EPTIntrigues first paragraph kind of summed it up.
[Q] Optic Flare in TvP? - Page 2
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
Intrigues first paragraph kind of summed it up. | ||
KwarK
United States44401 Posts
Flaring shuttles: Firstly, you still need a few turrets to kill the shuttle before he drops the reaver. If your opponent suddenly sees missiles hitting the shuttle and panicks and retreats then you kill it. If he keeps coming all that'll happen is he can't shuttle micro, there will still be a reaver in your mineral line, something which a fast academy build is poorly suited to deal with. And we are of course assuming he is using the shuttle without scouting, whereas they almost always have an ob where they wish to drop. Much more likely however is that he will keep the shuttle with his army once it is flared and the flare will have no effect. That and flare in no way stops storm drops which are suicidal anyway. | ||
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
the boxer game where he flared the observers and shot down a billion carriers with cloaked wraith, rofl classic. | ||
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
On November 21 2007 01:01 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Actually, it would be useful against zerg in mid game before sci vessel, when you are going for it's expa and the zerg has 2 lurkers above the ramp. Flare both lurkers, get through ramp (without attacking) and either deal with expo or micro against 2 lurkers. Rare, but possible practically.Optic Flare is always, no matter what, a waste of time and money. Simple as that. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On November 21 2007 02:05 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: Actually, it would be useful against zerg in mid game before sci vessel, when you are going for it's expa and the zerg has 2 lurkers above the ramp. Flare both lurkers, get through ramp (without attacking) and either deal with expo or micro against 2 lurkers. Rare, but possible practically. Gotta try this! If it works, my nightmare has ended. Fuckin zerg expos without worry. 2lurker > 586 marines. EDIT: I also get blind almost every TvZ, it pwns guardian harras. | ||
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XCetron
5226 Posts
On November 21 2007 01:01 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Optic Flare is always, no matter what, a waste of time and money. Simple as that. Yea BoxeR got into pimpestplays by doing a complete waste of time and money move. | ||
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Zalfor
United States1035 Posts
I think a few medics in TvP might work too, if you place them right outside of your army so goons will attack them while the zealots charge in and die. then again, i dont think its worth it to have. | ||
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
On November 20 2007 22:09 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: in general, the idea was that restoration took up too much time to do before it saved you significant damage. Somehow I doubt that. Get a bunch of vessels plagued, and you could at least save a few of them from the '1-hit-kill' death by quickly putting restoration on them, doesn't take more than a second or two. | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
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stenole
Norway870 Posts
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
Leave the medics to flashy people like Boxer | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
On November 21 2007 00:06 intrigue wrote: I don't think they are similar. Queens can have an incredible impact on the game with any of the three skills that they offer, even just one for fast scouting and parasite. The other two skills, ensnare and broodling, are definitely game-changing if used in the right circumstances as well. It's just for some reason pros aren't incorporating them into their play *cough savior goes straight to defilers* and it's a shame.edit: this is similar to the 'why don't zergs use queens?' question. queens are along the tech tree, can extremely effective (more so than medics in tvp), and are cheap. and yet most zergs don't use them, most likely because there is too much going on to really apply it. chill predicts that in a few months queens will be regular in progamer zvx games as players push the envelopes more and more. Medics really aren't that useful unless you're going medic/marine, and if you're going medic/marine, odds are you don't have that many vultures, at least early game, meaning the flare would be pretty useless anyway (the only good reason I can think of to use flare is so they can't detect your mines). Like other people have said, if you are able to detect the observer, you probably should just kill it instead of wasting your time trying to flare it. I think that it can be potentially useful in deterring drops (reaver drops in particular), especially along with a small MM squad, or catching someone who isn't paying attention off guard and blinding the observer that they think is going to be detecting mines, but I don't know if it's worth it to research Flare and actively try to do such things, when you could be doing something else instead, maybe better vulture harrass or just concentrating on better macroing. In short, I think queens have WAY much more potential than flare with medics in TvP does.  edit: i think it'd be pretty funny and pimp to bring like 1 medic along with your huge metal force, even if only to make the opponent go "WTF?" though, lol  Hey add one firebat too, only 50 gas total. Instant gg. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On November 21 2007 05:34 stenole wrote: As I understand it, unupgraded goliaths need 6 hits on an observer, and around 8 or 9 (?) on a shuttle. If they only get a couple of hits in, this damage might later turn out to be nothing, since the shields recharge. Both, when they are left idle, instinctively run from goliath fire even without active evasion micro.Blind could be useful for making a toss think he has an observer with his army when he really doesn't so he walks right into a minefield. But why not get 2 goliaths instead? It helps you kill shuttles and gets rid of observers too. Optic flare does its effect in one shot. If a shuttle or observer dips in a medic's range, you can blind it with no hope of escape. You need the Charon Booster to come close to optic flare's range, and there is no such upgrade for the ground attack. It's quite possible to have 2 goliaths in your base, be actively managing them at the exact time the drop comes in, and still have them both killed by a reaver drop without inflicting significant damage to the drop forces. Optic flare's range is longer than the reaver's range, and longer than the shuttle's sight range. The shuttle can be blinded before it even sees the medic. There's no sound effect warning that's in danger, either, unlike the missile launch sound of goliaths and turrets. There's no way for anything in a reaver drop to escape unblinded, if you have enough medic energy and your micro is up to the task. Once you research flare for 100/100, medics are only 50/25, while goliaths are 100/50. Usually, you'll have an idle barracks to make marines and an idle academy to research flare, while you must use precious factory time to make goliaths, and scarce machine shop time for charon booster. Goliaths are also very clumsy in terms of pathfinding, while medics are agile little things, good for rushing through bases to interfere with a drop. There are good reasons why pros very often neglect to build goliaths, even when they're being harassed with shuttles. Just saying: there are advantages to flaring medics over goliaths, in price, convenience, and potential effectiveness. The advantages goliaths have over medics, on the other hand, are obvious: basic combat capability, toughness, and auto-attacking. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On November 21 2007 02:31 XCetron wrote: Yea BoxeR got into pimpestplays by doing a complete waste of time and money move. The ironic part of this comment is that BoxeR still lost that game. | ||
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
On November 21 2007 06:14 Funchucks wrote: The thing about Goliaths vs. drops and observers though is that they can effectively scare the opponent off from ever even attempting to drop.. and medics, well.. you still have to kill the unit, or scan to reveal the observer in the right place and THEN flare it. But hey, MM squad or Goliath+Medic ftw | ||
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
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