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Units You Never Bother Making? - Page 8

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Darkwhite
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway352 Posts
January 19 2014 06:12 GMT
#141
On January 18 2014 23:59 skzlime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2014 09:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
erm countering queens with sairs is pretty silly. queens are actually a really good counter for corsairs, both because parasite lets you know where the army is and because ensnare allows you to escape it and trap them.

the problem with broodling against protoss is that, unlike terran who always has some tanks towards the edge of his army or whatever that you can target, protoss usually has his templars behind /together with a goon army. and if you cast broodling, and your queen dies before the broodling spawns, what actually happens is that that the broodling ends up not landing. (I think it's the only spell in bw to function like this!) If you try to broodling a templar protected by 12 goons, you'll very frequently find your queens dying without having successfully broodlinged anything. In addition there's the whole save up 150 energy thing.

Ensnare is awesome though, should be used all the time, but you dont need it which is why you don't see it more.

are you sure? no way that can be true.


Tested and confirmed. If the queen dies while the projectile is midair, the projectile will hit and produce a green poison cloud, but the target will not die and no broodlings are spawned.
Darker than the sun's light; much stiller than the storm - slower than the lightning; just like the winter warm.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
January 19 2014 09:01 GMT
#142
Ghosts... not even once.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
skzlime
Profile Joined July 2005
Hungary462 Posts
January 19 2014 15:13 GMT
#143
can't believe i'm still learning new things
life is balanced, L2P
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
January 19 2014 20:19 GMT
#144
I've also seen Sky use feedback in PvP (ht) and Shuttle in PvT (vessel).
En Taro Violet
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28781 Posts
January 19 2014 23:31 GMT
#145
On January 20 2014 00:13 skzlime wrote:
can't believe i'm still learning new things


I'm gonna post a replay of a trick soon that I've never seen anyone do!
Moderator
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
January 19 2014 23:49 GMT
#146
On January 20 2014 05:19 Stratos wrote:
I've also seen Sky use feedback in PvP (ht) and Shuttle in PvT (vessel).

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50343_Jaehoon_vs_sSak

jaehoon MC'd a vessel here (feedback is also very viable but micro required with everything else is pretty rough)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 20 2014 07:15 GMT
#147
On January 20 2014 08:49 Harem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2014 05:19 Stratos wrote:
I've also seen Sky use feedback in PvP (ht) and Shuttle in PvT (vessel).

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50343_Jaehoon_vs_sSak

jaehoon MC'd a vessel here (feedback is also very viable but micro required with everything else is pretty rough)


I keep thinking that if the game speed were lower (i.e. not always Fastest), some of the 'most unloved' units, many of whom are spellcasters, would be seen more.

I forget... didn't SC2 get rid of Fastest?



User was warned for being hilarious
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
January 20 2014 08:02 GMT
#148
the game used to be played on normal speed a long time ago but i think most people agree that fastest is best

sc2 faster is slightly faster than bw fastest
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28781 Posts
January 20 2014 12:36 GMT
#149
it was never played on normal by like, anyone. But blizzard insisted on "Fast" as their ladder game speed, and consequently there was like a year-ish where competitive standards weren't totally established and some would play fast and some fastest back then.

even in like 2006 when every single player on bnet played on fastest, blizzard refused to change the ladder speed because they believed the game was better on fast.
Moderator
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-20 18:38:39
January 20 2014 13:07 GMT
#150
On January 20 2014 21:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
it was never played on normal by like, anyone. But blizzard insisted on "Fast" as their ladder game speed, and consequently there was like a year-ish where competitive standards weren't totally established and some would play fast and some fastest back then.

even in like 2006 when every single player on bnet played on fastest, blizzard refused to change the ladder speed because they believed the game was better on fast.


I'm not certain I'd that. Maybe the game really was 'better' on Fast/more in-line with Blizzard's design intent at that speed.

But if many ppl don't want to play at that speed, you can't really make 'em. Not forever, anyway.

I remember a lot of younger players 'back in the day' saying stuff like, "I love Starcraft, but man, nothing happens for the first 4 minutes, I'm soooo bored early on." Apparently, working a very specific BO, scouting, stopping THEIR scouting, constructing wall-ins, doing or defending super-early rushes, yeah, none of that registers.

So, you pretty much HAVE to 5-pool 'em after they say that.


User was warned for being hilarious
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
January 20 2014 21:04 GMT
#151
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 20 2014 23:08 GMT
#152
On January 18 2014 09:16 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2014 08:40 BigFan wrote:
On December 28 2013 01:19 [[Starlight]] wrote:
I'm coming back to BW after being away for several years. Just curious as to the 'state of the game' in 2013 (almost 2014).

For myself, IIRC, the units I never seemed to find myself making were:

1. Queens
2. Dark Archons
3. Infested Terrans
4. Valks
5. Ghosts (don't know why, they can be pretty good)
6. Arbiters (okay yes, I should start using these more)
7. Scouts (do make these occasionally, just not often/not in big numbers)

Have things changed much since then, and some of these units are actually very popular now? If so, how are they usually employed?

Queens are good against terran mech since you can broodling tanks but I'm not sure how much it's done since I would say the timing to get them out and building energy is quite long and such. Still, an interesting unit.

Dark Archons have their use in maelstorm and mind control. I'm not sure how much mind control is used but you'll see a PvZ game now and then with maelstorm but not a lot though. I think feedback is pretty useful as well but haven't seen much use in the games I've watched. If anyone has a game with feedback, please link

Valks are used but only with certain builds. I think they were recently used in an SSL match if I'm not mistaken or I could be thinking of an older game. Personally, I think it's great against mutas, specifically if you can't deal with them with the whole turrets etc... I see valks as the corsair equivalent for terran in some ways. A marine+medic+valk combo is pretty strong if you have the macro to keep making units and micro for the splits against lurkers and such.

Infested terrans have their use in that zerO vs Kal game but I dunno about other games like it.
Arbiters are pretty much standard in late game PvT. It's rare to see a late game without them lol.
Ghosts are rare to see except maybe late late game TvT to try and nuke for position? Haven't seen games of this though.
Scouts are one of the least used units, probably due to speed and cost. If they had speed then they would be great to use but not being able to outrun the scourage for ex is problematic imo.

I play mainly terran but offrace as protoss since it's more relaxing and almost never zerg. I would say your list is pretty much the same as mine although my arbiter use is pretty low since I seem to forget that protoss has another tech path after getting stargate XD

On January 17 2014 07:24 rauk wrote:
they're hard to use and hard to get and require time to build energy and are useless after a single spell

whereas 11 mutas are relatively easy to get because you don't need to build a queens nest and research broodling, you have the spire for scourge anyways, are instantly useful after spawning, and after you kill some HT with your mutas you can use them for harass or fighting

while I agree with this, I think if the protoss is a good player, they'll babysit their hts so that they aren't easy to snipe and what they are about to be sniped, storm the location where the mutas are likely to retreat towards to at least hit some of them. Obviously it's difficult to do, just saying


if the protoss is a good player he'll chase your queens with +1 sairs. making a bunch of +1 sairs against 10 queens is an amazing investment but is only okay vs a couple of mutas that come out after a ton of hydras are already made. losing one or mutas isn't a big deal, losing 1 or 2 queens is huge

vs C level and a little better protosses i found that sniping HT with even just mutas is excessive/unnecessary, just 1a2a3a and spread your hydras vs storm and that's really all you need to win. basically just make stuff and amove works at C and below, no need to get fancy

hmm can't say much on the queens due to having only encountered them once before way back I think. ya, sniping isn't needed as much if you can spread out and micro.

On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm or deny this but fastest isn't that, well, fast lol.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
January 20 2014 23:42 GMT
#153
On January 21 2014 08:08 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm or deny this but fastest isn't that, well, fast lol.

I didn't say it was fast, I only conveyed what some Blizzard employee had apparently said. And for a 90's RTS it was pretty fast, compare it to the speed of Total Annihilation or Red Alert for example.
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
JohnChoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
1773 Posts
January 20 2014 23:45 GMT
#154
On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I played a fish fastest game with a #X5 setting. now that was hilariously fast haha
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 21 2014 00:59 GMT
#155
On January 21 2014 08:42 fencer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2014 08:08 BigFan wrote:
On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm or deny this but fastest isn't that, well, fast lol.

I didn't say it was fast, I only conveyed what some Blizzard employee had apparently said. And for a 90's RTS it was pretty fast, compare it to the speed of Total Annihilation or Red Alert for example.

well ya, I never said you did. Just commenting on the overall speed of fastest from my perspective ya, TA was slower in comparison. I think same for RA, but don't remember it well lol.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 23 2014 03:08 GMT
#156
On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm it, and I was hanging out on the Blizzard Starcraft forum for like a couple of years prior to release and for a couple of years after. I think they were surprised that Fastest became almost the only speed anyone would play (though you could find some games on Fast or Faster too).

I think a lot of ppl just gravitate to whatever is seen as the most EXTREEEEEEME, lol.

Probably if Blizzard had put in a speed called 'Hyper' that was 3x faster than Fastest, a lot of ppl would play it, maybe even insist on it.

Their micro and macro would then suck donkey lint, but they'd play it.


User was warned for being hilarious
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 23 2014 03:52 GMT
#157
On January 23 2014 12:08 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2014 06:04 fencer wrote:
I read somewhere that Blizzard originally added Fastest as a 'joke' speed just for giggles. Sort of like: "wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a setting where everything moves comically fast and noone can keep up with anything? I bet noone will ever use it anyway".

Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm it, and I was hanging out on the Blizzard Starcraft forum for like a couple of years prior to release and for a couple of years after. I think they were surprised that Fastest became almost the only speed anyone would play (though you could find some games on Fast or Faster too).

I think a lot of ppl just gravitate to whatever is seen as the most EXTREEEEEEME, lol.

Probably if Blizzard had put in a speed called 'Hyper' that was 3x faster than Fastest, a lot of ppl would play it, maybe even insist on it.

Their micro and macro would then suck donkey lint, but they'd play it.



I would love a hyper game mode XD
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 23 2014 07:23 GMT
#158
On January 23 2014 12:52 BigFan wrote:
I would love a hyper game mode XD

And a dozen cups of coffee to go with it.



User was warned for being hilarious
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
January 23 2014 10:03 GMT
#159
Scouts. Dark Archons, but their skills are really really useful, esp the one that is like Statis but you get to hit them, but it only works on organic units.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
January 23 2014 13:32 GMT
#160
On January 23 2014 12:08 [[Starlight]] wrote:I can't confirm it, and I was hanging out on the Blizzard Starcraft forum for like a couple of years prior to release and for a couple of years after. I think they were surprised that Fastest became almost the only speed anyone would play (though you could find some games on Fast or Faster too).

I think a lot of ppl just gravitate to whatever is seen as the most EXTREEEEEEME, lol.

Probably if Blizzard had put in a speed called 'Hyper' that was 3x faster than Fastest, a lot of ppl would play it, maybe even insist on it.

Their micro and macro would then suck donkey lint, but they'd play it.

Oh I wish there were replays from like 1998 of 'good' people playing. My only memories from back then is when I typed in "power overwhelming" on b.net and expected it to work. And constant backstabbing in 2v2; if you had the stronger army than your ally when you had almost won, it was more or less standard to unally at the last second and have the win for yourself.
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
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