EPTWhy might a Terran be better at TvP than at TvZ? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such?
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Why might a Terran be better at TvP than at TvZ? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such? | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On January 18 2019 14:14 Alpha-NP- wrote: Why might a Terran be better at TvZ than at TvP? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such? Why might a Terran be better at TvP than at TvZ? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such? I don't main terran but having played it, I think higher apm terrans tend to prefer TvZ because there is more harass potential. But there are many terrans who don't have really high apm who are good at TvZ (like Forgg and Mind from what I can remember) so I don't think it is very important as a factor. | ||
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
On January 18 2019 14:14 Alpha-NP- wrote: Why might a Terran be better at TvZ than at TvP? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such? Why might a Terran be better at TvP than at TvZ? What kind of skills and abilities would make it such? If you're better at TvP than TvZ, something is wrong with you. Joking aside, here are some ideas: The most obvious thing would be: If you're good at controlling marines (and vessels), you're better at TvZ. If you're good at controlling vults and tanks, you're better at TvP. Additionally: If you're a natural multi-tasker and aggressive player, the setup of the TvZ matchup suits you better (Terran has to keep Zerg busy in most games, and Terran has the stronger army most of the time of the game). If you can work towards and handle a single big push well, then the setup of TvP suits you better (most of the time Terran has to survive and pour it all into one well executed attack, Terran's army is weaker for the most part of the game). Something else that makes a matchup difficult might be a specific weakness of a player in a recurrent situation of that matchup. Often you hear players say that they cannot deal with specific units/situations, e.g. mutas/lurkers/defilers in TvZ, or reaverdrop/arbiters/carriers and just pushing with a big mech army in TvP. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:21 Highgamer wrote: If you're better at TvP than TvZ, something is wrong with you. Yeah it's hard to imagine but I've seen some players, particularly lower apm players, who were better in TvP. It doesn't take as much apm to do well in TvP, where I think control and executing things properly (not making mistakes, laying mines, etc) is more important. TvZ is more about multitask and ability to control the map I think. Macro is probably almost equally important in both matchups, but maybe a bit more important in TvP. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
On January 19 2019 16:57 Anc13nt wrote: Yeah it's hard to imagine but I've seen some players, particularly lower apm players, who were better in TvP. It doesn't take as much apm to do well in TvP, where I think control and executing things properly (not making mistakes, laying mines, etc) is more important. TvZ is more about multitask and ability to control the map I think. Macro is probably almost equally important in both matchups, but maybe a bit more important in TvP. I completely get that point. I had my share of sub 30% winrate or something in TvZ when I started out with BW and I couldn't understand why TvZ was considered the "easier" matchup for Terran. Maybe it's just my experience but: When you get over a certain mechanical hurdle and get behind the basic rules of the matchup (what to do when and why), then you will experience countless situations where you feel that "yeah, my bio-army just won that engagement for me" because it just shreds lings/lurkers/mutas if you stim on time (given "standard" amounts of units that face each other in normal games). Zergs really have to defend narrowly in that matchup to survive certain standard situations. It's still hell of a matchup when evenly matched, obviously, but sometimes you feel dirty for winning a fight just because Zerg overstepped a little bit or because one little mistake can lead to Zerg's doom. On the other hand, that feeling of living one step away from death, I experience that in TvP a lot. So I'd be interested in some high-level TvP-ace's answers to your question as well. | ||
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teapot2019teapot
4 Posts
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AF0x
United States59 Posts
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On January 20 2019 00:39 Highgamer wrote: I completely get that point. I had my share of sub 30% winrate or something in TvZ when I started out with BW and I couldn't understand why TvZ was considered the "easier" matchup for Terran. Maybe it's just my experience but: When you get over a certain mechanical hurdle and get behind the basic rules of the matchup (what to do when and why), then you will experience countless situations where you feel that "yeah, my bio-army just won that engagement for me" because it just shreds lings/lurkers/mutas if you stim on time (given "standard" amounts of units that face each other in normal games). Zergs really have to defend narrowly in that matchup to survive certain standard situations. It's still hell of a matchup when evenly matched, obviously, but sometimes you feel dirty for winning a fight just because Zerg overstepped a little bit or because one little mistake can lead to Zerg's doom. On the other hand, that feeling of living one step away from death, I experience that in TvP a lot. So I'd be interested in some high-level TvP-ace's answers to your question as well. This is a great answer from my own POV. ZvT and TvP have to both hit a certain timing in order to feel powerful but not overcommit if they were wrong in reading. If you miss that timing by a few workers or not enough gas or something like that you instantly feel very far behind for what seems like a relatively minor mistake, if not dead. In fact I feel like the first 8 minutes of ZvT are the hardest in the game on average. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
What kind of skills and abilities would you describe Zerg in ZvT as taking for someone new to 1v1? | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:21 Highgamer wrote: If you're better at TvP than TvZ, something is wrong with you. Joking aside, here are some ideas: The most obvious thing would be: If you're good at controlling marines (and vessels), you're better at TvZ. If you're good at controlling vults and tanks, you're better at TvP. Additionally: If you're a natural multi-tasker and aggressive player, the setup of the TvZ matchup suits you better (Terran has to keep Zerg busy in most games, and Terran has the stronger army most of the time of the game). If you can work towards and handle a single big push well, then the setup of TvP suits you better (most of the time Terran has to survive and pour it all into one well executed attack, Terran's army is weaker for the most part of the game). Something else that makes a matchup difficult might be a specific weakness of a player in a recurrent situation of that matchup. Often you hear players say that they cannot deal with specific units/situations, e.g. mutas/lurkers/defilers in TvZ, or reaverdrop/arbiters/carriers and just pushing with a big mech army in TvP. I agree with your first point haha. At higher levels TvP is so much harder than TvZ. One mistake like sieging your tanks late and it's a guaranteed loss whereas you can be behind the entire game in TvZ but one big dropship attack can win you the game for example. | ||
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MightyBeast
117 Posts
On January 23 2019 14:09 Alpha-NP- wrote: What kind of skills and abilities would you describe Zerg in ZvP as taking for someone new to 1v1? (I heard denying scouting and hidden tech is important) What kind of skills and abilities would you describe Zerg in ZvT as taking for someone new to 1v1? It really depends on how you want to play the game. A good place to start would be the differences between 3 hatch hydra and 5 hatch hydra or 2 hatch muta and 3 hatch muta. Whatever your style, aggressive or patient, zerg has something to offer u in both matchups. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3545 Posts
any recommendation on a VOD to learn 1 gate expand builds in PvZ? (one that s relatively recent to account for the normal Z timings like 3hatch hydras. 3hatch spire to 5hatch hydras etc...). Barring that, any general advice? Thanks! | ||
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[Fin]Vittu
Canada507 Posts
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
On January 26 2019 03:10 WGT-Baal wrote: hey folks, any recommendation on a VOD to learn 1 gate expand builds in PvZ? (one that s relatively recent to account for the normal Z timings like 3hatch hydras. 3hatch spire to 5hatch hydras etc...). Barring that, any general advice? Thanks! Bisu is (was?) the best at executing this build, and as far as I know the originator as well. Just look up his games from November or December 2017 on his youtube channel. You should be able to find what you are looking for. I remember him trying it a lot when he would play versus Larva. I am at work right now and cannot peruse youtube to find any VODS specifically for you  | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3545 Posts
On January 27 2019 04:20 GunSlinger wrote: Bisu is (was?) the best at executing this build, and as far as I know the originator as well. Just look up his games from November or December 2017 on his youtube channel. You should be able to find what you are looking for. I remember him trying it a lot when he would play versus Larva. I am at work right now and cannot peruse youtube to find any VODS specifically for you that s ok that s already very helpful thanks! I did find some VODs from him, and from snow too (if anybody else s interested in this style) | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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