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Flash used for ZvZ?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines536 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 00:58:55
May 01 2009 00:58 GMT
#1
how effective would it be for a Zerg in ZvZ to go hydras with double evos, and mass spore in a manner terrans use the flash build to almost completely negate muta harass? then later push out at 1/1 missle attack+carapace with hydras?

u'd have to make 1 sunk in front of hatch, so they don't sunk your hatch from the front, and this sunk must be protected by sproes too...

just a theory what do you guys think?
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 01:02:33
May 01 2009 01:02 GMT
#2
he would probably get run over by zerglings or mutaling in early game, but I"m not a zerg player

edit: also it lets the opponent expand at will
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
May 01 2009 01:02 GMT
#3
hydralisk builds have been used in zvz lol

ur too late :D
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
May 01 2009 01:05 GMT
#4
Terrible idea. That is never going to work, becuase you will at most be trapping yourself to 2 base. if the muta player wants they can easily expand and then they will have 3 gas. 3 gas > 2gas and they can simply out macro you.

also lest not forget the fact that hydra suck at defending min lines against muta, and every time you are going to be placing up more and more spores you are going to be hurtingyour econ. If i ever see a zerg player going hydra, i just get a den myself and upgrade lurkers. GG

So in short- no this is a stupid idea becase
a. You will be ecnomically behind too many defensive structes, and the fact that the other zerg can simply take one more expo than you
b. Muta > Hydra
c. Your upgrades wont do shit becasue the other zerg player is going to have flyer upgrades as well.

So all in all trying to make a TvZ build work for ZvZ is fail.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10827 Posts
May 01 2009 01:13 GMT
#5
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#6
hydras dont have stim bud.
if they did yes it would be viable
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines536 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#7
yes air superiority is a big thing now, so wouldn't it be wise for terrans to copy zergs and get air rather then m&m?

i find in tvz flash FE, then going wraiths with cloak to harass zerg ovies/mins and negate mutas is effective, with a quick transition to rine/med. your starport now stop making wraith and produce vessals. to me it helps terran expanding up to par with zergs, since the wraiths can keep track and hinder zerg expos, while you aren't contained.

this strat was used by ganzi to beat jaedong in one of the games this month
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#8
Have a few games trying it and let us know how it goes. 1/1 timing push could do well provided the situation is in your favor
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 01:17 GMT
#9
On May 01 2009 10:14 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
yes air superiority is a big thing now, so wouldn't it be wise for terrans to copy zergs and get air rather then m&m?

i find in tvz flash FE, then going wraiths with cloak to harass zerg ovies/mins and negate mutas is effective, with a quick transition to rine/med. your starport now stop making wraith and produce vessals. to me it helps terran expanding up to par with zergs, since the wraiths can keep track and hinder zerg expos, while you aren't contained.

this strat was used by ganzi to beat jaedong in one of the games this month


he also got Valkyries and lots of tanks later too. Perfect unit combo to counter JD
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
May 01 2009 01:25 GMT
#10
Hydralisks is a bit of a different play style. I've never thought it was naturally weak, but most zerg players don't know how to play it, they lose, and then they think "it's a weak strategy".

I'd like to see it if Satanik or Day could comment on their experience with hydralisk play.
epicdoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States489 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 01:33:59
May 01 2009 01:32 GMT
#11
On May 01 2009 10:13 LosingID8 wrote:
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]

^

He mentioned it in one of his podcasts too, from the conception of the idea to executing it into a valid strategy in general terms, it's quite good
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
May 01 2009 02:06 GMT
#12
Hydras just get raped by mutaling, same as marines without stim or medics do.
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
May 01 2009 02:07 GMT
#13
hydras dont kill mutas fast enough and they'll just mass speedlings and outexpo you

so no
the throws never bothered me anyway
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
May 01 2009 02:11 GMT
#14
On May 01 2009 10:13 LosingID8 wrote:
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]

I want replays.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
May 01 2009 02:19 GMT
#15
Day[9] Got to A or something by doing that. Plus if you dont know how to play against it (Most people dont because its almost never used) youll get raped.
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
sMi.SyMPhOnY
Profile Joined December 2006
United States226 Posts
May 01 2009 02:23 GMT
#16
theoritically it works and is indeed viable in the right circumstance.
Statisically muta ling works better, but if you want to use it once in a bo3 or bo5 it doesn't hurt to change it up a bit.

Just don't assume this is an insta win vs muta ling, this strategy plays rather on your opponents ability to adapt or some sort of advantage gained through early game.
:)
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
May 01 2009 02:27 GMT
#17
Did it.
It works.
BUT
It's pretty luck based though. You need to scout him constantly. If you see that he's going den aswell get speed ovi asap.
It works best when you can defend the 2 bases properly. The thing is you really need to scout in order to not whoring drones / spores against mass glings.
Works wonderfull against 90% of koreans zerg as they mostly go 1 hatch mutas style.
I remember when i played it in the previous season, it took many korean z off guard with hydras 1/1 and eventually 2/2 with ovi speed. Guards ? scout it, then scourge. It's not as weak as many ppl think.
Also works better on narrow paths (not to narrow though as mutas would pretty much rape them)
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
May 01 2009 03:16 GMT
#18
It can work, but Zerg players that have lost against hydralisk builds will know how to prepare against it accordingly. It works best against Zerg players that have never encountered it before.
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
May 01 2009 03:36 GMT
#19
People usually reply to this question with hydras suck, mutaling is better, etc. It's true, spire is a better opening, that's why pros almost always do it. HOWEVER. As many have said, most decent players don't know how to properly counter hydra, largely because they don't know how to play hydra themselves. I haven't seen Day use it, but I've seen several games of Satanik using hydras. You probably can't really consider Subkaiser/Tsunami because they stopped playing long before stacked mutas came around. Then again, stacked mutas are much easier to ensnare

It can definitely work, although against a very good opponent in a Bo5 you probably won't fare very well if that's the only style you're good at.
Strayline
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States330 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 15:51:52
May 01 2009 03:37 GMT
#20
I had this done to me on Medusa.

The guy got 3 bases and walled in with den/evo/sunken at his natural choke. Then got spores up and I'm honestly not sure if he ever went lair. I think he did but he could have won without it. His econ was great even vs my 12 hatch because he droned almost like it was ZvP or T and the spores at the mineral only behind his main helped a lot to defend both lines and hydras at his choke helped cover the nat. I'm pretty sure I could have overrun him at one point with mass ling if I'd known from the start what he was doing but I scouted the wrong direction and he did get enough lings himself that I went for mutas instead.

I'm a noob but I usually know what I could have done to win a game when it's over but I'm honestly not sure what I could have done differently that time except going for what would normally be a risky all in given the info I had at the time.
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