|
On July 17 2014 08:46 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2014 18:02 GeckoXp wrote:On July 15 2014 17:46 Foxxan wrote:On July 15 2014 17:37 upro)wraith wrote:On July 14 2014 06:42 Foxxan wrote:
I remember before the arbiter meta, terran were way more offensive.
With my knowledge i take it that Terran can be offensive but if they go offensive mode, skip the tech and turret defence, now, when the arbiter comes into play it will be devastating for terran!
Is this somewhat correct? how do you define aggressive? do you mean 2 base timing attacks, 3 base timing attacks? or harass heavy? I think you can consider how Mong play aggressive, and also fantasy. Some protoss builds make it so hard to be aggressive, like 2 base arbiters. I meant harass heavy. I know Mong can like to play agressive, at the same time i see him go the 3base timing attack quite frequently to. Will watch him more, havent watched him that much probably. And will check out Fantasy in tvp now, havent rly watched him much actually. Define before Arbiter meta. Arbiter recalls and Stasis is something I remember for a long time, even though not used as early as it is now. Arbiters appear nowadays in the mid game already, back in the older days it took until the late game for them to be built. Also, maps like Lost Temple with Cliffs, or maps like Gaia, which offered multiple pathways for Vultures and more open Third expansions supported a harassment heavy play. If these maps were still somewhat popular, maybe the style would change as well. Before 2006 i believe arbiters were never made. Scienve vessels were never made either. In protoss vs terran. No, not even in super lategame. At this time i felt the action occured earlier and more consistent. The skill level were lower ofcourse on the players so its really hard to say how much the arbiter affects the agression from terran. It was really fun playing at this time, that i do know. Maps, i dont have good view on that.
Never is really a strong statement. Nal_rA's massive recall was played in August 2004, that's about ten years ago. Pimpest Plays was published a few months after, hence I'm quite sure a lot of less skilled players still tried to use Arbiters two years earlier than you assume. The Stove was first mentioned in 2002 as well. Hence: "never" - not sure. Especially in super late game with both sides having split the map, Arbiters were not that uncommon (even if it was mostly to ridicule lesser opponents). Maybe not in professional BW, but I definitely remembered seeing them in amateur leagues. It wasn't as exciting or as planned and Carriers were mostly the solution, but I already saw them.
What do you consider as BW? If you also consider Mucho and Fastest Maps, Arbiter had been an essential part of BW for more than fourteen years, or as soon as these maps were developed. <- besides the point.
@ Chef: Yes, I agree with you. The first word I wasn't sure about was "before Arbiter" and the second part was "Meta Game". I had the same thought, Lost Temple in particular was aweful in terms of macro games. Either Protoss was aggressive really early on, or Terran was knocking on your door step. Also, a lot easier to mass Carriers with island expansions and Terran unable to multitask well enough to take down island + carriers, than going straight for Arbiters while fighting the narrow center temple walls.
Same went for Dark Swarm I guess, I am not sure about that either. I really haven't played Lost Temple up until early 2003, so I probably missed a lot of competitive 1v1 "Meta Game". This word really bugs me in this context. See what I wrote about Possi games, people saw Recalls as the way to go on these maps; then again these maps are entirely different and probably besides the point completely. It's really interesting to remember seeing Nal_rA's recall, I really was surprised pros would not use them regularly in the late game, given that they were, well, pros. Dark Swarm was entirely different though, I remember Protoss using Disruption Web more often than Zerg would use Swarm. Yellow's replay from 2003 was mind blowing to me, or Mondragon vs. Cope in some minor match a few months (maybe even weeks?) after with a similar usage of the spell.
These hindsight discussions are really awkward though. Few replays, even less VODs and you tend to mix up years from a decade ago lol 8[
|
Is the ffd 2 fact (3 tank 6 rine) actually beatable with a 21 nex or a 3 goon fe pvt? People always say it is but I think they are full of shit.
|
On July 17 2014 18:03 puppykiller wrote:
Is the ffd 2 fact (3 tank 6 rine) actually beatable with a 21 nex or a 3 goon fe pvt? People always say it is but I think they are full of shit.
Yeah it's definitely beatable, you need to micro the goons really well and get up to 4 gates and your obs out asap, it's no guaranteed victory or anything but it's not impossible.
|
You know of any vods of it?
|
|
|
you dont give him the space to get an army like that in the first place
plague/dark swarm and zergling/ hydra armies would have done fine though. seems like from your post he had no vultures meaning no spidermines
|
|
|
Yo thx bro 
|
|
|
On July 20 2014 01:32 Ty2 wrote:
How do you beat mass Valkyrie and mass Siege Tank. This Terran guy just did it to me and I let all of my clumped Queens to Brood his tanks die in less than 2 seconds to the Valkyries. Excuse me while I weep Zerg tears.
WHO DID THAT TO YOU? There is some guy who always does that shit but I can't remember his name.
|
also, guys, how does TvZ work? Tell me everything from start to finish.
|
On July 30 2014 04:37 ninazerg wrote:
also, guys, how does TvZ work? Tell me everything from start to finish.
Bunker rush into vult drop into wraiths into MnM into mech transition.
|
Watch a single TvZ vod. Learn the bo the terran did in that game. Do it 50 times on ladder. Win all 50 games. Neglect learning more about the matchup when you realize that there is no need. Feel bad.
|
ok cool, so how does pvz work? Tell me everything in excruciating detail.
|
Well the first rule of PvZ is to tell yourself that it is your best matchup rather than PvT and PvP. After you have convinced yourself of this there are a few ways to win. The first is to lose your probe before the zerg makes a lair. Make sure to make it look like the zerg did a good job killing your probe and it wasn't intentional. If a zerg kills your probe fast he will get excited because he gets to use the 3 hatch hydra build order that he practiced in single player a few times. You don't want to die to this strategy so make sure to build 5 cannons. Then make 4 gates and attack the zerg with speedlots until he is dead.
The other way to win PvZ is to do a build you saw bisu do on stream with corsairs and DT. Shortly after this point you will take your third. If the zerg manages to kill you while you are taking your third you lose. If he doesn't you just want to make a 200/200 army and kill the zerg when he takes his 5th. This might not work but if it doesn't that is ok because PvZ is a "hard" matchup. There is always 9/9, 10/12 gate and that cool 1 base tech build you learned but can never seem to pull off.
|
On July 30 2014 04:33 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 01:32 Ty2 wrote:
How do you beat mass Valkyrie and mass Siege Tank. This Terran guy just did it to me and I let all of my clumped Queens to Brood his tanks die in less than 2 seconds to the Valkyries. Excuse me while I weep Zerg tears. WHO DID THAT TO YOU? There is some guy who always does that shit but I can't remember his name.
Qikz is the name you're looking for.
|
How do you beat super turtle zerg on Fighting Spirit in PvZ. Here's the game: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=55755
A couple things:
I built so many cannons b/c he was on 2 hatch with a fast hydra den, so I thought he was going for a hydra bust, but instead he just turtled up on three bases. I also didn't really harrass w/ corsair b/c he had so many spores and just sat w/ hydras. I tried what I usually do vs turtlers and tried to out greed them- should I have just went for a timing w/ reavers/goon or something? I really have no idea what im doing lol.
Edit: The replay is pretty long might want to x4 it.
|
He was on three hatch, two bases. Cannons are a good response to that, but you built them late  In addition, you didn't scout the front of his natural where he had like 7 sunken colonies. If you see that many colonies he's severely hurt his economy and is probably not going to be attacking any time soon, so you're safe to take a third immediately.
The purpose of your first corsair is for scouting, you should have kept it around his base more to see exactly what he was doing. Because he had no lair and had gone three hatch hydra into a third base with a million sunken colonies, you could easily have dropped DT in his main and wrecked that (no lair = no scourge, so he can't easily defend drops. He didn't make spore/sunk in his main at the time of writing).
If you're going to stay on two bases (not the end of the world) you need to build more gateways around the time you build your templar archives. On two base, you can support around 7-8 gateways non-stop production if I remember correctly. If you build stuff non stop from those, you will overwhelm him in the midgame because he gimped his economy severely at the start.
You have no clue what he's doing because you have no scouting probes or zealots or corsair. It's very important that you, say, keep one zlot in front of his natural and one in front of his third ramp so that you can know when he moves out, and keep a probe moving around his potential new expansions so you can keep track of his bases. Corsair you can use to keep an eye on his tech. @10.15, you sent some corsairs towards his main but ran them back, you should have gone into his main to see exactly what tech he had, instead of running back.
@11, the attack on his third was not good because your templar were so far behind. If you had waited and placed a few storms on his units you would have rolled his third. You have no third of your own so it was a good idea to attack at that time, but the lack of high templar hurt you a lot.
Versus this many sunken colony, reaver/goon/HT is not a bad idea at all. You made zealots for a really long time, without goons, which I'm inclined to say is not the greatest of compositions at that stage of the game. However, his lurker timing was really late so it worked out ok.
At around 16 minutes you dillydallied with your army and achieved nothing. You were getting very close to maxing out, so you should have either secured another base or attacked his natural. I think you would have rolled his natural or even his third had you attacked either of them. Reavers would have been very useful at this point, too.
I have no time to keep watching, hope I helped a little.
|
|
|
On July 30 2014 04:33 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 01:32 Ty2 wrote:
How do you beat mass Valkyrie and mass Siege Tank. This Terran guy just did it to me and I let all of my clumped Queens to Brood his tanks die in less than 2 seconds to the Valkyries. Excuse me while I weep Zerg tears. WHO DID THAT TO YOU? There is some guy who always does that shit but I can't remember his name.
You're probably thinking of "Peeano." In fact I know you are because I'm a telepath.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
