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On May 17 2009 04:30 dhe95 wrote:
Simple question with an answer that may not be so simple: How do you control 100 rines lategame?
Usually I have one main army in the lategame consisting of about 20-30 rines +tanks and vessels while i keep the rest of my marines at other locations for multitasking. I only hotkey my main army and control the others by just clicking.
If you face a really big army and you need to have all your units together for a big battle, i suggest having m&m on 1 2 3 4 but if you want even bigger than that, keep the rest of the marines out of hotkeys and control them manually.
I've never ever had to control an army of 100 marines in my life, so I don't think you have to worry about that problem though.
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@ reply (thanks)
I did the siege expand on destination. Two tanks and 1 rine. I sieged up on the cliff but goons can hide out of range of the tanks and yet in range of the cc location. Eventually I can get the expo, probably after my 4th tank (I move some down and float the rax over them). If he is going more goons then I find it hard because he can often come it and snipe the tanks on the groundand back off. Whilst I deal damage its not enough to make up for lost mining at an expo.
Other times, Im just about to put up turrets when a DT arrives and sits where I would want to land the cc. I can slowly turret crawl to the DT but this takes much time.
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Muff2n:
Scenario 1
- Protoss 1gate range.
This preassure will not be enough to hold you back from floating the CC down directly upon its finnish. 1tank on cliff and one unsieged tank below to push him away from your expansion. Micro the tank below back and forth and he won't dare to snipe it because the tank on cliff will fire at him.
If you're in a position where the tank on the cliff wont protect the tank on the ground, siege up the second tank on the ramp or just below and protect with SCVs if you have to.
If you don't know what his tech is after this you must place turrets immediately when you land your CC. Place one on the cliff and one on the ground.
Reason:
1gate will not support enough goons to break you and with 1gate he can either tech fast to DT/Reaver or he can take double expansion very fast and you cannot afford to delay economy.
Scenario 2
- Protoss 2Gate range.
This will force you to make a bunch of SCVs from your CC before you can lift it. Stay behind the wallin with sieged tanks to defend his preassure and wait for 3-4 tanks before you float the CC down. Place turrets when you move down if you don't know his tech and place a turret on the cliff before that, close to the cliff so it will cover some area below aswell.
Reason:
2Gate goon will set the protoss back economically. He will be able to preassure you in the beginning but your eco will still be ahead because you have 2 CCs pumping SCVs and when you float down, the only way he can catch up economically is to take double expansions.
Either he does that or he will try to bulldog you or tech to something fast on 2 bases.
Always remember to float both rax and ebay down to make a semiwall at your expansion a few seconds before you move down. This will make it harder for him to break you. Also remember that SCVs are very stron protectors in the beginning vs goons.
edit: Added to FAQ, under TvP FlashStrat.
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With the FlashStrat, you say siege up your big army as soon as you seem them move in.. is there a time where you slow push and leapfrog the tanks forward instead? After the first 'big battle'?
Also, is this the same with 4/5/6 fac pushes? Do you only siege up when you see him about to move in or do you slowly push?
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United States4126 Posts
Haha, that's a hilarious banner :D
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Hundredth:
Usually with the flashstrat, you dont leapfrog after the initial big battle.
You will most likely get defeated or defeat the protoss army almost entirely and then you need to attack asap before he can macro up again since protoss will most likely be on 4+ bases by that time and his arbiters is always getting energy.
With the 4/5/6 pushes its too situational to generalize. Usually they include alot more leapfrogging than the Flashstrat though.
Kinky:
Haha yeah I think so too.
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Thanks so much for the advice; its really helpful. There is one final problem that is giving me grief and that’s early game v proxy toss. The map Im playing a lot atm is destination.
Sometimes when a protoss pylon blocks my wall, it blocks my scvs from my ramp and hence I cannot block my ramp with 3 scvs and build some marines – I get screwed. Its all really difficult and he can sometimes cancel and rebuild, etc. What should I do in this situation?
When zealots do get inside your base, how should I react with my scvs? I don’t really know any micro tricks and have no idea if I should try to run the red hp ones and continue mining or if I should attack.
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Just wanted to say epic lulz on the banner ahahahaha
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ugh im having trouble playing tvp on destination..im not sure wat build to open with and how to expo (which expos better to take) and how to engage protoss army because of the bridges.And also when i got half of the map and so does protoss or maybe 1more i dont know how to kill them off because protoss keeps moving around the whole map.Any sugestions how to play on desetination?flash bo?push up from 6 to 12 to expo @ 2?and opposite from 12?any suggestions?T_T
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United States4126 Posts
Hey Stylish, I'm having some trouble when I'm playing against Zerg. In a game I just played, I scouted that my opponent was doing 2hatch mutas so I tried to do a 2rax sunken break. The Zerg player reacted by placing ~7 sunkens up so I left my army outside his nat to contain him, but he went into my base with his mutas,killed all my turrets (I had 3 next to eachother  ) and raped the rest of my army.
How should I have reacted properly to this?
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Muff2n:
If you wallin properly on destination, protoss cannot break the wall with a pylon.
This is how you wall(My screenshots all end up black can someone help me?):
- @11: Suply and barracks at the same vertical line at the left edge of the buildings.
- @5: Suply and barracks at the same vertical line at the right edge of the buildings.
In both cases the first suply should be placed at the normal position, whereas the barracks is placed one step to the right or left of the obvious spot.
In both cases, the protoss cannot block the location of the second suply with 1 pylon, there will be room for one suply on either the left or the right side of the pylon to complete the wall.
If the probe is blocking the path between pylon and suply press on the small mineralpatch outside your base to float through the probe.
If you decide not to wallin, place buildings in simcity-mode making it hard for zealots to walk through. You can find information about that in the TvP general tips VOD.
ZzZzAnG:
I will look into this, I haven't watched the latest trend of tvp on destination.
I would recommend some sort of 4fact push, FE 3Fact, Dropstrat and 5factpush works sometimes aswell. Flash uses 3exp with one fact into flashstrat here aswell but I think its a pretty hard style to play.
Remember that when you're pushing you want to push to his third and use the cliffs to your advantage, leapfrogging close to the cliffs with your tanks.
If you're playing agressive its good to sometimes sneak 1-2 tanks around the map behind his natural and siege up there and scan his natural while you're pushing at the same time on another location.
I will come back to the question of how to break the bridges later I don't have time right now.
Kinky:
2rax sunkenbreak on 1 base is generally not a good build. He countered it by taking the expansion and making enough sunkens to protect himself. This will leave him with a better econ for the lategame and you will have trouble.
If you want to do an early break and you notice that he's defending it properly. Scan his base and be sure of what he does. If he makes mutalisks, dont contain him. If he makes lurkers, contain him.
Vs mutalisks; go back to your base tech to vessels or take your expansion and go from there.
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On May 21 2009 21:40 StylishVODs wrote:
Kinky:
2rax sunkenbreak on 1 base is not a good build.
Well, if you manage to prevent him from scouting it you can get a super easy free win, and it's not nearly as all-in as for instance proxy BBS. Hwasin vs Hyvaa in OSL a couple of days ago is a good example of how neat it can be. It is of course inherently weaker than a FE if you fail with breaking his sunken line, but it's good to mix things up sometimes.
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Yeah, ofcourse it can be good sometimes. I forgot to put a "generally" in my sentance.
I would rather mix in an A-yu-mi or something like that if I want to sunkenbreak.
Its not an all-in but will give you a disadvantegous position if he sees it.
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On May 22 2009 01:25 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah, ofcourse it can be good sometimes. I forgot to put a "generally" in my sentance.
I would rather mix in an A-yu-mi or something like that if I want to sunkenbreak.
Its not an all-in but will give you a disadvategous position if he sees it.
Once you add that ''generally'' we have an agreement. 
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I did
I do recommend doing 2rax strats vs 9pool speed though.
Even if he sunks up his expansion you're pretty even economically if you take your CC abit after you move out.
The good thing with builds such as the a-yu-mi is that even if he sunks up like crazy, which he has to in order to survive, his mutas will be delayed and his economy will be lowered and from there you will basically be even in economy since you have cut 3 rounds of scvs to do the build.
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With the TvT build, how do you react to fac/port or 2 port builds? Obviously as soon as you see it you put down an armory and academy, but do you continue with containing with vultures and focus on vult/tank? Or do you start playing gol/tank?
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Hundredth:
vs 2port builds you would need ebay, focus on economy and then switch to tankgol.
vs 1fac 1port you would need armory acad(if cloak) and mix in a goliath and keep making vultures for mapcontrol. Since your opponent is on 1 base he will fall behind exponentially being one expansion behind.
If he's doing a fac port build he will try to move out with 4-5 marines 2+ tanks to make a push fast and you'll need to research mines before speed here. Make a minefield and try to sneak past him or snipe the marines. If you're able to snipe his marines you can kill his tanks with scvs and if you can sneak to his base you will kill lots of scvs/place mines outside factory.
Once you gain mapcontrol (10+vultures imo) I'd suggest that you contain him while you're still on two bases, switch to tank/gol and take the third base alittle later. Beware for drops if you got the contain up.
This is what I believe to be true but I cannot say with 100% certainty since I'm not that good at the matchup yet.
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On May 21 2009 21:40 StylishVODs wrote:This is how you wall(My screenshots all end up black can someone help me?):
If you press printscreen in SC the game saves it as a pcx file in the main SC folder. You need a program like Irfanview to see pcx files and convert them into something else.
If you press print screen and copy paste in paint you get a black screen, if you are doing what I described above I have no idea what to do unfortunately. I hope that helped.
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United States187 Posts
Can you describe the build order that Hwasin used against Hyvaa here?
He got his tech up so fast but kept up early pressure and the zerg just seemed powerless to do anything besides sunken up as Hwasin took an easy expansion. It seems incredibly effective and well thought out.
I'd appreciate it, even if it's just an approximation. Thanks a lot in advance.
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EPT
