EPT! [G] Terran FAQ - Page 7
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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LaLaBye
United States90 Posts
Also, For 2 Hatch Muta, how do you fend off muta attacks in your main, and then watch out for some sort of all in Muta+Ling attack at your natural choke? How should you react to a zerg that does an extremely fast Lair build, even before he gets speed, and does a gas before pool build, and you've already started a 1 barrack into command center. Should you just add on a few more rax and do a push? His muta's pop extremely early, almost 1 minute after my natural is up and I have maybe barely 1 control group of marines and 3 medics to run around my base. Thanks in advance for all the help! | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Leaf_SD: Your questions is answered in the FAQ in this thread. + Show Spoiler + How do I counter 2 hatch lurks (Fast Expand and/or quick Hive) + Show Spoiler + 2Hatch lurk usually means all-in at the front or drop in main and natural at the same time. Therefore you have to make 2 medics and then 2 bats and move outside zergs natural for a while to force him to make sunkens. Then draw back after you've delayed the lurkers for a little while and build 2 bunkers at home. When moving out with the first 10marines 2bats and 2medics, bring 1 scv also to scout expansions. If he has one you will be able to kill it with this initial troop. When you have 6 marines use an scv to scout towards his natural. If you see him getting speed before the scv dies with his lings you will have to be aware of a ling break. I usually make a bunker for this, keep my units in my ramp and be ready to pull scvs. Continue with the 9minpush build, but when the star ort is finished i make a second factory and science facility at the same time, i skip second ebay and also the first upgrade should be armor and not attack. The 100 gas that was meant for +1 attack in the second ebay will now go into the factory. Don’t make a drop ship, 2hatch lurker is aggressive build, you cannot afford leaving your base this early. Add rax for a total of 4 rax, 2fact 1 port and remember to keep some units in your main awaiting lurker drop, but close enough to the natural that you can siege up on the cliff. Also remember that you only need 1 vessel. After that i usually make a drop ship and pretty much use my gas to make tanks. Once the vessel is out you can scan, since if its not out you need all energy to scan drops and whatnot, his base and see if he's going hive or if he's trying to macro up. The important thing to know is that once you've defended the early attack or drop, you are ahead, specially with 2 factories making tanks, so you don't have to be hasty. Move out when you feel comfortable doing so, for example with 6+tanks. Always time your attack if you see him teching to hive. You know approximately how long it will take for your troops to arrive at his base. Aslong as you get there before his consume is finished its always good to have the largest amount of tanks you can have and still make it in time. If he's not teching to hive, you can very well wait for 8+ tanks or whatever because you have a more economical opening if he 2hatches and will only get further and further ahead as the game goes on. One important thing is, that you probably need to add atleast 2 bunkers pretty early on in your expansion vs a 2hatch lurkerbuild. This, and also as soon as you notice a drop coming, be prepared that he will most likely drop both main and expansion at the same time. Zekie: I'm sorry I will not be able to record a VOD of that build since I have this virus. However the build is not that hard. You simply take your expansion with 1 rax and then add refinary and academy after the third suply and then research stim and cut scvs to be able to make 4 more barracks. Keep cutting scvs and build suply and marines/medics from all barracks and attack at like 7:30. The attack is slower than the ayumubuild but also you have more marines and will have range. You can build some turrets in your main after you move out but he will most likely have to go back with mutalisks to prevent getting stopmed. Good luck. ZzZzang: Fast arbiters is a good build and you can watch oysteins vods to know an appropriate dtdrop timing and learn from that. The thing is to place your turrets at locations that covers the important stuff and be ready for a drop. If you succeed in killing or defending from the dts you can either get scans and get a fast third to go lategame or you can use vultures with mines/speed faster than usual to move out and lay mines because he will most likely lack observers if he's going a 2base arbiterbuild. Lay some minefields and try to harass him with the vultures and at the same time move your tanks and scvs to the push area while you distract him with the vultures. If you get up a contain with mines tanks and a turret or two he will be in big trouble. Best thing is doing this with 4 factories i believe, because its faster and the contain needs to be up before the first arbiter pops. From there push slow and careful until you reach the nexus and take it out. Gl. nozaro32: Usually if the zerg has 4bases ultratech and you have two bases you're going to lose the game and you need to either preassure him more so that he cannot get 4base utlratech or expand faster yourself so you're on 3 bases. So lets discuss the two different scenarios. 2base terran vs 3base zerg lategame. Zerg is going to tech to hive and try to expand one more time. What you need to do here is to put constand preassure on his different bases and try to sneak in a drop here and there to force him to produce constant units and therefor he cannot tech to ultralisks. In this case you will need 8+ rax and 2starport vessel/dropship action. If you at any point notice that you wont be able to stop him from securing a 4th base you need to take a third yourself and either add a second factory and start producing tanks if you mean to be defensive for a while before moving out or add a third starport (if the expansion has gas) and definately 3-4 more barracks if you're going to be offensive. 3base terran vs 4base zerg(ultratech usually) Since my playstyle is very agressive, I'd rather add a third starport to make vessels and keep constant preassure. This way you will most likely irradiate his ultralisks far from your base and the action will take place far away from your expansions. Be sure to use the lone factory to make vultures/mines aswell and always send scvs out in different directions to scout any possible small group of zergunits with a defiler heading towards your expansions. If you are more of a defensive player you should rather make a second factory and sometimes even a third, specially if you only have 1 starport already. 2-3fact tanks are able to defend vs ultrlisks pretty well and when you make a move with 10+ tanks you are going to be quite strong vs any groundunits. The reason why you cannot make vessles without tanks if you are a defensive player is that you cannot affort irradiation ultralisks that are close to your base since they will actually just cause more damage if the health hasn't gone down alot before they attack you. I do suggest practicing the first method because it will help you improve your multitasking and being aggressive overall wich is a great attribute vs any zergplayers imo. Alexpnd: If you notice zerg doing 1hatch hydrabuild and you are going 2fact vults with speed you are doing fine. Use vulturemicro to pick of lone hydralisks and run around them and kill reinforcements and then attack from both sides or whatever because your vultcount will be enough vs his hydras when he reachers your base. And if he waits for more hydra before moving out you can just wait for mines and layy minefields all over the place. 1 base hydra is easy to beat with 2fact vults :D LaLaBye: 1. You have to have 4 marines already in the bunker and the rest of them at the ramp. Then use the scvs to protect the marines. He cannot break that and he will try to attack the cc or whatever he can, then just lift of and wait for firebats. Move out with 10+marines 2 bats and 2medics and he cannot kill you if you practice your micro and also be sure that you have stim ready before landing cc again if he has lots of lings. 2. I always split up my units into two groups and usually vs 2hatch play I also make a bunker in my natural. Keep making turrets if he keeps making mutalisks, you can have more turrets at the mineralline of your main for example and less at you barracks because your units are going to be there and then run as fast as possible to the ramp if he decides to attack with mutalisks and lings. If you can keep the macro up ad defend at the same time he wont be able to outmacro you unless he's jaedong. The key is to keep making 1 turret at a time on 3 locations at the same time if you notice that he keeps producing mutalisks. And how do you know that he's doing that? keep scanning his base^^ 3. You do the 2hatch counter build that i explain in my vod. Add a third rax after the ebay and add comsats directly after academy. Make turrets in time (you will have scan in time) and make them one by one on 3 locations at the same time while keep producing marines and adding a bunker in your natural. Mutas will be out at about 5:50-6:10 and you will have some seconds before they arrive at your base. If there is any obvious locations where he will strike first, start by adding 2 turrets there directly. Also do this if the location is specifically hard to defend vs mutas such as under a cliff etc... For more information, please read the FAQ about how to counter 2hatchmuta and watch the VOD. Good luck guys! | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17743 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On April 22 2009 19:06 Ilikestarcraft wrote: I think nozaro32 was talking about the crazy zerg strategy. Where zerg gets an early chamber for +1 carapace buys time with mutas and goes straight to ultras, skipping lurkers. Ok. Since he said 3-4 expansions and mentioned lategame i assumed it was the other way around. Anyway, I think the explenation on how to defeat a 2base ultrarush in the FAQ. And if he does 3 base ultrarush (which wont really be a rush) you can just proceed with the 9min push and go for his main. | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
I have a question about moving out before the 9 min mark. If I recall correctly, you said not to move out with just M&M before the 9 min mark. However, I encounter some problems if I leave the Zerg alone (i.e. not forcing Sunkens at 6:00 into the game): Lately, a lot of Zergs I've played against have taken a very fast 3rd base (way before their Mutalisk harass starts) in order to get more gas. When I move out at the 9 min mark, their force is often overwhelming me. What can I do against a Zerg taking such an early 3rd since I'm not supposed to move out? Can I just throw some Firebats in and move out nevertheless or am I going to be lacking Marines when the Mutalisk harass starts? Thx in advance! | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
If you notice that he's overexpanding like placing his third hatch in a new expansion or anything like that you can just switch to the ayumi build or some sort of a raxheavy build. Just be prepared for that he can use his lings to backstab if you move out too early. So the answer is yes, you can move out with a group to preassure his natural at about 6 minutes but don't go too far, just force him to make the sunkens. If you play him many times, switch up the build abit. Switch back and forth between 9minpush and ayumi for example and he might not be so greedy the next time. Usually when I face a zerg who gets the third expo before his spire is finnished i'm still able to defeat his army and go for his main using the 9minpush. It's designed so that the third gas wont have been up long enpough to really matter much. | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
EDIT: It's not possible to switch to the A-Yu-Mi build because the Zerg takes his "early" expansion after you have to decide what build you're going to use. Thus, the only solution is to improve my macro even more. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
My computer still has virus and I cannot record anthing at the moment, however i got some replays that i will make a pack of soon. Mostly of the 8rax mech build though from iccup. Yes I know it can be too late for the ayumi, but switch between 9minpush and ayumi sometimes in a bo5 etc so you make the zerg afraid of taking expansions. You don't have to switch to the ayumi, try the EE timing or just a normal 5rax build if he takes his third too soon. Whats important is that you're going to be strong in the early midgame and take out his natural or his expansion with marines. You can do that in a numerous ways, try cutting some scvs to get another rax up and more marines some time before you move out, it helps alot. The EE timing build is actually really strong and I have almost never lost a game with it when the zerg opens mutalisks. So if you know that your opponent is opening mutalisks you should really switch in that build sometimes. | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
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ZeKk
Sweden320 Posts
I have really troubeling to judge how many facs I should bring up depending on what the protoss do. Since he's putting up he's third on diffrent times. Then my 5 facs wont work. Somtimes P goes dt drop, but even if he hardly kill anything I m still stalled a bit and he gain on it. Take care and hope u get rid of that damned Virus soon | ||
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On April 25 2009 12:52 ZeKk wrote: Hey stylish. Do you think you could put up some advice on how many factory you should build depending on how P expoing and what he does and maby go into some more detail to that?. I think u mention this in some reply on the fpvod thread, but I don't want to browse 50 pages to find it and it could always be good for other players to read it here on ur FAQ thread. I have really troubeling to judge how many facs I should bring up depending on what the protoss do. Since he's putting up he's third on diffrent times. Then my 5 facs wont work. Somtimes P goes dt drop, but even if he hardly kill anything I m still stalled a bit and he gain on it. Take care and hope u get rid of that damned Virus soon I believe the # of factories you have should be dependent on YOUR economy, not the Protoss's. Just because the protoss has like 4 bases, doesn't mean you can run like 12 facs efficiently off of 2 bases. | ||
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ZeKk
Sweden320 Posts
On April 25 2009 17:16 SilverskY wrote: I believe the # of factories you have should be dependent on YOUR economy, not the Protoss's. Just because the protoss has like 4 bases, doesn't mean you can run like 12 facs efficiently off of 2 bases. I would like to know what factory amount is suitable depending on what protoss have and doing. Of course im not sitting on a 2 bases when protoss has 4 bases and pumping out of 12 facs, hell can you even afford that? Somtimes you can kill the protoss with a fewer facs and a timing push rather than trying to set up as many factory you can, just becuase u can afford it dosen't mean it's the best way or the only way. You see my point now? | ||
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HyoRiN
United States20 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Usually, if you have 2 bases running and are going to transfer to a third grab about 6 scvs from both bases and then transfer. Use the shift click to grab 6 from your main and then add 6 from your natural to make a group of 12. In the lategame, usually you can transfer SCVs from bases that are outmined. Zekk: I'll answer your question soon I'm busy atm. | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
On April 25 2009 17:16 SilverskY wrote: + Show Spoiler + I believe the # of factories you have should be dependent on YOUR economy, not the Protoss's. Just because the protoss has like 4 bases, doesn't mean you can run like 12 facs efficiently off of 2 bases. im pretty sure you can run 6 facts pretty easily off 2 bases and 9 facts off 3 bases... | ||
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Tbake
United States71 Posts
So lets say i am doing the 9 min push, and the zerg goes for the muta into lurks. He gets his 3rd at his initial muta harras He gets his 4th at 9:21 and Hive at 11ish For this do we still wait for the Hive tech or the 2-1 or what? to start? Or should I have pushed him at the 3rd.? Lets say he goes the standard muta harras or even just uses like 6 mutas, and then takes a quick 3rd, while getting lurkers and hive and such. Do you still wait for the 9 min push or do you move out sooner, because it seems that if he takes the 3rd early enough, he will get a great eco advantage, and have so many lurks when you push out. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Continue with the 9min push. He will still not have an obvious advantage on you, specially since he need to split his units to defend the drop aswell. If you play an opponent over and over again, switch in some other builds if you want to win more and not only focus on getting better. Not only extreme ones such as the a-yu-mi build but also another version of a standard build like the 3rax tech that artosis described to put early midgame preassure. What you describe is pretty much a standard zergopening, but the zerg might make less mutas and get his third up alittle sooner. If you notice his lack of mutalisks you can move out with 15marines and some medics and put preassure on him, forcing him to make sunkens or zerglings rather than drones and then go back again, or cut turrets to make an aditional barrack so you aswell get a bigger army for the push. | ||
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ZzZzAnG
United States109 Posts
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