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United States12607 Posts
On December 29 2008 10:42 rushz0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 10:19 GTR-2-Go wrote:On December 29 2008 09:29 Snacks wrote:On December 29 2008 09:14 rushz0rz wrote:On December 29 2008 01:43 Snacks wrote:
8 - pylon
10 - gateway
11/12 - assimilator
13/14 - core
15 - gateway, cut Probes, Dragoon
17 - pylon, Dragoon Range
Two Dragoons at the same time. Works out so both dragoons build simultaneously.
Probably not the exact Nony build but here's a variation of it.
Edit: Looking at your build actually, the 13 gateway looks a bit out of placed. How does an earlier second gateway work out for you? why do you call it the "nony build". free has been doing this forever. ....Because he asked how to execute the build that nony executed in courage? I even know about this build before he did it recently lol. NonY was also the one that popularised it to the general foreigners. I don't see why you have to be such a nit about it being a specific players build. Because it's stupid to call it the "NonY build" when players have been using it forever. Just because people see it just got done by NonY in courage does not mean he made it up.
Did you even read the comments above? GTR's point was that you don't have to invent a build to have it named after you. Simply popularizing it is enough - and you could certainly make the case that NonY has popularized 10/15 gate on Medusa via that Courage video.
Think about it man, it's extremely rare to see a build actually named after the player who invented it. The common practice is to name the build for whoever made it famous: for example, Bisu, Mondragon, Kwanro...I'm sure not nearly all of these guys invented their builds. They just made high-profile, successful use of them.
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10/15 gate has been used since luna and its always been called 10/15, its like saying once upon a time yellow used 9p speedling so we should call it the yellow b.o from now on
the only real famous b.os named after players which i can think of are like the gundam rush, skterran, sparksterran rush(or however u called it, i would use this name to talk about the early game bio rush sync or blaze would use tvz against sunks), the boxer build(early game tank drop tvp) and flash stlyle
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Idk if this is the same but Nal_Ra used a similar 2 gate goon with cut probes on Longinus against Iris, he lost because of a proxy hidden 2 fact +vulture mine but it may help to test the timing (since its nal_ra so i guess the timing is maxed). I think the replay is somewhere the game is from Blizzcon 2007, but couldnt find it.
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On December 29 2008 10:52 jwd241224 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 10:42 rushz0rz wrote:On December 29 2008 10:19 GTR-2-Go wrote:On December 29 2008 09:29 Snacks wrote:On December 29 2008 09:14 rushz0rz wrote:On December 29 2008 01:43 Snacks wrote:
8 - pylon
10 - gateway
11/12 - assimilator
13/14 - core
15 - gateway, cut Probes, Dragoon
17 - pylon, Dragoon Range
Two Dragoons at the same time. Works out so both dragoons build simultaneously.
Probably not the exact Nony build but here's a variation of it.
Edit: Looking at your build actually, the 13 gateway looks a bit out of placed. How does an earlier second gateway work out for you? why do you call it the "nony build". free has been doing this forever. ....Because he asked how to execute the build that nony executed in courage? I even know about this build before he did it recently lol. NonY was also the one that popularised it to the general foreigners. I don't see why you have to be such a nit about it being a specific players build. Because it's stupid to call it the "NonY build" when players have been using it forever. Just because people see it just got done by NonY in courage does not mean he made it up. Did you even read the comments above? GTR's point was that you don't have to invent a build to have it named after you. Simply popularizing it is enough - and you could certainly make the case that NonY has popularized 10/15 gate on Medusa via that Courage video.
That courage video hasnt even been out for 24 hours yet...
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8 pylon
10 gate
11 gas
14 core
15 gate and cut
15. Goon and range
17 pylon
Still on 17... 2 goons
21 pylon
Still on 21... 2 goons
This is the way I do the build, range pops while attacking with 3 goons and next 2 arrive shortly after. Comments??
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fuck this build its for all in toss newbs who cant micro :DD. Jk its scary as fuck
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On December 29 2008 02:13 iamtt1 wrote:
8 pylon
10 gate
12 assi
13 core
15 gate
15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base)
15 range
15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon)
but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa
Nony does this build a LOT. He even did it vs me PvP on Troy at WCG - but cutting even more probes to make an early zealot.
I've used this build with plenty of success even on ramped maps, but it's definitely best on maps where T has to work hard to defend his wall without losing tanks before siege.
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He called it the nony build because he had never seen it before, heard of it before Nony used it. Jeez.
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from the other point of view:
what are the optimal ways to "defend" it aka blocking it with minimal casualties? (I am asking about flat maps where this build should be used)
is there any way to defend it if I didn't wall?
and what are my options if I did? should I make any marines?
thx in advance
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no wallin = bunk front, lift ur rack put it next to your bunk so block goon runin and just repair while you exp and wait for your tank, use scvs if he tries to run in, 3-4 rines
wall = 11gas then take like all 3 scvs(or 2) out of gas when you have 100 so you could exp earlier, if you wallin 0 marines <-- would be the best way to defend 10/15 on flat maps, the key is not to slow yourself down too much
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On December 29 2008 02:13 iamtt1 wrote:
8 pylon
10 gate
12 assi
13 core
15 gate
15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base)
15 range
15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon)
but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa
Nony would disagree with you considering he used it every game on Medusa and never lost a single time.
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On December 30 2008 02:17 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 02:13 iamtt1 wrote:
8 pylon
10 gate
12 assi
13 core
15 gate
15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base)
15 range
15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon)
but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa
Nony would disagree with you considering he used it every game on Medusa and never lost a single time.
Wait didn't he lose one? I thought they corrected the 3-0 with 10/15 before finals later to nony having lost one..... gotta go rewatch and check.
Yeah he lost one to a 2fac build
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IdrA said you should 10/15 gate on Medusa wayy before this Courage video, and the build is wayyy older than that.
We should, on the other hand, name it the anti-IdrA build because he acted so condescending about it, how about that?
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I have some specific questions (and an effort to make the strategy section more like the korean sites seem to be):
How does this build work against 2 factory rushes? does it lose? what is the proper response?
How about against 1fact 1port fast drop builds? fast vulture drop builds? also fast tank drop?
proxy barracks (unlikely on medusa but still i'd like to hear about it)?
what is the best follow up if the terran does not lose immediately? expo? and then perhaps DT? and gain map control expo again and then arbiters?
where are there replays/vods of people doing this build beyond the initial one? could a good player (C+ or above) play someone good on iccup and use this build once if possible?
is there anything nonstandard that fares strangely well against this build (ex. how would biomech do?)?
are there vods or replays of each individual specific terran response that i have mentioned here against this build?
MAJOR thanks in advance!
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On December 29 2008 15:26 Hypnosis wrote:
fuck this build its for all in toss newbs who cant micro :DD. Jk its scary as fuck
You realise the whole point of this build is to be able to micro half decently. Though I will admit it takes a decent terran to not lose too many scvs/the initial tank. It's still fairly micro intensive at the start.
And yes I saw the jk, but I don't like that cop out.
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8 pylon
10 gate
11 assimilator
13 core
15 gate
16 range/pylon (cut probes at 16)
when second gate warps in make 2 goons, 20 psi
20 another probe
21 pylon + 2 goons
most efficient build for 4 goons and fast range imo
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On January 01 2009 22:28 Sanity. wrote:
8 pylon
10 gate
11 assimilator
13 core
15 gate
16 range/pylon (cut probes at 16)
when second gate warps in make 2 goons, 20 psi
20 another probe
21 pylon + 2 goons
most efficient build for 4 goons and fast range imo
Not really, i tested several of them since i started this post, and the one that got the best results in overal, i.e. both early pressure and decent economy to go in the late game is the one listed below. Also the build is longer than others because you are the aggressor and there will be no harass and you shouldnt lose any goons early on, so the numbers will be correct longer.
8 pylon
10 gate
11 assim
13 core
15 gate + cut probes
15 range
15 goon
17 pylon
17 2 goons
21 probe
22 pylon
22 probe
23 2 goons
27 probe
28 either pylon or nexus depends on the succes of your first 5 goons wether you wanna keep pressuring or get your exp up. If you go for the nexus its best to wait a little longer, get two more goons out and stick at 33, saving minerals till 400, for a while doing some more dmg with your 7 goons (if they are still alive) and then build both a nexus and a pylon
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the only difference between these two builds is you have one more probe with mine. same amount of goons.
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EPT
