Units You Never Bother Making? - Page 7

On December 28 2013 01:19 [[Starlight]] wrote:
I'm coming back to BW after being away for several years. Just curious as to the 'state of the game' in 2013 (almost 2014).

For myself, IIRC, the units I never seemed to find myself making were:

1. Queens
2. Dark Archons
3. Infested Terrans
4. Valks
5. Ghosts (don't know why, they can be pretty good)
6. Arbiters (okay yes, I should start using these more)
7. Scouts (do make these occasionally, just not often/not in big numbers)

Have things changed much since then, and some of these units are actually very popular now? If so, how are they usually employed?

On January 17 2014 07:24 rauk wrote:
they're hard to use and hard to get and require time to build energy and are useless after a single spell

whereas 11 mutas are relatively easy to get because you don't need to build a queens nest and research broodling, you have the spire for scourge anyways, are instantly useful after spawning, and after you kill some HT with your mutas you can use them for harass or fighting

On January 18 2014 08:40 BigFan wrote:

Queens are good against terran mech since you can broodling tanks but I'm not sure how much it's done since I would say the timing to get them out and building energy is quite long and such. Still, an interesting unit.

Dark Archons have their use in maelstorm and mind control. I'm not sure how much mind control is used but you'll see a PvZ game now and then with maelstorm but not a lot though. I think feedback is pretty useful as well but haven't seen much use in the games I've watched. If anyone has a game with feedback, please link

Valks are used but only with certain builds. I think they were recently used in an SSL match if I'm not mistaken or I could be thinking of an older game. Personally, I think it's great against mutas, specifically if you can't deal with them with the whole turrets etc... I see valks as the corsair equivalent for terran in some ways. A marine+medic+valk combo is pretty strong if you have the macro to keep making units and micro for the splits against lurkers and such.

Infested terrans have their use in that zerO vs Kal game but I dunno about other games like it.
Arbiters are pretty much standard in late game PvT. It's rare to see a late game without them lol.
Ghosts are rare to see except maybe late late game TvT to try and nuke for position? Haven't seen games of this though.
Scouts are one of the least used units, probably due to speed and cost. If they had speed then they would be great to use but not being able to outrun the scourage for ex is problematic imo.

I play mainly terran but offrace as protoss since it's more relaxing and almost never zerg. I would say your list is pretty much the same as mine although my arbiter use is pretty low since I seem to forget that protoss has another tech path after getting stargate XD


while I agree with this, I think if the protoss is a good player, they'll babysit their hts so that they aren't easy to snipe and what they are about to be sniped, storm the location where the mutas are likely to retreat towards to at least hit some of them. Obviously it's difficult to do, just saying

On January 18 2014 09:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ensnare is awesome though, should be used all the time, but you dont need it which is why you don't see it more.

On January 18 2014 09:37 rauk wrote:
TIL

id never have the balls to build queens vs mass sair

On January 18 2014 09:16 rauk wrote: losing one or two mutas isn't a big deal, losing 1 or 2 queens is huge

vs C level and a little better protosses i found that sniping HT with even just mutas is excessive/unnecessary, just 1a2a3a and spread your hydras vs storm and that's really all you need to win. basically just make stuff and amove works at C and below, no need to get fancy

On January 18 2014 11:37 [[Starlight]] wrote:

Hate to ask, but... why? Queens are no more expensive than mutas.

I mean, yeah, it'd suck/be extremely annoying if you lost a Queen that was @150+ mana before it got to do anything, but cost-wise, losing a 100/100 unit doesn't seem like a back-breaker, even in midgame.



If it's that easy, the win percentages for Z in ZvP should be really high. Are they?

I don't know if they are, this is why I ask.

On January 18 2014 09:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
erm countering queens with sairs is pretty silly. queens are actually a really good counter for corsairs, both because parasite lets you know where the army is and because ensnare allows you to escape it and trap them.

the problem with broodling against protoss is that, unlike terran who always has some tanks towards the edge of his army or whatever that you can target, protoss usually has his templars behind /together with a goon army. and if you cast broodling, and your queen dies before the broodling spawns, what actually happens is that that the broodling ends up not landing. (I think it's the only spell in bw to function like this!) If you try to broodling a templar protected by 12 goons, you'll very frequently find your queens dying without having successfully broodlinged anything. In addition there's the whole save up 150 energy thing.

Ensnare is awesome though, should be used all the time, but you dont need it which is why you don't see it more.

On January 18 2014 08:40 BigFan wrote:
Dark Archons have their use in maelstorm and mind control. I'm not sure how much mind control is used but you'll see a PvZ game now and then with maelstorm but not a lot though. I think feedback is pretty useful as well but haven't seen much use in the games I've watched. If anyone has a game with feedback, please link