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[H] Counter to 1 Fact Command Center in PvT?? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
July 30 2006 03:31 GMT
#21
unfortunately, 1 factory CC is a solid, straightforward strategy. There isn't really any sort of straightforward "counter" per se. ie 3 gateway bulldog doesn't work 100%, especially vs good players.

The most effective thing to do is simply double expand and have good macro. Continue expanding in the early game and have lots of observers around to spot vulture harass and such : ]

Try to download lots of PvT replays where you see the protoss simply overwhelm terran and such : ]
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
July 30 2006 04:53 GMT
#22
With regard to your scouting problem, one thing you can do is build 1 zeolot while the core is coming in. If your opponent isn't blocked in you can get it into their base sometimes (over a couple of dead marines probably) to scout the buildings, and if it is blocked or too well defended you can pull it back (have it chill near the natural perhaps) and that way you'll see the moment he moves out for either a fe or a rush.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
July 30 2006 05:22 GMT
#23
On July 30 2006 03:32 amoxicilline wrote:
I don't get how you can go dt drop AFTER having scouted 1 fac cc, this will just be late ...

and I don't think going dt drop every game , hoping he goes 1 fac cc is a good idea too

u dont have to go a super fast dt dorp dude..

u can dt drop after ur expo.

alot of terrans get slow acad after fact cc cuz they are just powering/macroing

and read my post i said u dont have to cheese to win vs fact cc. just have to have superior macro/timing to win
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Protoss-Fighting
Profile Joined October 2005
United States814 Posts
July 30 2006 05:28 GMT
#24
On July 30 2006 13:53 micronesia wrote:
With regard to your scouting problem, one thing you can do is build 1 zeolot while the core is coming in. If your opponent isn't blocked in you can get it into their base sometimes (over a couple of dead marines probably) to scout the buildings, and if it is blocked or too well defended you can pull it back (have it chill near the natural perhaps) and that way you'll see the moment he moves out for either a fe or a rush.


if they dont wall they get atleast 3-4 rines
aka NrG.GoDz, nH.GoDz, GoDz[h20], GoDz[sK] (regretably) you get the picture. :p
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
July 30 2006 05:52 GMT
#25
On July 30 2006 14:28 Protoss-Fighting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2006 13:53 micronesia wrote:
With regard to your scouting problem, one thing you can do is build 1 zeolot while the core is coming in. If your opponent isn't blocked in you can get it into their base sometimes (over a couple of dead marines probably) to scout the buildings, and if it is blocked or too well defended you can pull it back (have it chill near the natural perhaps) and that way you'll see the moment he moves out for either a fe or a rush.


if they dont wall they get atleast 3-4 rines


That varies a lot. Sometimes the zeolot surprises them, sometimes they have plenty to block it with.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
July 30 2006 09:00 GMT
#26
That's dumb. Any reasonable fast robo build ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=26250 ) should catch his fact cc if your probe doesn't. Also read the tip in there - keep a probe near your expo since so many terrans do fact cc anyway, you can make the nexus much faster if he does.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
GuYuTe-
Profile Joined February 2005
United States550 Posts
July 30 2006 09:43 GMT
#27
On July 29 2006 22:13 Protoss-Fighting wrote:
you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production, and macro like hell, dont waste to much money on canons and stuff, you need every unit you can get, + more, stay at his choke when he comes out attack with goons, when he sieges go back, this stalls time for reinforcement units, also 2 stormers in shuttle helps alot.


Best solution. Fast carrier can work too.
DaZe
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden2111 Posts
July 30 2006 10:09 GMT
#28
gates in opponents base.
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
July 30 2006 11:02 GMT
#29
On July 30 2006 18:00 GrandInquisitor wrote:
That's dumb. Any reasonable fast robo build ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=26250 ) should catch his fact cc if your probe doesn't. Also read the tip in there - keep a probe near your expo since so many terrans do fact cc anyway, you can make the nexus much faster if he does.


Dont you mean near his expo?
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
July 30 2006 11:08 GMT
#30
Verdict: Just double-expand? Thanks everyone
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
July 30 2006 11:19 GMT
#31
On July 30 2006 20:02 fusionsdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2006 18:00 GrandInquisitor wrote:
That's dumb. Any reasonable fast robo build ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=26250 ) should catch his fact cc if your probe doesn't. Also read the tip in there - keep a probe near your expo since so many terrans do fact cc anyway, you can make the nexus much faster if he does.


Dont you mean near his expo?


At your expo. As soon as you scout the fact cc, you can then put your nexus down immediately (cancelling building goons if necessary) with the probe that's sitting at your nat. It saves the time it takes to pull a probe from mining and have it move to the nat.
epidion
Profile Joined November 2004
United States316 Posts
July 30 2006 13:49 GMT
#32
If you double expo, the biggest thing is to know when to make units/probes/gates. As soon as you see FE, cut off probes/goons and make your 2 nexii. Then pump 2gate goon with probes until both expos come up, then maynard your probes and stop all probe/goon produciton. Put down 4-6 more gateways and start massing up goons. This is the best way to stop him from doing a timing push after he has been macroing off of his 6 facts.
http://www.proxiteam.net
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
July 30 2006 14:31 GMT
#33
On July 30 2006 20:08 Darknite721 wrote:
Verdict: Just double-expand? Thanks everyone


its your choice. Are you more comfortable with macro and large scale unit control, or more confident in micro and harass? For the first you double expo, for the second you expo and tech to dt or reaver and harass the crap out of him while expoing again.
ahk-gosu
Profile Joined July 2004
Korea (South)2099 Posts
July 30 2006 23:45 GMT
#34
On July 30 2006 18:43 GuYuTe- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2006 22:13 Protoss-Fighting wrote:
you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production, and macro like hell, dont waste to much money on canons and stuff, you need every unit you can get, + more, stay at his choke when he comes out attack with goons, when he sieges go back, this stalls time for reinforcement units, also 2 stormers in shuttle helps alot.


Best solution. Fast carrier can work too.


now that i think about it.

1 expo with fast carriers can really fuck them up lol
Micro.Macro.Scouting.Harassment.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25991 Posts
July 31 2006 00:04 GMT
#35
Stove.
Moderator
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
July 31 2006 00:35 GMT
#36
On July 31 2006 09:04 Chill wrote:
Stove.


This one definitely wins
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
July 31 2006 00:47 GMT
#37
On July 31 2006 08:45 ahk-gosu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2006 18:43 GuYuTe- wrote:
On July 29 2006 22:13 Protoss-Fighting wrote:
you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production, and macro like hell, dont waste to much money on canons and stuff, you need every unit you can get, + more, stay at his choke when he comes out attack with goons, when he sieges go back, this stalls time for reinforcement units, also 2 stormers in shuttle helps alot.


Best solution. Fast carrier can work too.


now that i think about it.

1 expo with fast carriers can really fuck them up lol


Only if you hide it very well though right?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-07-31 01:40:44
July 31 2006 01:27 GMT
#38
I'm asking all you guys that said double expo, why you said that rather then just single expo (2 nexus) as the toss macro heavy response. Especially since this is bascially what the thread starter seems to have taken from this thread.

Of course, consider the terran option of an early timing attack, or 3 nexus is easily better as it allows you to power more while remaining safe as long as to react properly to drops or whatever.

edit- To quote protoss-fighting (nothing against you), "you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production." So let me get this right, your spending 400mins on another nexus early, and your slowing down on probe production? And your going to benefit from this how? For those of you who may say dont slow down on probe production, well then your going to spend 400mins on another nexus and more minerals on more probes. Now it seems pretty clear you'll likely have problems vs. a timed attack.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
July 31 2006 01:51 GMT
#39
On July 31 2006 10:27 Knickknack wrote:
I'm asking all you guys that said double expo, why you said that rather then just single expo (2 nexus) as the toss macro heavy response. Especially since this is bascially what the thread starter seems to have taken from this thread.

Of course, consider the terran option of an early timing attack, or 3 nexus is easily better as it allows you to power more while remaining safe as long as to react properly to drops or whatever.

edit- To quote protoss-fighting (nothing against you), "you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production." So let me get this right, your spending 400mins on another nexus early, and your slowing down on probe production? And your going to benefit from this how? For those of you who may say dont slow down on probe production, well then your going to spend 400mins on another nexus and more minerals on more probes. Now it seems pretty clear you'll likely have problems vs. a timed attack.


The people who are saying to double expo are right. You are right that it seems counterproductive since you are going to have to cut down on something else in order to pull it off. However, this strategy is based off of the fundamental most important part of the pvt matchup: The terran is less mobile than the protoss. Terran is really good at bunkering in, as a result, the protoss will always be 1 step ahead in taking over the map. The toss needs to be ahead on expos, and the double expo strat will work. The only reason why you need to cut down on units and/or probes at certain times is to even out your stength so you aren't especially susceptible to a timing push.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Cedric
Profile Joined September 2004
Hungary186 Posts
July 31 2006 02:14 GMT
#40
dt dropp
Hungary Fighting :P
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