by the time i scout it his build, he already has SCV's Maynarding...

By that time, my 2nd nexus is still warping...are you sure there's no easier way?

ROOTheognis

United States4482 Posts

July 29 2006 12:37 GMT

double expo and macro good.
dt drop into double expo
reaver into double expo

hehe fact cc is a strong macro build but its quite weak vs early cheese like that because they have too many places to defend

ROOTheognis

United States4482 Posts

July 29 2006 12:37 GMT

or just bulldog

Drowsy

United States4876 Posts

July 29 2006 12:38 GMT

No, there isn't, you'll just have to learn to double expo and out macro him, and if you are new or have poor mechanical skills, you'll pretty much have to go allin with a shuttle of zeals and a group of goons, though dts or reavers might be able to get a fast win for you if you can keep him from scouting it.

Seraphim

United States4467 Posts

July 29 2006 12:38 GMT

hmm....thanks

Could please give me the build order for DT Drop, DT rush, and reaver build?

I never do these, because I never know the build orders...I always play straight-up...maybe that's why I'm losing so much...

Protoss-Fighting

United States814 Posts

July 29 2006 13:13 GMT

you need to x2 expo and slow down on probe production, and macro like hell, dont waste to much money on canons and stuff, you need every unit you can get, + more, stay at his choke when he comes out attack with goons, when he sieges go back, this stalls time for reinforcement units, also 2 stormers in shuttle helps alot.

ROOTheognis

United States4482 Posts

July 29 2006 13:35 GMT

u dont have to cheese to win vs fact cc. u just need to have good timing and good macro.

in all honesty if u sense a fact cc coming by seeing a third depot before 2nd fact (a hint to a 1 fact build) go 1 gate range into expo. ur nexus will be up before his CC lands and ull have a quick macro advantage.

skyglow1

New Zealand3962 Posts

July 29 2006 14:29 GMT

#10

I think the most important thing when facing 1 fact CC is scouting. When your first goons arrive at his ramp, you should be thinking very hard about what build he could be going. How many marines are there? 4? If its 5+ then its probably going to be a joyo or FD rush, but theres a chance it won't be. If its 4 with 1 early tank then its probably going to be fast expo or drop. It could be a 2 fact build though, just keep checking how many units he has on his ramp. If he has siege early then thats probably 1 fact cc or it could be drop (less viable on cliffless nat maps of course).

If you suspect 1 fact cc, you either go on the extreme offensive or more "passive" way. I prefer the passive macro way, where you immediately cut probe production and goons if you really need to and get a 2nd expo. Then pump probes like mad and add a large number of gateways. You could also add a third gate and robo to try bulldog and break his defense, but I find that more risky.

If you choose the macro way, its important you contain him with your army. You can let him have his expo, just don't let him harass you with vults which is a big problem when you have 3 bases. Obs should be able to see drops coming too if he tries that. Make him feel really choked and blocked in by always keeping your army just beyond his.

Other things you can do are if you have started your expo, add a robo and go reaver or 4 dt drop to harass the crap out of him after he has expoed. While you doing this you expo to get 3 bases.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

July 29 2006 15:06 GMT

#11

really, if you scout it it shouldn't be a big problem, you seem to be saying scouting is the problem, just learn how to read the signs really. if he FEs dble expo and mass gates. also it doesn't hurt to do storm drops to hurt his eco. I will just slow him down more and allow you to expo and get carrs or arbs.

micronesia

United States24755 Posts

July 29 2006 16:49 GMT

#12

If you take the passive, double expo approach to responding to his fe, then if he's good you might expect him to do a strong timing push. Assuming you hold it off by making the right call about when to stop probe production, how many gates to add etc, immediately work on taking over the map while he recovers from the failed push and remains contained.

itzme_petey

United States1400 Posts

July 29 2006 18:26 GMT

#13

dts drops was the best answer. slow him down as much as possible.

amoxicilline

France1124 Posts

July 29 2006 18:32 GMT

#14

I don't get how you can go dt drop AFTER having scouted 1 fac cc, this will just be late ...

and I don't think going dt drop every game , hoping he goes 1 fac cc is a good idea too

micronesia

United States24755 Posts

July 29 2006 18:47 GMT

#15

On July 30 2006 03:32 amoxicilline wrote:
I don't get how you can go dt drop AFTER having scouted 1 fac cc, this will just be late ...

and I don't think going dt drop every game , hoping he goes 1 fac cc is a good idea too

The easiest solution is to keep your scouting worker alive long enough to see his factory count or number of supply depots etc. Also, the intel you get from you first zeolot or goon going up his blocked ramp can tell you whether or not to go for dt drop, and it isn't too late yet at that point if you like getting the robotics facility fairly early.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

July 30 2006 02:28 GMT

#16

dt drops seem to gas heavy to me TT;; you can contain and slow his expo immensly by having 1 dt outside in the expo area b/c it will be a little b4 he gets scan.

Seraphim

United States4467 Posts

July 30 2006 02:42 GMT

#17

Hmm...so bascially you're saying to keep my scouting probe alive is very important? Basically, after I know where he is, I just let it die :D....maybe that's not so good.

Can anyone tell me a list of certain buildings that are built, what certain builds could occur?

For example, Yochibow mentioned that if he built a 3rd depot before 2nd fact, it's fast expo. Thanks Yochibow! Could you please what other signs could lead to otehr builds? Thanks so much