• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:38
CET 21:38
KST 05:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT24Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0226LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) How do the "codes" work in GSL? Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Tik Tok Parody about starcraft Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them?
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2608 users

Flash used for ZvZ? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7465 Posts
May 01 2009 05:40 GMT
#21
strayline post the replay.

I know who that was!
ZaplinG
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3818 Posts
May 01 2009 06:12 GMT
#22
What do you think about throwing queens in the mix for some ensnare? They are fairly cheap and would certainly would help even out the mobility deficit.
Don't believe the florist when he tells you that the roses are free
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
May 01 2009 06:35 GMT
#23
if anyone can pull this off well in a game, can you please post a rep? i find that i'm pretty confined to the ling/muta/scourge style of ZvZ simply because it's the only build i've ever seen on tv.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
May 01 2009 06:37 GMT
#24
Eh.. hydra has power in large numbers, mutaling diminish power in large numbers. Depend if you can get enough
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
May 01 2009 06:46 GMT
#25
I've thought about hydras ZvZ a few times.

The first time, I realized mutas are considered small, so hydras only hit them for 5, and said fuck it.

After that, every time I consider hydras ZvZ, I can't help but think that 99.9% of progames go mutas. Never see hydras except in the extremely rare cases of 30 minute games or something. There must be a reason no progamer goes hydra instead of muta ZvZ ever.

That said you're not playing against progamers, so I'm sure if you refined a good build, you could do reasonably well with it.
Elite00fm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States548 Posts
May 01 2009 07:15 GMT
#26
if someone goes hydras in zvz off of 2 base I just take a 3rd gas and go muta/ling/lurker gg unbreakable contain while i mass expo
davidgurt
Profile Joined September 2006
United States1355 Posts
May 01 2009 07:15 GMT
#27
HI CRIM
There's crashing?
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
May 01 2009 07:46 GMT
#28
Hydras in critical mass destroy evreything Z has unless Z has swarm. As soon as you have 3.5+ groups of Hydra there is not much you can do against it, especially with upgrades its too powerful. However you can easily counter hydra by scouting Hydra tech which only works off 2 base, then removing some drones of gas, then go for mass ling with a few 3-5 muta attack and the zerg will pretty much die most of the time.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
May 01 2009 08:02 GMT
#29
Liquid.Drone is quite good at making hydras in zvz (or was).

It's very winnable but lurkers are required. Most zergs counter hydras with a shitload of lings and their mutas and that's beatable because lurkers take out any number of lings .

when you beat a hydra zerg often you either:
- out harass him and win early on.
- abuse greater mobility and win later on.

The second option requires few zerglings, just have a bunch to stab / kill ninja exps. All minerals you get left over from mutas should be invested into sunkens guarding your (extra) expand. For example you can hatch the ramp and sunk up there making it very hard to penetrate with hydra. When you have 10 sunks at your exps he basically can't attack you and the game goes into expand-all-over mode.

You can have islands whiteout defense there so getting drop to get islands is gosu. You should be able to exand more overall if you save up money for mass sunk and dont waste into useless zerglings.

This is about what l.drone said about this once and It's very true to me

Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 08:02 GMT
#30
On May 01 2009 15:35 skronch wrote:
if anyone can pull this off well in a game, can you please post a rep? i find that i'm pretty confined to the ling/muta/scourge style of ZvZ simply because it's the only build i've ever seen on tv.


Reps of this would be great to watch. I remember in a TL.net Attack episode someone went Hydra against muta on Tau Cross
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
May 01 2009 08:07 GMT
#31
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=59065

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23108&currentpage=All

Posts made in these threads by L.Drone is very good if you intend to play hydra/lurk
Swarmy
Profile Joined July 2008
Canada70 Posts
May 01 2009 08:08 GMT
#32
Going hydra can work, if your opponent has inferior economy.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
May 01 2009 08:54 GMT
#33
timing +1 push with 2 - 3 lurkers works wonders against stupid opponents
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines596 Posts
May 01 2009 11:08 GMT
#34
On May 01 2009 16:15 davidgurt wrote:
HI CRIM


lol hello dt
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
May 01 2009 11:18 GMT
#35
It works okish versus 1 hat muta since his ling count will be limited. Defend the first mutas with one spore and ~5 hydra. Attack at ~12 lings 12 hydras is a pretty good timing.
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 11:47:00
May 01 2009 11:44 GMT
#36
On May 01 2009 15:37 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Eh.. hydra has power in large numbers, mutaling diminish power in large numbers. Depend if you can get enough


Are you kidding? It's the other way around. 6 groups of mutas will kill an infinite ammount of hydras if the terrain is tight. They will die soooo much faster than the mutas. Add dark swarm and plague and you have another deal. But then cracklings should rip everything apart.
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 11:46:27
May 01 2009 11:45 GMT
#37
I can only see this working regularly against 1 hatch muta or when you 12 hatch, cause you need to have the economic lead to be sporing up.

[image loading]

On Tau cross, from gosucup 8 finals. Ptak vs chosen. I think the key was that the build wasn't scouted until he was almost at his nat.
I feel like mass lings and attacking main muta, nat zerglings would work just as well with such a drone advantage, but once he has set himself up with hive and hydra with 2 gas against 2 gas, he has the game won, as his army is way more cost effective, and he also has defilers with plague coming pretty soon.
malathion
Profile Joined March 2009
United States362 Posts
May 01 2009 13:20 GMT
#38
Lots of theorycraft ITT.

Why not try it for 20 games and report the results?
kroko
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Finland2136 Posts
May 01 2009 13:20 GMT
#39
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=68268
+
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=70721
I have Sick Timing and UnReal Macro
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
May 01 2009 13:27 GMT
#40
it works sometimes. i remember i seem few of those game in the foreign scenes and on WCG also.

this unorthodox build best to surprise someone because it work best on player that don't know how to counter it :0
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 459
elazer 244
UpATreeSC 111
JuggernautJason30
trigger 29
ForJumy 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16570
Calm 1861
Sea 611
Mini 407
Shuttle 331
EffOrt 230
ggaemo 101
Free 52
910 20
Rock 19
[ Show more ]
Shine 16
yabsab 14
NaDa 8
Dota 2
canceldota62
League of Legends
C9.Mang0105
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2832
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu377
Khaldor189
Other Games
Grubby2770
FrodaN2495
shahzam308
RotterdaM246
ArmadaUGS128
QueenE84
Livibee39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 35
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1316
Other Games
• imaqtpie1224
• Shiphtur270
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 22m
PiG Sty Festival
12h 22m
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Escore
13h 22m
Epic.LAN
15h 22m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 12h
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
Epic.LAN
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-18
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.