EPT[Q] PvT on medusa, 10/15 build order - Page 3
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
This is like, how to goon rush 101. I like cutting goons after 5 and going DTs ~_~ Best, build, ever~ besides DT drop. I am curious about the PvP variation with probe cuts for the zealot. Sounds like a build I would like to use quite often. | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
On January 01 2009 21:39 anotak wrote: I have some specific questions (and an effort to make the strategy section more like the korean sites seem to be): How does this build work against 2 factory rushes? does it lose? what is the proper response? As far as i know you will not be able to stop the terran from scouting this since you only do it on a flat map and you need all you probes mining because you are poor as it is. Once the terran has scouted it he has only 1 option and that is going for a wall repair and siege expand. Every second his siege is late he will be hurting by the goons. How about against 1fact 1port fast drop builds? fast vulture drop builds? also fast tank drop? 2 factory rush is actually later than your pressure so its not really a rush. If you see him going 2 fact (you can count his tanks, with single fact he should only have 1 when you got 1 goon, and two when you got 3 goons) just slap down your third gate and standard pvt begins. Actually i think that due to his slow siege the terran takes too much risk and will suffer a lot from the early pressure. same with 1fact/fast drop. It cant be a fast drop because the terran must dedicate all resources to that siege expand. Drop will be late, obs will be out and you should see the drop coming. proxy barracks (unlikely on medusa but still i'd like to hear about it)? proxy barracks depends on micro, but i wouldn't advise this for the terran since taking on goons with pure marines is starcraft suicide. what is the best follow up if the terran does not lose immediately? expo? and then perhaps DT? and gain map control expo again and then arbiters? the follow up is expanding ofc. You have to decide base on the succes of your first 5 goons wether to build more and keep pressuring or to start an expand. The decision must be made again every time 2 goons pop out. Very situational, but if both players play perfect (i.e. no tank loss, no goon loss and no wall break), its best to expand after 5 goons. Expansion timing will be the same compared to the terran as in any other standard PvT, worker count should also be the levelled again (probe cut vs repairing scv snipe). So all PvT strats apply. where are there replays/vods of people doing this build beyond the initial one? could a good player (C+ or above) play someone good on iccup and use this build once if possible? If you wanna see vods, just check tlpd, click maps>medusa and pick any PvT. Chances are good it will be a 10/15. For reps same principle, look for PvT on medusa. is there anything nonstandard that fares strangely well against this build (ex. how would biomech Again the same as stated before, the 10/15 force the terran to siege expand. Another option is going for mines. This will also stop the goons from advancing, but the terran wall will fail and the terran expansion will be late and leave him behind for the rest of the game. Ofc protoss will occasionally run into the mines, lose too many goons and vultures will raid his base, but if you gotta count on this as a terran then there is something wrong with your gameplan. When facing mines with a 10/15 you should just wait for observers while delaying the terran expansion and taking your own. I actually like to get a dropship and fill it with zealots. His mine choice will have him making vults in beginning, so he will have less tanks when the expansion comes up and a bulldog will be very effective. Lol, this is starting to become a guide, and i actually didn't even know the build order when is started this post. I will test some of these counters, try to find some reps for each of them, to get a better idea of timings from the various counters. When i have time for it that is... | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
On January 02 2009 10:06 SuperJongMan wrote: I am curious about the PvP variation with probe cuts for the zealot. Sounds like a build I would like to use quite often. That would be the 9/10 gate you normally use vs zerg i guess. | ||
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
Nonys pvp build on troy vs louder 2gating: 8p,10gate, 13core, 13z, 15gate, 15p, 15goon, 18g, 20goon, p, goons Note this has no range. So you can stick range in there but that will slow units down some. As far as what specific bo is best (pah) for this 10/15 build plan vs T...this build can be done different ways with different tradeoffs depending on the order you go for the first goon/range/pylon. I think the key B.O. question here is what is more important -- faster goons or faster range. It is unclear to me, but I am leaning towards 15p,15goon,17range while Gnojfatelob has opted for faster range. In fact there is already a thread on this build pvt in the forums someplace with an emphasis on no/late range. Cant find it easily though. here it is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67550 | ||
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Sanity.
United States704 Posts
On January 02 2009 09:11 RisingTide wrote: Sanity, your build actually leaves you with one less goon; Gnojfatelob's cuts probes at 15 to allow a goon to be made before the second pylon. no.... you have 4 goons at the EXACT same time but one more probe | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2934 Posts
10 gate 11 gas 13 core 15 gate 15 pylon range then goon That you are somewhat mineral hungry, thus I have found that if you mine 216 gas and then take 2 probes off gas and put them on minerals for a bit, you get a stronger econ. | ||
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GearitUP
United States337 Posts
On December 29 2008 10:19 GTR-2-Go wrote: NonY was also the one that popularised it to the general foreigners. I don't see why you have to be such a nit about it being a specific players build. haha I noticed after the nony at courage video everyone has been mentioning this build order, i tried it a few times on medusa on Iccup, works pretty decently. Really the trick to it is keep pumping goons while your microing the scv's/tank. once you kill the suppy and get in its pretty much GG. Make sure you rally your goons, also I put 3 probes on gas as soon as assimilaor finishes then after I have 2 goons finished, I transfer the 3rd to minerals. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
heres the replay http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=6856 this guy only had 1000 pts on iccup so i figured id play him  | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
On January 04 2009 02:47 CorSairHeRo wrote: hey guys, I'd figure i would post in this thread instead of making a new one. I just tried this build and i was able to harass his depot but he was able to repair it using 2 scv's while getting a tank and seige. I had set up a contain and went for a expansion after i had about 10 goons. It turns out that he went for a 2 factory build and owned me. any tips for me on how to over come this? after the expansion i went for a robo bay with observers after i noticed the speed vultures. By that time he had already pushed to my natural. heres the replay http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=6856 this guy only had 1000 pts on iccup so i figured id play him It always helps to scout this before you exp so you can get a third gate, steamroll his rush and be very much ahead. There was a hint of double fact since he didn't expand, but that is hard too see if his tanks are well positioned like they were. Just remember the golden rule: slap down your third gateway rigth after your second nexus and never ever let your obs be late. If you keep these in mind you shouldn't have any problems stopping a 2 fact rush with a 10/15. Also, i do believe your micro was not that good, it should be possible to stop that 3 tank rush with your amount of goons. You lost too much to mines. But if you wanna be safe do as stated above. btw, 1000 points people scare me the most :D i just doesn't feel right when someone has 1000 points. | ||
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knightpraetor
United States180 Posts
second question: when do you scout in this build...i get the feeling that i need to scout later to do this right. I think i'm stocking up too many minerals at 15 but with insufficient gas...maybe my gas goes up late, because i scout after the first pylon? or is my split just too bad..that could have been it too.. anyways, range before goon since you won't be able to start another till the pylon gets up, right? you can goon before pylon to have one more goon..while if you pyloned first, your econ would take less of a hit, but your goon timings are slightly later. so basically it's a question of whether the 10-15 sec you lose on your rush will be made up economically i tend to get range first before the goon, but this means i can't kill his scout as quickly..which means he knows i didn't place the 15 pylon..so he knows this is all-in... anyways, the ordering of goon, pylon, and range is driving me crazy..i don't know which one i really prefer first..i usually look at trying this as an all-in so pylon is last, but regardless a good terran should know whether you did pylon first or goon/range first...and you can't deny the scouting till your first goon is out..so if he sees a later pylon he knows he will need units a tad faster, and vice versa. do you find it viable to go fake 2gate range, cancel goons and go robo into reaver? and would you cancel range i nsuch a situation? or just let the reaver be a little later. man, i'm so sleepy i can't type straight...i'll probably wake up in the morning and find this illegible. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On January 02 2009 16:32 Sanity. wrote: no.... you have 4 goons at the EXACT same time but one more probe How's that possible? In the 10/15, you never have 4 goons at a time. It goes straight from 3 to 5. What are you talking about? | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On January 26 2009 05:14 Shikyo wrote: How's that possible? In the 10/15, you never have 4 goons at a time. It goes straight from 3 to 5. What are you talking about? you can have 4 goon.. 1 goon first, then 2 at the same time, and instead building 2 again you build 1 so you don't have to skip probes again. | ||
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