• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:42
CET 15:42
KST 23:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1606 users

Flash used for ZvZ? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7465 Posts
May 01 2009 05:40 GMT
#21
strayline post the replay.

I know who that was!
ZaplinG
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3818 Posts
May 01 2009 06:12 GMT
#22
What do you think about throwing queens in the mix for some ensnare? They are fairly cheap and would certainly would help even out the mobility deficit.
Don't believe the florist when he tells you that the roses are free
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
May 01 2009 06:35 GMT
#23
if anyone can pull this off well in a game, can you please post a rep? i find that i'm pretty confined to the ling/muta/scourge style of ZvZ simply because it's the only build i've ever seen on tv.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
May 01 2009 06:37 GMT
#24
Eh.. hydra has power in large numbers, mutaling diminish power in large numbers. Depend if you can get enough
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
May 01 2009 06:46 GMT
#25
I've thought about hydras ZvZ a few times.

The first time, I realized mutas are considered small, so hydras only hit them for 5, and said fuck it.

After that, every time I consider hydras ZvZ, I can't help but think that 99.9% of progames go mutas. Never see hydras except in the extremely rare cases of 30 minute games or something. There must be a reason no progamer goes hydra instead of muta ZvZ ever.

That said you're not playing against progamers, so I'm sure if you refined a good build, you could do reasonably well with it.
Elite00fm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States548 Posts
May 01 2009 07:15 GMT
#26
if someone goes hydras in zvz off of 2 base I just take a 3rd gas and go muta/ling/lurker gg unbreakable contain while i mass expo
davidgurt
Profile Joined September 2006
United States1355 Posts
May 01 2009 07:15 GMT
#27
HI CRIM
There's crashing?
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
May 01 2009 07:46 GMT
#28
Hydras in critical mass destroy evreything Z has unless Z has swarm. As soon as you have 3.5+ groups of Hydra there is not much you can do against it, especially with upgrades its too powerful. However you can easily counter hydra by scouting Hydra tech which only works off 2 base, then removing some drones of gas, then go for mass ling with a few 3-5 muta attack and the zerg will pretty much die most of the time.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
May 01 2009 08:02 GMT
#29
Liquid.Drone is quite good at making hydras in zvz (or was).

It's very winnable but lurkers are required. Most zergs counter hydras with a shitload of lings and their mutas and that's beatable because lurkers take out any number of lings .

when you beat a hydra zerg often you either:
- out harass him and win early on.
- abuse greater mobility and win later on.

The second option requires few zerglings, just have a bunch to stab / kill ninja exps. All minerals you get left over from mutas should be invested into sunkens guarding your (extra) expand. For example you can hatch the ramp and sunk up there making it very hard to penetrate with hydra. When you have 10 sunks at your exps he basically can't attack you and the game goes into expand-all-over mode.

You can have islands whiteout defense there so getting drop to get islands is gosu. You should be able to exand more overall if you save up money for mass sunk and dont waste into useless zerglings.

This is about what l.drone said about this once and It's very true to me

Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 08:02 GMT
#30
On May 01 2009 15:35 skronch wrote:
if anyone can pull this off well in a game, can you please post a rep? i find that i'm pretty confined to the ling/muta/scourge style of ZvZ simply because it's the only build i've ever seen on tv.


Reps of this would be great to watch. I remember in a TL.net Attack episode someone went Hydra against muta on Tau Cross
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
May 01 2009 08:07 GMT
#31
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=59065

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23108&currentpage=All

Posts made in these threads by L.Drone is very good if you intend to play hydra/lurk
Swarmy
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada70 Posts
May 01 2009 08:08 GMT
#32
Going hydra can work, if your opponent has inferior economy.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
May 01 2009 08:54 GMT
#33
timing +1 push with 2 - 3 lurkers works wonders against stupid opponents
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines589 Posts
May 01 2009 11:08 GMT
#34
On May 01 2009 16:15 davidgurt wrote:
HI CRIM


lol hello dt
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
May 01 2009 11:18 GMT
#35
It works okish versus 1 hat muta since his ling count will be limited. Defend the first mutas with one spore and ~5 hydra. Attack at ~12 lings 12 hydras is a pretty good timing.
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 11:47:00
May 01 2009 11:44 GMT
#36
On May 01 2009 15:37 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Eh.. hydra has power in large numbers, mutaling diminish power in large numbers. Depend if you can get enough


Are you kidding? It's the other way around. 6 groups of mutas will kill an infinite ammount of hydras if the terrain is tight. They will die soooo much faster than the mutas. Add dark swarm and plague and you have another deal. But then cracklings should rip everything apart.
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 11:46:27
May 01 2009 11:45 GMT
#37
I can only see this working regularly against 1 hatch muta or when you 12 hatch, cause you need to have the economic lead to be sporing up.

[image loading]

On Tau cross, from gosucup 8 finals. Ptak vs chosen. I think the key was that the build wasn't scouted until he was almost at his nat.
I feel like mass lings and attacking main muta, nat zerglings would work just as well with such a drone advantage, but once he has set himself up with hive and hydra with 2 gas against 2 gas, he has the game won, as his army is way more cost effective, and he also has defilers with plague coming pretty soon.
malathion
Profile Joined March 2009
United States361 Posts
May 01 2009 13:20 GMT
#38
Lots of theorycraft ITT.

Why not try it for 20 games and report the results?
kroko
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Finland2136 Posts
May 01 2009 13:20 GMT
#39
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=68268
+
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=70721
I have Sick Timing and UnReal Macro
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
May 01 2009 13:27 GMT
#40
it works sometimes. i remember i seem few of those game in the foreign scenes and on WCG also.

this unorthodox build best to surprise someone because it work best on player that don't know how to counter it :0
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#59
WardiTV1916
OGKoka 369
Rex112
IntoTheiNu 42
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 369
Hui .297
Rex 112
Vindicta 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 14461
Rain 5249
GuemChi 1839
Sea 1818
Horang2 1625
Jaedong 1458
firebathero 393
Mini 377
Larva 297
Pusan 209
[ Show more ]
Hyun 158
PianO 157
Killer 118
Backho 82
Sea.KH 67
Mong 64
sSak 46
ToSsGirL 43
Aegong 40
JulyZerg 34
sas.Sziky 28
soO 25
Rock 17
zelot 16
scan(afreeca) 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
SilentControl 8
Terrorterran 7
Noble 7
Dota 2
Gorgc4481
qojqva2984
Dendi1150
XcaliburYe226
420jenkins169
syndereN103
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1707
oskar124
Other Games
B2W.Neo941
hiko457
Pyrionflax409
crisheroes342
Lowko275
Fuzer 229
Sick201
Liquid`LucifroN152
Mlord103
Mew2King91
Liquid`VortiX57
QueenE48
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 7
• Michael_bg 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 509
• WagamamaTV357
League of Legends
• Nemesis2595
• TFBlade524
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 18m
Replay Cast
8h 18m
WardiTV Korean Royale
21h 18m
OSC
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.