EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 250
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 28 2016 01:04 ProMeTheus112 wrote: As Protoss I had this problem a bit later in games, figured my preferred answer was making some scouts^^ These last few posts in the thread have me headscratching a bit... are ppl really losing to 'guardian rushes' and the like a lot? 'Cuz I almost never see guards in my games... and probably 98% of pro games I've watched. And when I do see it in pro games, it usually doesn't work. Is it like a recent shift in the meta or something?  | ||
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Scarbo
294 Posts
On February 28 2016 11:37 [[Starlight]] wrote: These last few posts in the thread have me headscratching a bit... are ppl really losing to 'guardian rushes' and the like a lot? 'Cuz I almost never see guards in my games... and probably 98% of pro games I've watched. And when I do see it in pro games, it usually doesn't work. Is it like a recent shift in the meta or something? It's common at lower levels (iccup), since the unit has very low micro requirements and its a relatively unexpected strategy. The guy that posted doesn't seem to be low level though, but maybe he got a streak of guardian games. | ||
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WinterViewbot420
345 Posts
On February 28 2016 11:50 Scarbo wrote: It's common at lower levels (iccup), since the unit has very low micro requirements and its a relatively unexpected strategy. The guy that posted doesn't seem to be low level though, but maybe he got a streak of guardian games. I just started BW about two months ago and I'm only E on Fish. I'm definitely low level. I think it's just part of being shitty at the game and not understanding the matchups enough yet. I've watched the game for years but never played it so I know what's going on when I see it, but I have very bad judgement beyond my first scout unless it's something super strange. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8764 Posts
guardians hardly get used by pros for a reason; it is impossible to get them out at a timing when the opponent has nothing to deal with it (both toss and terran). the only realistic timing you have for guardians is late game when you have some left over mutas that can no longer do any damage and a decent amount of resources has already been exhausted on both sides. a couple of guardians at that point can really be cost effective because of the damage they do and because they force the opponent to start building a couple of units to deal with the guardians again and thus throwing them off their game plan. if youre dying to guardians before you even have a 3rd up it means youve just been too passive around the map. it means you let zerg secure a 4th base, get a hive up, get up a greater spire, let his mutas sit idly, and probably let him take all the upgrades and tech he wants for defilers, lurkers and easy 5ths and 6ths. essentially it means you did nothing around the map to pressure him | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On February 28 2016 11:37 [[Starlight]] wrote: These last few posts in the thread have me headscratching a bit... are ppl really losing to 'guardian rushes' and the like a lot? 'Cuz I almost never see guards in my games... and probably 98% of pro games I've watched. And when I do see it in pro games, it usually doesn't work. Is it like a recent shift in the meta or something? no no for me guardian if I lose to them or partly to them is rarely midgame if I fallen really behind, but late game yeah some Z make nice use of them especially if they kept some of their mutas like evilfatsh1t said I do weird stuff too so I guess it makes some Z want to make guardians vs me sometimes^^ most of the time I keep corsair count quite low for example | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 28 2016 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: you should never be losing to surprise guardians unless youve fallen behind a lot guardians hardly get used by pros for a reason; it is impossible to get them out at a timing when the opponent has nothing to deal with it (both toss and terran). the only realistic timing you have for guardians is late game when you have some left over mutas that can no longer do any damage and a decent amount of resources has already been exhausted on both sides. a couple of guardians at that point can really be cost effective because of the damage they do and because they force the opponent to start building a couple of units to deal with the guardians again and thus throwing them off their game plan. if youre dying to guardians before you even have a 3rd up it means youve just been too passive around the map. it means you let zerg secure a 4th base, get a hive up, get up a greater spire, let his mutas sit idly, and probably let him take all the upgrades and tech he wants for defilers, lurkers and easy 5ths and 6ths. essentially it means you did nothing around the map to pressure him All of that plus guardians just cost a whole lotta gas.  And on the few pro games where I've seen guard usage, it's weird... you see guys like Jaedong very occasionally make 'em, but then they don't make any air units to cover the guardians. Guardians get sent in by themselves, get cut to pieces by just a couple or three wraiths or whatever, guardian attack fails. It's like they bank entirely on the surprise factor of a guardian attack, and have nothing to fall back on if the other player has anything at all to deal with the guards. Plus the guards are too slow to run away (well), so they pretty much get completely wiped out. So much gas lost for little to nothing.  Would be interesting to see what an ESCORTED guardian attack looks like, but never see one. Bummer. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On February 27 2016 22:07 B-royal wrote: How to deal with guardians? What are we talking about? Standard ZvT or two hatch opening? If just standard ZvT, you should have two vessels by now, just let them irradiate each other and fly over the guardians. Just watch out for scourge. Else get a couple of wraiths and again pay attention to scourge. The only time they'd go for this in a standard game is if you failed to kill his mutalisks. If you are aggressive enough in the mid game to reduce his mutalisk number to only a few it would be an undue investment. If you're talking about a two hatch opening, I saw scan on his stream go for 3 port wraith with cloak, which netted him the win. (3 barracks, sufficient amount of turrets => factory => starports, no vessels) You should get some wraiths against guardians. You can patrol micro down the scourge. You can also use your one irradiate on the devourer if he gets one of those. | ||
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WinterViewbot420
345 Posts
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
On February 28 2016 12:19 WinterViewbot420 wrote: I just started BW about two months ago and I'm only E on Fish. I'm definitely low level. I think it's just part of being shitty at the game and not understanding the matchups enough yet. I've watched the game for years but never played it so I know what's going on when I see it, but I have very bad judgement beyond my first scout unless it's something super strange. for foreigners, E is not really low level. and after 2 month, thats pretty impressive. | ||
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ArmadA[NaS]
United States347 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6781 Posts
post number 3,no even 30 melee win to play ladder,so how u did it ? | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6781 Posts
On March 01 2016 00:54 f10eqq wrote: WinterViewbot what's your id on Fish? E rank after 2 months is really impressive- LancerX, for example, is only a break-even E rank player and he's probly one of the top foreigners. proly cuz lancer doesnt dodge anyone,u cant really get more playing vs pros or semipros. | ||
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WinterViewbot420
345 Posts
On March 01 2016 03:27 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: E rank ? that were your stats no long ago http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/504079-i-have-an-emblem-on-fish post number 3,no even 30 melee win to play ladder,so how u did it ? I'm in a clan now and had to switch IDs. I'm a retard and didn't know you could change your IGN so we just rolled with it and added the new one to the clan | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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Atom[Bomb]
Sweden108 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On March 03 2016 00:07 Atom[Bomb] wrote: I think I was B rank and started the following season as C- if I remember correctly. Hey atom, you should come online sometime :D | ||
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Atom[Bomb]
Sweden108 Posts
On March 03 2016 01:56 B-royal wrote: Hey atom, you should come online sometime :D Indeed, I need to practice again(registered for Scandinavia in the nation league) So expect to see me online more often  | ||
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sickkungen
Sweden179 Posts
On February 28 2016 12:19 WinterViewbot420 wrote: I just started BW about two months ago and I'm only E on Fish. I'm definitely low level. I think it's just part of being shitty at the game and not understanding the matchups enough yet. I've watched the game for years but never played it so I know what's going on when I see it, but I have very bad judgement beyond my first scout unless it's something super strange. nS.miku 7-114 praisemiku 17-120 Melee games aswell of which most games are not even close to ladder level. I'm sure you are E. | ||
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sickkungen
Sweden179 Posts
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