• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:48
CEST 10:48
KST 17:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
NaDa's Body Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1548 users

Flash used for ZvZ?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines578 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 00:58:55
May 01 2009 00:58 GMT
#1
how effective would it be for a Zerg in ZvZ to go hydras with double evos, and mass spore in a manner terrans use the flash build to almost completely negate muta harass? then later push out at 1/1 missle attack+carapace with hydras?

u'd have to make 1 sunk in front of hatch, so they don't sunk your hatch from the front, and this sunk must be protected by sproes too...

just a theory what do you guys think?
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 01:02:33
May 01 2009 01:02 GMT
#2
he would probably get run over by zerglings or mutaling in early game, but I"m not a zerg player

edit: also it lets the opponent expand at will
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
May 01 2009 01:02 GMT
#3
hydralisk builds have been used in zvz lol

ur too late :D
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
May 01 2009 01:05 GMT
#4
Terrible idea. That is never going to work, becuase you will at most be trapping yourself to 2 base. if the muta player wants they can easily expand and then they will have 3 gas. 3 gas > 2gas and they can simply out macro you.

also lest not forget the fact that hydra suck at defending min lines against muta, and every time you are going to be placing up more and more spores you are going to be hurtingyour econ. If i ever see a zerg player going hydra, i just get a den myself and upgrade lurkers. GG

So in short- no this is a stupid idea becase
a. You will be ecnomically behind too many defensive structes, and the fact that the other zerg can simply take one more expo than you
b. Muta > Hydra
c. Your upgrades wont do shit becasue the other zerg player is going to have flyer upgrades as well.

So all in all trying to make a TvZ build work for ZvZ is fail.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
May 01 2009 01:13 GMT
#5
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#6
hydras dont have stim bud.
if they did yes it would be viable
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines578 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#7
yes air superiority is a big thing now, so wouldn't it be wise for terrans to copy zergs and get air rather then m&m?

i find in tvz flash FE, then going wraiths with cloak to harass zerg ovies/mins and negate mutas is effective, with a quick transition to rine/med. your starport now stop making wraith and produce vessals. to me it helps terran expanding up to par with zergs, since the wraiths can keep track and hinder zerg expos, while you aren't contained.

this strat was used by ganzi to beat jaedong in one of the games this month
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 01:14 GMT
#8
Have a few games trying it and let us know how it goes. 1/1 timing push could do well provided the situation is in your favor
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
May 01 2009 01:17 GMT
#9
On May 01 2009 10:14 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
yes air superiority is a big thing now, so wouldn't it be wise for terrans to copy zergs and get air rather then m&m?

i find in tvz flash FE, then going wraiths with cloak to harass zerg ovies/mins and negate mutas is effective, with a quick transition to rine/med. your starport now stop making wraith and produce vessals. to me it helps terran expanding up to par with zergs, since the wraiths can keep track and hinder zerg expos, while you aren't contained.

this strat was used by ganzi to beat jaedong in one of the games this month


he also got Valkyries and lots of tanks later too. Perfect unit combo to counter JD
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
May 01 2009 01:25 GMT
#10
Hydralisks is a bit of a different play style. I've never thought it was naturally weak, but most zerg players don't know how to play it, they lose, and then they think "it's a weak strategy".

I'd like to see it if Satanik or Day could comment on their experience with hydralisk play.
epicdoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States489 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 01:33:59
May 01 2009 01:32 GMT
#11
On May 01 2009 10:13 LosingID8 wrote:
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]

^

He mentioned it in one of his podcasts too, from the conception of the idea to executing it into a valid strategy in general terms, it's quite good
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
May 01 2009 02:06 GMT
#12
Hydras just get raped by mutaling, same as marines without stim or medics do.
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
May 01 2009 02:07 GMT
#13
hydras dont kill mutas fast enough and they'll just mass speedlings and outexpo you

so no
the throws never bothered me anyway
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
May 01 2009 02:11 GMT
#14
On May 01 2009 10:13 LosingID8 wrote:
it works pretty well, actually.

just ask day[9]

I want replays.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
May 01 2009 02:19 GMT
#15
Day[9] Got to A or something by doing that. Plus if you dont know how to play against it (Most people dont because its almost never used) youll get raped.
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
sMi.SyMPhOnY
Profile Joined December 2006
United States226 Posts
May 01 2009 02:23 GMT
#16
theoritically it works and is indeed viable in the right circumstance.
Statisically muta ling works better, but if you want to use it once in a bo3 or bo5 it doesn't hurt to change it up a bit.

Just don't assume this is an insta win vs muta ling, this strategy plays rather on your opponents ability to adapt or some sort of advantage gained through early game.
:)
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
May 01 2009 02:27 GMT
#17
Did it.
It works.
BUT
It's pretty luck based though. You need to scout him constantly. If you see that he's going den aswell get speed ovi asap.
It works best when you can defend the 2 bases properly. The thing is you really need to scout in order to not whoring drones / spores against mass glings.
Works wonderfull against 90% of koreans zerg as they mostly go 1 hatch mutas style.
I remember when i played it in the previous season, it took many korean z off guard with hydras 1/1 and eventually 2/2 with ovi speed. Guards ? scout it, then scourge. It's not as weak as many ppl think.
Also works better on narrow paths (not to narrow though as mutas would pretty much rape them)
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
May 01 2009 03:16 GMT
#18
It can work, but Zerg players that have lost against hydralisk builds will know how to prepare against it accordingly. It works best against Zerg players that have never encountered it before.
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
May 01 2009 03:36 GMT
#19
People usually reply to this question with hydras suck, mutaling is better, etc. It's true, spire is a better opening, that's why pros almost always do it. HOWEVER. As many have said, most decent players don't know how to properly counter hydra, largely because they don't know how to play hydra themselves. I haven't seen Day use it, but I've seen several games of Satanik using hydras. You probably can't really consider Subkaiser/Tsunami because they stopped playing long before stacked mutas came around. Then again, stacked mutas are much easier to ensnare

It can definitely work, although against a very good opponent in a Bo5 you probably won't fare very well if that's the only style you're good at.
Strayline
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States330 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-01 15:51:52
May 01 2009 03:37 GMT
#20
I had this done to me on Medusa.

The guy got 3 bases and walled in with den/evo/sunken at his natural choke. Then got spores up and I'm honestly not sure if he ever went lair. I think he did but he could have won without it. His econ was great even vs my 12 hatch because he droned almost like it was ZvP or T and the spores at the mineral only behind his main helped a lot to defend both lines and hydras at his choke helped cover the nat. I'm pretty sure I could have overrun him at one point with mass ling if I'd known from the start what he was doing but I scouted the wrong direction and he did get enough lings himself that I went for mutas instead.

I'm a noob but I usually know what I could have done to win a game when it's over but I'm honestly not sure what I could have done differently that time except going for what would normally be a risky all in given the info I had at the time.
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech73
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2487
Bisu 476
Dewaltoss 72
sorry 58
ToSsGirL 53
JulyZerg 48
HiyA 37
Nal_rA 29
Sharp 23
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
[ Show more ]
SilentControl 10
Free 9
soO 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe175
boxi98147
NeuroSwarm123
League of Legends
JimRising 422
Counter-Strike
olofmeister748
shoxiejesuss600
Stewie2K518
allub144
Other Games
XaKoH 145
Trikslyr13
trigger2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick611
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 40
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 21
• Light_VIP 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos981
• Stunt669
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h 12m
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
Map Test Tournament
2h 12m
The PondCast
4h 12m
RSL Revival
1d 1h
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 18h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 23h
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.