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i used the searchfunktion but could find anything usefull Oo
so because i hate mutascourgeling in every zvz (and because i suck at it) i started playing hydralurk...
it was a lil bit stupid without having any BO for it, but playing instinctly i have done quite well i think (vs iccup c zergs).
but i wanted to know if there was ever a zvz hydralurk guide or some detailed buildorders for it?
playing hydralurk is such a nice thing :D
best of all is still to plague his 30 stacked mutas and see them dieng instantly to my 2-2hydras :D
or see his lings becoming little rests of blood and my 2 lurker increasing their kills 20+ :D
so post some build orders or discuss pro and contra of this build
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they second they see you went hydra, they can expo
and they'll eat your babies in your main if you try to stop them
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Upgrading to defilers would be a long process by the time you got there, he'd prboably outnumber your resources and units. You cant have alot drones without him having more zerglings and just outrunning you. Lurkers dont seem like a bad idea though, zvz nobody upgrades the speed for overlords.
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On September 09 2007 09:57 Wizard[pl] wrote:
(I'm curious)
So is this basically not viable at all?
It's viable, mainly because many players don't know how to properly react. They seem to think that since they've heard mutaling is better than hydralurk, their mutas can take the hydras head on or something, and they should just continue to mass. Doesn't work. Also, if they make a ling micro fuckup and lose all their lings to lurker spines, then they're vulnerable. So if both players play perfectly, mutaling should win, but if both make some amount of fuckups, the mutaling ones are generally more severe and game-losing.
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hydras dont really own mutas mid game..not to mention hydra/lurk is a lot gas heavier than mutaling in zvz.. when i try hydras in zvz they tend to die very easily. it's also really hard to keep up pace vs muta/ling bc they r so much faster and can attack ur workers directly. well it all comes down to what i said in the beginning..hydralurk will get owned by mutas if not lings..
i'm only talking about zvz and BEFORE late game..i dont have much zvz late game exp 
edit: hydra/lurk will get EATEN UP by mass mutas.
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In my exprerience you can play hydras only if you do some fast exp build and play defensively for pretty long while powering a bit. The idea is to make later gas than him and have one more hatchery instead in order to beat his muta/ling build.
Then when you finally move out, I think you can't afford to have lurkers. It must be a hydra army with support of the lings you made for defence. There are several reasons. There is a pretty small window where you can hurt him before hive tech (guardians) and you have no way to scout and lurk tech will delay you too long. If he choses to go mass muta you need every hydra you can get to win the fight and lurkers are wasted resources in that case. Plus he can snipe the lurkers anyway.
The problem is that you don't know if he is teching hive or just massing, so the attack timing is a gamble. A smart player will counter you with his own lurkers in which case no one can attack and you will probably both go for hive tech.
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i like 12 hatch expoing if im intending to go hydras since you need a strong mineral economy.
but then again i havent played hydras much in zvz and the games i did play it weren't vs very highly skilled opponents so i dont know.
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they second they see you went hydra, they can expo
and they'll eat your babies in your main if you try to stop them
Burrow a zergling in places you expect them to expand. Slow overlords take FOREVER, so if they haven't already started sending one to where they wanted to expand, they're screwed.
I'm not sure how huge an advantage they even get from expanding because you're powering drones so hard and you often expand before them (when I hydra/lurk zvz I always fast expand, and a lot of mutal users still go one base).
Honestly, this isn't the most effective build, but it's the funnest one and it's what I always play. You just have to really be thinking with this build, and to make sure you have good pressure with your early lings. If they make too many lings it's usually GG since you're setting up for a turtle game and they might not know it.
If your opponent doesn't expand and instead tries to catch up with 1 or 2 base Zerg, it's pretty much auto GG because 2 base Hydras MELT 2 base Mutas EZ Just make sure you get that carapace upgrade.
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the problem is that, they just put a 4 sunken wall, and use his muta mass to counter your main when you leave. Even if you mass spore, 24 mutas > 5 spores. not taking in mind they can tech and get guards, and cliff you, that is a BIG PAIN IN THE ASS. You can surprise once or twice a guy, but no more. You might even call it "cheese"
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Sunkens are bad vs hydras, but you are right that muta counters are dangerous.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
the opponent will make the unorthodox move of deliberately expoing as far away from either of you as he can, just to further exploit the fact that your hydra are slow and his muta are fast
it'll probably work in the same way that an mnm timing attack tvp will work - someone who sees it and doesn't know the proper counter will get caught with his pants down. but anyone who knows what to do should not have a big problem with it
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heres one rep of mine, we both went 12 pool but i layed 2. hatch at my nat but he in his main...i also dealed to kill some drones in his mane with my initial ling, after taht i bunkerwhored with spore sunk and went hydra... i think i had got advantage since i had my exp-hatch first... seemed to me that he responded quite bad to my unit choice, even during time my ressource amount went incredible high (1k/1k xD, i just didnt know what to do with them, it was like playing your first zvp after 1000 games zvt^^) his army didnt have had a chnace vs mine... finally when i came out i was able to contain him and to tech to defilers.
yes, for sure he reacted not that good when getting hydra/muta/ling vs hydra lurk but still seemed to be not a that bad player.
http://rapidshare.com/files/54418845/0631_AngryZergZ_FORTHESWARZ.rep.html
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If you really dont like muta, just start with all in 3 hat lings, if they sunken up alot or react in any unique way(stopping gas and just sunkening/droning for a while)then you will have 3hat and can stop making lings, have map control and can whore drone then go to mass hydra.
mass hydra is tough though. once their muta numbers get real big(15+) and you want to leave your main with hopefully 20+ hydra.. you are gonna need a good amount of spore at your main. If a map has a min only close to the nat it will benefit you to take it once your numbers get big enough that they cannot hit your main force with mutas. As has been said, watch for guards.. put up a spire for scourge if you think he might do it.
Useful faggoid tips for winning random games: wrecklessly expand if you have excess minerals. just make drones/spore. Put a hat behind a gas or something and if you can secure it for a while then use it to buy you defiler or devourer tech..
If you ever get a solid plague off on a big group of mutas it is game over for them, or at least a loss of map control. Devourer is tough to deal with as well. Superior upgrades and out-econing the muta user will only go so far.
Frankly just get random as hell. Ive had lots of long weird games vs good Zergs just because both of us are trying to outthink the other.. Shit like one player goes muta, other goes hydra-> hydra player goes defiler and muta user switches to mass lurker and defiler of his own.. eventually resulting in hydra->defiler player switching to muta and exploiting the lack of anti air. etc
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zvz is the reason that i picked protoss as my main race instead of zerg
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ye i first played zvt zvp and pvz, and i also was quite good at it but u know on a ladder where people choose in the very last second i sometimes ended up playing pvt or sth -_-
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Norway28654 Posts
I think on many maps it can be quite viable
i used to go hydra lurk or hydra queen (depending on his zergling / muta ration basically) pretty often.
but on temple (and any map with island expansion), it was possible for him to expand to both islands and just turtle like mad.. nothing i could do about that.
likewise on longinus i believe hydra lurk or hydra queen would be crappy as hell as he will be able to take third and fourth gas soo easily. and tau cross is too big and flankable for it. luna though, not a bad map for hydra lurk at all.(not great either though. it's often possible for him to stab you, guardians kill your expansions.. the pro is that it's hard for him to exp himself. ) but this is basically a really really map dependant strategy, and also, dependant on your opponent being great at countering it. the reason why it's often able to win (and I did beat some semipro koreans with it back in the day) is that many players just don't know how to play against it.
and if you actually get to the lategame stage, defiler + hydra lurker just completely destroys mutaling guardian
like plague is the best spell in the game vs muta and lurkers destroy zerglings so badly that you actually can use swarm on your hydras.
hydra lurk slaughters mutaling cost wise, it's just that a really good zerg will never fight you head on.
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could some1 post vods of pro doing it zvz?
the only good game using hydralurk i know is those zvz in the pp... (and its even not a progamer match)
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On September 09 2007 23:20 Kraekkling wrote:
could some1 post vods of pro doing it zvz?
the only good game using hydralurk i know is those zvz in the pp... (and its even not a progamer match)
Yea man but the odds of you ever getting to the level of Xiaozi and Satanik are not high, and even if you do they're still a good example of how to do it
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EPT
