appreciate such a great instead of trying to find bad things about it? yes players make mistakes, they are humans. i just don't get it haha. personally i cover up whatever could have been better in hindsight and enjoy how well they played
It was a good game, an epic game indeed but a great game? Jaedong played sub-par (when compared to his usual I'll-tear-your-limbs-apart self) while Stork did exactly what he had to do.
made me almost drool. The winner single handedly destroyed the opponents with ingenious play, even which a clear BO disadvantage in the mirror MU.
You know playing a perfect game is not the definition epic play. Its not fun when one player just gets crushed. Watch flash v jaedong on rush hour, bunch of little mistakes, resulted in a epic match between the two. Stork also made tons of mistakes during the game, so stop saying only jaedong made mistakes. One great player doesn't produce epic game, it takes two great players playing at the same level to produce epic games. Bisu, fantasy, best weren't playing nearly as good as flash was. People complain how jaedong made mistakes everywhere, I think people needed a reminder that stork made a huge mistake early on and was behind so much that of course even if jaedong makes mistake, he seems like he is winning.
You have bad taste, those games were nowhere as good as jaedong v stork.
That was a fucking amazing game! I dont know what to say more than that really, yeah they both made some mistakes and Jaedongs biggest one was when he had the game in the bag by curshing the toss army and taking out the gates and not pursuing the rest of the main base, but try to nail that hard to enter expo.
I feel for JD, but Stork played amazingly well. GG
EPT
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