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Zekk:
Your question is actually more about timingpushes than factories.
You can find answers to your question under, TvP -> General -> "What are the different pushes good for?"
Generally, 4fact vs greedy toss, 5 fact vs normaltoss specially when reaveropening, 6fact vs normal toss and unitheavy/nongreedy toss.
To keep up with the protoss macro in the lategame, in a situation where you both have NO units and start to remacro it depends on the number of machineshops and is really hard to generalize. But for a terran its really good to be able to have about the same ammount of factories as the protoss has gateways, and good enough with slightly fewer factories.
In a situation where you have already built up a decent tankbase and you don't lose them all in the big clash you don't need as many factories and can have 2/3 the ammount of gateways but its really hard to generalize.
The best generalization I can give is;
Protoss generally needs 1 more base than terran.
This will give him the oppertunity to have more macrobuildings since he has more economy.
X-base terran vs X+1-base toss is playable from both sides, with slight advantage for the toss when X is low. Therefor its also ok to have enough factories that X bases can suply vs the gateways X+1 bases can supply for the protoss.
1 base terran can suply 2 factories with machineshops or 3 factories with vultures.
2 base terran can support 6 factories max.
3 base terran can support about 9-10 factories depending on how fast you take it.
4 base terran can generally not support more than 10 factories because one base should be mined out, but if you have 4 bases running i think you can have something like 15++ factories.
Good luck!
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Hey
How do I protect my expos in TvP?
I always find it hard when I'm playing and then the protoss suddenly appears on my 3rd with a reaver or a bunch of zealots and kills everything there...
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EsX_Raptor:
Terran cannot defend expansions vs protoss in general, thats why the matchup is played the way it is.
You need to have your expansions clutched together as close as possible while it is the protoss job to expand over the map.
Terran should not split up his units in the early midgame and still be able to defend all bases, which are usually 2 3 or 4 on some maps.
The best way to not let protoss attack vulnerable positions that are not covered by your units with a reaver or such is to use turrets and mines properly.
Protoss units are more mobile than terran units with the exeption of vultures, therefor laying minefields is the only way to slow down a protoss attack until you can get there to defend with more units.
So to answer your question.
In early game, use turrets and mines to protect areas that you cannot get to fast enough with your units that should be kind of clutched together at a strategic location to cover big attacks on your bases.
In lategame, when having to take expansions further away from your main base, use minefields to cover the area that protoss units have to run past to get to your expansion. This will give you time to defend it. Also use turrets to defend vs drops and you can place a few tanks and vults but not that many to defend vs stray zealots or whatever that would sneak through.
Also try to take expansions that are in a location that might be covered by your push.
If you're making a push, your macro and minefields is what will help you defend possible counters. If you keep your macro up there is a big chance that tanks+mines will be able to defend a possible counter, and if the counter is too big this will still give you time to reinforce with units from the push.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On April 26 2009 22:15 unknown.sam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2009 17:16 SilverskY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I believe the # of factories you have should be dependent on YOUR economy, not the Protoss's. Just because the protoss has like 4 bases, doesn't mean you can run like 12 facs efficiently off of 2 bases.
im pretty sure you can run 6 facts pretty easily off 2 bases and 9 facts off 3 bases...
I know that. I never said you can't in my post. :S
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When should you get armory+acad in relation to a timing push, and is different for each one ie 4 fact 6 fact etc.
Also, when going for a 2/1 max push when is the proper timing to get starport and 2nd armor?
Thanks in advance!
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Tnx a great deal for adding on new question to the faq stylish!
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On the TvZ 2 Port wraith:
Why do you proxy the factory?
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Russian Federation6 Posts
Stylish, I always having problems with the Wall building. are there any guides that u made about it? i'm sorry if someone asked u about that, but your threds are sooo huge and i'm not able to read all that. So if this kind of thing exists please give me the link. And if its not then will u make a some kind of VOD about that, later ofcource? And by the way sorry for my stupidnes, i alredy asked this question and did not understand, umm where I can find your new VODs? All that I watched is that 38 pack of VODs... and thats all)) So if it is not hard please help me in this too)) Oke. hope u'll answear my questions)) Thank u for all that u are doing tor Terrans of all over the world, and sorry for my english))
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On April 29 2009 09:40 Muff2n wrote:
On the TvZ 2 Port wraith:
Why do you proxy the factory?
Becuase he can. Have a factory closer to the enemy with less travel distand, making them coming earlier. Besides even if Z finds it he can still just fly away and he's going Wraiths anyway so u wont be using the fac for a while. Ain't that right Styl?
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LaLaBye:
Yes its usually different for each build and for what the protoss does.
In all my builds I show when I usually get armory and academy.
Academy has 3 major perposes.
- Detect DTs - so you can kill them.
- Scan for buildings or expansions - so you can chose a build/pushtime.
- Support the push with vision - so you can detect dts and know where the protoss units are.
So basically, if you need detection for a dtrush academy should be places very fast, however usually you place an EBay instead.
If you want to know what kind of push you should do or when to move out, the scan should be up while making the factories.
If you want to have scan when you move out with units, the scan should be up when you move out with your troops.
The armory servers 2 major purposes.
- Upgrading units - combined with a timing push or just for better outcome in the later battles.
- Getting goliaths - vs air units.
If you think you'll need a couple of goliaths with your initial push due to possible shuttleaction, it might be a good idea to get armory fast enough so you can have about 2 goliaths in your initial push.
If you're getting an armory, its almost always worth it to start the upgrade even if it wont be ready for the first push.
If you mean to time the upgrades to a push you should get it fast enough so it will give you the upgrade once you move out, in many cases this is before you make the second factory.
Muff2n:
There are several reasons to proxy and not proxy a factory.
Pros:
- Units will arrive faster to your opponent.
- Factory might not get detected, units might not be spotted, opponent might be surprised.
- Close distance if you want to float it towards your opponents base.
- You don't have to lift the barrack when you move out with factoryunits.
Cons:
- Scv might get spotted, drone can kill the scv.
- Slightly lower economy due to one scv not mining while moving towards a location.
- Factory will have to float far if you're going to use it in the later game.
Yes ZeKk you are correct. I usually find the pros > cons when making this build. But I don't always proxy it.
Pr0v0kat0r:
Use the link dead9 gave you:
Wall guide thread
I haven't looked at all the positions but many of them seem fine vs protoss.
If you're looking for wallins vs zerg you will sometimes need lingproof walls. I have no guide for that yet, I might put it up later but for now, best thing might be to watch how the progamers do it.
Watch alot of Fantasy-VODs he usually makes a wall.
I hope this helps. Gl hf!
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Pr0v0kat0r:
You can find links to all VODs in the opening post in this thread.
Click on the spoilers and chose any VOD you might want to see.
I don't know how many there are now, I guess like 40 because I cannot make more at the moment, my computer has a virus.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
OK Thank u vary much Dead9 and Stylish for walling Faq i havent seen that. About VODs, The main spoiler is called Terran FAQ after that goes Introduction / General then>>TvZ then>>TvP and under this spoilers there are only Faqs but not the VODs! And another spiler tha i c is called Last Update 04-27-09. I'm varry sorry for those stupid questions i really feel myself like a jerk but i really want to see your VODs!
OMG i'm so sorry for annoyng! I finaly find them in your another thred!  i'm vary sorry for my brainfuck)) Again thank u guys. i'll go practicing.
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Heh ok, you have to click on Stylish's FPVods in the opening post of this thread to get to the actual VOD thread. :D gl hf
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Don't you think that the armory/academy has the amazing strength to kill observers? To me thats the best thing ever. 2 goliaths and a scan can take out 1 to 2 observers. Every race has a good/unique scouting pro. If you take protoss' vision away then they are forced to make blind judgments and will run into more mines. (although at my level I feel it is better to turret up my bases perimeter to ward off reavers. observers and 4 dt drops. Most people cant look at army composition and tell how many factories you have so the obs aren't that great without base vision.)
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wow, this is absolutely incredible stylish, thanks!
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It's pretty funny. I try to improve my Z by watching Vods and replays and studying them, but this post alone pretty much makes me offrace as T almost as well as I would play my main race (with which i've got tons more practice).
Always happy to see updates on this page! Thanks a bunch
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Thnx guys!
Hammy you should switch to terran and check out my FPVOD thread aswell, haha^^
Bebop Berserker:
Yes, taking out observers is really good and underused by foreigners today.
You usually will benefit the most if you take out observers at specific locations/situations.
Here is some examples:
- Kill observer(s) over your factories - This will put the protoss in the dark and he will not know what build you're using.
- Shoot down the observer outside your natural before moving out - Protoss will not know when you move out or how many units you have.
- Snipe observers at your push - This will force protoss to delay his attack or suffer a cruel death to vulturemines.
Think of these things if you have scan + goliaths. But never use a scan if its your last detection and you don't know if he has dts.
This is also why vessels are good, not only for their EMP.
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Hi stylish, where can I find the buildorder for the "siege expand" strat? What strat do you recommend for a beginner? Thx in advance!
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Thanks for the reply. 2nd Q:
What to do v a P who gas steals you? I know to build my own refinery when a robe comes near but Im still nub enough that I fail sometimes. I have seen the other threads but want to hear your voice xD. Some people have said to grab scv and charge if it is short position, if so, would you leave enough (say 2) to afford a constant amount of rines/a bunker?
Thanks again.
-Also I notice there is no BO for the TvP drop. Would you like me to watch your vod and record the BO?
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EPT
