• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:22
CEST 20:22
KST 03:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy19ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy3GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding6Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage BW General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The China Politics Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1887 users

[SWL] KT Rolster vs Hwaseung Oz - Page 63

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 Next
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
January 27 2010 21:53 GMT
#1241
On January 28 2010 02:15 lyhb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2010 11:53 Holgerius wrote:
On January 27 2010 11:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On January 27 2010 10:31 lyhb wrote:
On January 27 2010 03:04 11cc wrote:
On January 27 2010 02:52 SuperArc wrote:
On January 27 2010 02:42 11cc wrote:
On January 27 2010 02:40 SuperArc wrote:
On January 27 2010 02:03 Lebesgue wrote:
Fuck yeah. That's all I wanted today, Flash > Jaedong

Need to watch this game. Apparently there was a major fuck-up by Jaedong but still need to see that.


As a Flash fan you'll be disappointed by his play.


He played better than JD. Enough for me even though it wasn't as solid as usual.


Have you seen the game? If you did there's no way you can say that.


Assuming there is no luck involved the player who plays better, wins. JD played well for the whole game except that he forgot consume, but that mistake was too huge so he lost. Even if it's just one click if it's that important and game deciding, you should make sure you don't screw that up. A game can be decided by a one-click mismicro as well, like not stimming when flank comes.

That said, I think JD and Flash are of equal skill level normally.



equal? jaedong is clearly the superior player of the two


again he was winning the game but for get to research consume... and they were playing at a heavy terran favored map at that


Neither player is clearly superior and you're clearly wrong to say so.

Lyhb is a troll, I remember him from some other thread a while ago. Do not feed him.




if i were a troll i would have been banned a long time ago


the thing is i only get those comments from flash/stork fan 'girls' or people who are rocking the kt/khan symbols


ohhh the irony...
:)
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-27 22:05:25
January 27 2010 22:05 GMT
#1242
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 27 2010 22:07 GMT
#1243
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
yoshi_yoshi
Profile Joined January 2010
United States440 Posts
January 27 2010 22:09 GMT
#1244
The last 7 games don't prove much about anything, except that Flash/JD are pretty damn equal.

OSL
(1) All Flash - decisive victory
(2) Great thought-out cheese works - can't say much beyond this

MSL
(1) Flash gets greedy as he often does, skimps on turrets in main - results in JD muta beatdown
(2) JD great preparation with 3 hatch-before-pool build, gets early BO advantage. Guardians and Flash's sick drop micro turn game around for Flash
(3) Epic back-and-forth game. Again JD with 3 hatch-before-pool gets early advantage, Flash turns it around by taking out the 1-o'clock, JD turns it back around with good surround at 3-o'clock and excellent swarms at 7-o'clock.
(4) All JD - Flash a emotional mess as admitted through his post-MSL interview

WL
(1) JD again with early advantage with mutas, but possibly overexpands leaving Flash with timing opportunity. Consume misclick confuses what would have happened

The above is as unbiased as I can put it. I can't see anyone really arguing that X is dominating Y over the span of these games. JD has had the early BO advantage in many and seems to have been better at the mindgames, Flash has shown great resiliency.
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
January 27 2010 22:18 GMT
#1245
just saw the Flash jaedong game but imo jaedong over expanded.
The expansion at the 5 was a little unnecessary when he could've just expanded to the 6

Flash's MnM ball was just waaaay to big , and his irradates were very good. (got about 4-5 lurkers iirc)
cw)minsean(ru
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 27 2010 22:54 GMT
#1246
On January 28 2010 07:09 yoshi_yoshi wrote:
The last 7 games don't prove much about anything, except that Flash/JD are pretty damn equal.

OSL
(1) All Flash - decisive victory
(2) Great thought-out cheese works - can't say much beyond this

MSL
(1) Flash gets greedy as he often does, skimps on turrets in main - results in JD muta beatdown
(2) JD great preparation with 3 hatch-before-pool build, gets early BO advantage. Guardians and Flash's sick drop micro turn game around for Flash
(3) Epic back-and-forth game. Again JD with 3 hatch-before-pool gets early advantage, Flash turns it around by taking out the 1-o'clock, JD turns it back around with good surround at 3-o'clock and excellent swarms at 7-o'clock.
(4) All JD - Flash a emotional mess as admitted through his post-MSL interview

WL
(1) JD again with early advantage with mutas, but possibly overexpands leaving Flash with timing opportunity. Consume misclick confuses what would have happened

The above is as unbiased as I can put it. I can't see anyone really arguing that X is dominating Y over the span of these games. JD has had the early BO advantage in many and seems to have been better at the mindgames, Flash has shown great resiliency.

Ya, Flash raped Jaedong twice in the OSL. Jaedong raped Flash twice in MSL (Game 1 and 4). 2 games were awesome and very even (2 and 3) and they won 1 of those each. The WL game was mostly Jaedong's, but Flash capitalized perfectly on JD's mistake. I definitely agree that all these games have told us is that they're both fantastic and pretty much evenly skilled players. What swings the scale in Flash's favor is not their H2H games but 1 Gold and 1 Silver vs 1 Gold, ELO record and simply better overall seasonal stats.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
January 27 2010 23:13 GMT
#1247
On January 28 2010 06:46 Hinanawi wrote:
Isn't lyhb the genius who tried to make 'Flashtard' catch on as a term? Nobody over the age of 14 could make up something that stupid.


Yeah, it was that genius.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 28 2010 01:58 GMT
#1248
On January 28 2010 07:07 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).


I never said Jaedong was dominating flash I was just responding with Flash is not dominating Jaedong which is true although a fanboy won't see it like that (not saying you are just saying in general! ).
When I think of something else, something will go here
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 28 2010 02:16 GMT
#1249
On January 28 2010 10:58 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 07:07 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).


I never said Jaedong was dominating flash I was just responding with Flash is not dominating Jaedong which is true although a fanboy won't see it like that (not saying you are just saying in general! ).

Oh, I'm a Flash fanboy all right. :D I am however generally quite good at stepping out of my fanboyism and look at things objectively, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that Jaedong (based on all 7 games) has definitely played on Flash's level. They have both dominated each other if we look at the games individually, but altogether I would say they're even in their H2H.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Gumbo
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada807 Posts
January 28 2010 02:28 GMT
#1250
On January 28 2010 08:13 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 06:46 Hinanawi wrote:
Isn't lyhb the genius who tried to make 'Flashtard' catch on as a term? Nobody over the age of 14 could make up something that stupid.


Yeah, it was that genius.


lyhb and FireGuyX would probably become good friend.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
lyhb
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada208 Posts
January 28 2010 04:20 GMT
#1251
On January 28 2010 06:46 Hinanawi wrote:
Isn't lyhb the genius who tried to make 'Flashtard' catch on as a term? Nobody over the age of 14 could make up something that stupid.



guess it catch on the fact that you remember it...
lyhb
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada208 Posts
January 28 2010 04:21 GMT
#1252
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.



'flashtards' fail to see the bigger picture
lyhb
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada208 Posts
January 28 2010 04:24 GMT
#1253
On January 28 2010 11:16 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 10:58 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:07 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).


I never said Jaedong was dominating flash I was just responding with Flash is not dominating Jaedong which is true although a fanboy won't see it like that (not saying you are just saying in general! ).

Oh, I'm a Flash fanboy all right. :D I am however generally quite good at stepping out of my fanboyism and look at things objectively, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that Jaedong (based on all 7 games) has definitely played on Flash's level. They have both dominated each other if we look at the games individually, but altogether I would say they're even in their H2H.




you gotta remember that all the maps were heavily slanting towards terran...
TI-Nspire CAS
Profile Joined January 2010
Brunei Darussalam10 Posts
January 28 2010 04:30 GMT
#1254
On January 28 2010 13:24 lyhb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 11:16 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 10:58 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:07 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).


I never said Jaedong was dominating flash I was just responding with Flash is not dominating Jaedong which is true although a fanboy won't see it like that (not saying you are just saying in general! ).

Oh, I'm a Flash fanboy all right. :D I am however generally quite good at stepping out of my fanboyism and look at things objectively, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that Jaedong (based on all 7 games) has definitely played on Flash's level. They have both dominated each other if we look at the games individually, but altogether I would say they're even in their H2H.




you gotta remember that all the maps were heavily slanting towards terran...


What? No, only Ultimatum and Odd Eye could ever be considered slanting towards terran. Fighting Spirit and Match Point are both favouring zerg, especially the harassment component of it. No don't bring statistics into it because short term stats don't mean anything - Arcadia 2 is just proof of that.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-28 04:36:35
January 28 2010 04:35 GMT
#1255
I don't agree with lyhb, but Arcadia 2 wasn't the random variance of a small sample size that skewed the true picture. Terrans just found a better way to play the map. MP isn't zerg favored, one concept of the map does not imbalance make.
Jaedong
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
January 28 2010 04:48 GMT
#1256
On January 28 2010 13:30 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2010 13:24 lyhb wrote:
On January 28 2010 11:16 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 10:58 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:07 Holgerius wrote:
On January 28 2010 07:05 blade55555 wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:17 randombum wrote:
On January 28 2010 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:
On January 28 2010 02:39 koreasilver wrote:
Yeah, lets just conveniently omit those two games from the OSL where Flash raped the shit out of Jaedong.

Jaedong is clearly the more superior player if you look at the last five games disregarding the two where Jaedong got the shit raped out of him.

Oh wait.


Jaedong had a significant lead in the last 5 games these two have played through smart builds and aggressive and/or greedy play.

He happens to be 3-2 in those games because of a cute elevator trick and forgetting to research consume.

Anyone who thinks that Flash is playing at a higher level, or that he overall "outplayed" Flash in any of those games is simply wrong or didn't watch the games.


You are blowing Jaedong's advantage out of proportion. It simply depends on the spin you put on it. The situation can also be seen as:

Flash has been dominating Jaedong over the last 7 games they have played, going 4:3 over jaedong.

Jaedong's wins only came as the result of a lucky 2 hatch muta getting behind the imbalanced mineral's of match point, a black out where he was giving a win for a game that was not over, and the game immediately after that where flash's was defeated mentally by kespa because of the
mentioned black out.

The other 4 games however, have been complete rapes. The 2 osl games where flash just toyed with jaedong speak for themselves. The game on ultimatum was not due to "cute elevator trick", but the proper response when your opponent has built over 10 sunkens guarding his natural. Only a noob would except him to charge mnm against that many defensive structures.

Flash's most recent victory is the result of a great timing push while consume wasn't ready. Even if he had consume, his defilers were only out in time to swarm 5 lurkers and a handful of zerglings vs flash's incredibly large mnm force with 5 tanks and vessals. Flash still would have taken out top left and bottom right even if jaedong managed to save his mineral only, and then it would have been 3 base terran vs 3 base zerg which is largely in favor of terran.


lol if you have been watching the same games I have been watching flash has not been dominating over jaedong the last 7 games.

And Jaedong hasn't really been dominating Flash (4-3 in games in favour of Flash).


I never said Jaedong was dominating flash I was just responding with Flash is not dominating Jaedong which is true although a fanboy won't see it like that (not saying you are just saying in general! ).

Oh, I'm a Flash fanboy all right. :D I am however generally quite good at stepping out of my fanboyism and look at things objectively, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that Jaedong (based on all 7 games) has definitely played on Flash's level. They have both dominated each other if we look at the games individually, but altogether I would say they're even in their H2H.




you gotta remember that all the maps were heavily slanting towards terran...


What? No, only Ultimatum and Odd Eye could ever be considered slanting towards terran. Fighting Spirit and Match Point are both favouring zerg, especially the harassment component of it. No don't bring statistics into it because short term stats don't mean anything - Arcadia 2 is just proof of that.

Err. without the muta harassable naturals, ZvT on FS would just be dumb.

Lategame favors a camping terran (much like MP too) and the short distances between bases make the 3 tank push so strong especially against 3hat muta.

And Idra already covered why MP favors T in this thread.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
lyhb
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada208 Posts
January 28 2010 04:59 GMT
#1257
cant believe some people are even trying to argue that the maps are not flash/terran favored...
ColdLava
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Canada1673 Posts
January 28 2010 05:01 GMT
#1258
Just because the map is imbalanced one way or another does not mean that that imbalance contributes into every win a certain race has over another race. I don't know why map balance is even a topic of discussion about this game as Flash wasn't even close to trying to split the map in half, and the tank push Flash did was so off the normal timing because of the harassment Jaedong did beforehand, basically makes it so you can't really even consider the map when it came to that push.

Anyway, Jaedong is amazing, and Flash is amazing. I'm loving these games that they've played recently
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17733 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-28 05:30:17
January 28 2010 05:02 GMT
#1259
i have no idea what killer and jaedong's build was trying to accomplish. Fast ups, fast min only late lurker late hive late 3rd gas? Wtf explain plz.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
ColdLava
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Canada1673 Posts
January 28 2010 05:03 GMT
#1260
On January 28 2010 13:59 lyhb wrote:
cant believe some people are even trying to argue that the maps are not flash/terran favored...


Yeah, that totally won the game for Flash. Never mind Jaedong's mistake with consume, or Flash's immaculate push, or his insane macro, or Jaedong's insane harassment and timing until that push. IT'S DEFINITELY THE MAP.
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
Ro24 Group A
Hawk vs TBD
StRyKeR vs TBD
Airneanach60
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL s10 code A/B Championships
Freeedom37
Liquipedia
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season 2 - Bonus Cup 7
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 545
elazer 219
BRAT_OK 79
Ketroc 37
PattyMac 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19837
Mini 615
Shuttle 412
firebathero 242
ggaemo 212
Dewaltoss 109
Sexy 46
Soulkey 42
Rock 41
910 24
[ Show more ]
Movie 6
NaDa 3
Dota 2
qojqva4190
Fuzer 145
monkeys_forever54
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor214
Liquid`Hasu135
MindelVK17
Other Games
Grubby2604
FrodaN1619
Beastyqt752
B2W.Neo660
crisheroes233
RotterdaM86
QueenE67
Trikslyr64
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick471
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 59
• Adnapsc2 17
• OhrlRock 8
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 18
• Michael_bg 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV505
League of Legends
• Jankos1889
• TFBlade1651
Other Games
• imaqtpie883
• Shiphtur217
Upcoming Events
BSL
38m
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 38m
WardiTV Team League
16h 38m
OSC
18h 38m
BSL
1d
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
1d
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 21h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Escore
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.