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United States17042 Posts
On December 10 2008 07:39 Misrah wrote:
LoL Dante you read my other insanity BO? lol. I'm still working on that. Be prepared for a Zerg on Coke V 2.0 coming in a few months lol.
Perhaps Zerg Ecnomy on coke will work well with Cocaine Bo?
Edit: Ohh and if I ever was christened with a nickname- and that was respected through out the community, I would put it on my grave stone.
Junkie Zerg? lol i like it.
kind of like me xD
go to a meetup 
not sure i'm respected throughout the community though. I'll quest to be >C- level at some point in my life >.>
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Braavos36388 Posts
hatch timings are already maximized by current build orders
the reason why this idea is useless is because as you're adding early hatcheries you don't have enough money to use the larvae being spit out by your current hatches. by having 3 idle larvae everywhere while you're blissfully adding more hatches, added with the economic/tech hit that you'll take by not progressing normally, completely outweighs any boost in production flexibility that you'll get later on from more hatcheries
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If you're going to go all-in, why not make lings instead of hatches? Hatches don't help you crack a cannon line...
Mass hatch is what you do in money maps with NR15... modern zerg builds are what works in real maps. Good zerg players can keep their money down anyway, so why more hatches? Build hatches when you need them, not when you are vulnerable.
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So basically i have a mute point? And idea? None the less. When i have time, i am going to try this out a bit. IMO it's worth exploring.
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Keep in mind that gas is the most limiting resource. The only thing you can hope to accomplish is to make a large amount of low tech units early on, which is easily countered by both terran and protoss. They will just delay moving out until their blob can eat any number of zerglings and hydras. For the standard zerg strats, hatchery and drone count is balanced for efficient production. With mass hatches comes delayed tech, and adding more expos than the natural will be hard. The only possible use of a low tech/mass hatch build is to keep adding hatcheries in zvp, on expo spots when possible, while making just enough low tech units to defend. In other words, the ancient sauron strat.
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Yes i realize that the build is a slight mirror of sauron style. For some reason my brain is functioning in this mode. ie. Cocaine Bo and all of that. However i believe you are incorrect in saying that large amounts of low teir units are noneffective. I couldn't disagree more. However that is not the discussion of this economic idea.
@ Hot_Bid
When you are talking about hatch timings are already maximized by current build orders, would you agree or disagree that zerg players will have an excess of minerals- even though catching every single larve off of a 3 hatch? Or am i just really really in the wrong ball park with my ideas.
I would have thought that this idea would at least have some merit- but right now, I'm getting nothing.
So basically I am insane? and defiantly in the wrong here?
Damn finals- taking up so much of my time. the only thing i can do, is look at Tl once and awhile lol
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Having an excess of hatcheries without resources to produce units is even sillier than having excessive resources and not enough hatcheries. At least resources accumulate and can be used later - hatcheries can hold only three larva before they start losing potential production. Additional hatcheries makes sense only when you are gaining resources faster than you can spend.
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On December 10 2008 09:44 Underwhelmed wrote:
Having an excess of hatcheries without resources to produce units is even sillier than having excessive resources and not enough hatcheries. At least resources accumulate and can be used later - hatcheries can hold only three larva before they start losing potential production. Additional hatcheries makes sense only when you are gaining resources faster than you can spend.
True.
Ya i think that i am studying to hard- and not thinking about SC enough lol.
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Calgary25990 Posts
That's where tech fits in. Yea, of course if you are just making Drones it's best to cut them to make more Hatcheries sooner, but the problem you aren't addressing (which is the major point you should be addressing) is how delayed tech and fewer expansions is overcome by having more production.
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This sounds like a sauron-esque zerg style except without the mass expand. The reason why one would have too many minerals left over is because there are too many drones mining and not enough army. Sure, Zerg can have an amazing eco with many, many bases, but what is it worth if you have no psi left to build army? Building mass hatch in the early game will leave you too behind, and adding mass hatch in late game means you probably have too many drones. Unless your psi is really low, in which case you probably should mass hatch. But then again, when you get to the late game, expanding eco isnt really something you need, seeing as you already have a lot of drones and can maynard them to your new expos.
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i don't see how you aren't going to get run over using this. if terran / protoss have a linear mining progression then the entire time you are making hatches / fighting units in order to stay alive your economy remains stagnant.
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On December 10 2008 08:55 Misrah wrote:
For Example:
12 hatch
11 pool
13 hatch
13 hatch
13 hatch
13 hatch
ext.
Chill please close this thread there are no ideas, just an opp who doesn't understand alot of economic concepts that are standard today.
To the op when I go 12/11/13/17 or 18 4 hat before gas ZvP I am pushing it as it is.
You are talking about basicly a mass ling heavy game.
You idea's die after 10 minutes.
Sure getting mass hats and doing a giant break is standard, I've gone 5 hat no lair speed only hydras DOZENS of times, but .... its an all-in.
You recommending zerg puts off making money, so they can match armies, which doesn't favor zerg ZvP or ZvT. This means No hive no 4th, no grades, no drones..... The entire concept of making hats with minimal drones.....
Have you watch modern ZvP? .... thats the whole idea already introduced, and if you watch closer you would realize how the drones increase depending on unit choice, tech, number of hats, opps tech, opps expos , opps strength.
This is a non-idea idea, modern ZvP is already stretching the limits of 'low drone saturation' and you want to make it worse.
If you need I can play a game and make 5 hats before 22-23 supply and show you how untimmmed and weak it is.
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On December 10 2008 11:05 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2008 08:55 Misrah wrote:
For Example:
12 hatch
11 pool
13 hatch
13 hatch
13 hatch
13 hatch
ext.
Chill please close this thread there are no ideas, just an opp who doesn't understand alot of economic concepts that are standard today. To the op when I go 12/11/13/17 or 18 4 hat before gas ZvP I am pushing it as it is. You are talking about basicly a mass ling heavy game. You idea's die after 10 minutes. Sure getting mass hats and doing a giant break is standard, I've gone 5 hat no lair speed only hydras DOZENS of times, but .... its an all-in. You recommending zerg puts off making money, so they can match armies, which doesn't favor zerg ZvP or ZvT. This means No hive no 4th, no grades, no drones..... The entire concept of making hats with minimal drones..... Have you watch modern ZvP? .... thats the whole idea already introduced, and if you watch closer you would realize how the drones increase depending on unit choice, tech, number of hats, opps tech, opps expos , opps strength. This is a non-idea idea, modern ZvP is already stretching the limits of 'low drone saturation' and you want to make it worse. If you need I can play a game and make 5 hats before 22-23 supply and show you how untimmmed and weak it is.
Damn well that was convincing. Sorry for wasting time everyone. I thought that perhaps i could have been/may have been onto an interesting idea.
Thanks for slapping sense into me attack, chill everyone lol
sorry again. 
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Don't be sorry, I look forward to every single one of your posts.
My tone was annoyed because a zerg macro expert (oystein) told you and you more or less disregarded him.
Keep thinking about zerg, I love your thoughts and ideas your a great poster just look out for when very good players try to break something down for you, they won't lie for fun  .
Later bro.
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are you hoping to have figured out some new amazing theory???.. sorry you failed
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Economy leads to production. Production does not lead to economy.
Basically, what you should get is the same amount of resources and the same amount of units, but more unused hatches...
xP I must have too much freetime...should be studying for finals too >> crap
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United States17042 Posts
those graphs above are pretty cool .
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rucky, those graphs are simply amazing. I am glad that you are putting off your academic career! lol Anyway even though the point has been shown to be mute i love your attempt lol. <3
@ Hatchet Wound, well yes and no. I did get kind of close at one time coming up with something viable- that was rather unorthodox (im still working on that though, be prepared for V 2.0 soon) this idea was more of a, OMG WHAT IF? so ya, your right phail. Epic phail on my part here.
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1) You are Drunk.
2) When you play Starcraft, you are not in a vacuum.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9745/zergeconomygg8.jpg)
