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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On September 09 2013 14:46 Jemah wrote:
When a protoss does a 1 gate FE, should I take my third hatch in base or is it okay to take a third. Should I delay the third to make lings to defend or should I just make a sunken and make my third at the normal time. Also, should I get an earlier gas?
There isn't really a standard 1 gate FE build, unless you just mean FFE, which happens to also have 1 gate.
Generally 1 gate tech/expo builds arn't particularly threatening, you shouldn't have to make many lings to defend. You could just keep a ling outside his nat, and then pump lings when he moves out (he will have only a small attack off 1 gate).
You can go either with or without a sunken, and you should take your third only slightly slower(just to be safe cos you can afford to, you can get away with normal third timing too).
Basically one gate openings in PvZ slightly slow down the zerg (unless they really commit to a big 1 base attack, then more than slightly), but in general give the zerg more options. You can do normal timings like vs fe, slightly slowed with a few more lings. You can go mass lings to deny their nat for ages (taking nat without canons is a bitch), and stuff like 3 hat hydra becomes a strong defensive opening that is economically viable for the long game, as opposed to against FE.
Depending on when you expect him to attack, since he could be either massing a small attack off 1 gate, or just building enough to take his nat. You would have to respond differently. There really isn't a standard template to work from, since people rarely do anything other than FFE PvZ on modern maps.
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actually 1 gate fe was fairly common a long time ago. was also used occasionally to throw opponents off with an early zealot attack and very fast tech. you have to respond with 3 hatch hydra unless you want to do an all in zergling push, because corsairs come out very early and your spire is just gonna be way too late. although, now that i think about it its not really a 1 gate FAST expansion, so maybe hes talking about something different.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On September 09 2013 21:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
actually 1 gate fe was fairly common a long time ago. was also used occasionally to throw opponents off with an early zealot attack and very fast tech. you have to respond with 3 hatch hydra unless you want to do an all in zergling push, because corsairs come out very early and your spire is just gonna be way too late. although, now that i think about it its not really a 1 gate FAST expansion, so maybe hes talking about something different.
The problem is 1 gate tech doesn't get an expo for ages, which is the build your talking about, since it's the only one with a sair fast enough to force 3 hatch hydra. It used to generally take an expo routinely on sair/dt, definitely wouldn't qualify as any kind of FE build.
There was a reason why it was a long time ago, because back then maps didn't suit FE, it's no coincidence that PvZ was also the MU with the lowest win rate at the time, just one more piece of guesswork protoss had to deal with in the MU. People still do it now as a switch up, but there is no standard way to execute it, since it is by design something non-standard to throw the zerg off their game. There is also a reason why it's not standard now, it's not a particularly good, safe, or stable opening. Even now, some of the Sospa protoss still do it, Jangbi has been doing it in most of his PvZs and has been punished in pretty much every PvZ early game that he has opened this way because of it.
Basically there is no standard way to do a 1 gate FE, because there isn't a safe consistent way to take your nat early without canons. So it's really hard to give advice on how to play against it, because '1 gate FE' would be a variation of a very fluid opening that could be doing any number of things.
The only exception I can think of is on maps with a safe backyard expo, eg God's Garden/Outsider which genuinely had a standard '1 gate FE' build, but you can respond to those exactly as you would a standard FE, since the backyard expo means a safe third for Zerg.
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If I was doing a 1 Gate opening as Protoss I would just play like anytime vs yellow
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Where can I play BW? is it still possible to play throught b.net or where else can I play? thank you.
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Russian Federation481 Posts
Probably best place to play BW for you is www.iccup.com. I think most nonkoreans play there now.
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Does op teamliquid still exist on iccup, or where do tlers hang now
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On September 09 2013 17:52 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 14:46 Jemah wrote:
When a protoss does a 1 gate FE, should I take my third hatch in base or is it okay to take a third. Should I delay the third to make lings to defend or should I just make a sunken and make my third at the normal time. Also, should I get an earlier gas? There isn't really a standard 1 gate FE build, unless you just mean FFE, which happens to also have 1 gate.
Isn't there a greedy build that goes something like gate -> forge -> nexus (same sim-city as a ffe but rearranging the order of the buildings). I haven't seen it all that much and it is probably is risky versus early pool builds. But I have had problems adapting to it with a standard macro zerg build because of how fast it can get a small zealot push to your base.
I have tried making more lings, or adding 1 sunken at both naturals (before adding the 4th and 5th hatcheries) when I see it.
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the greedy variation is nexus->gate->forge. this only works when zerg goes 12 hatch on big maps though. and its not a gateway opening
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On September 11 2013 21:04 PiPoGevy wrote:
Does op teamliquid still exist on iccup, or where do tlers hang now
It still exists but it's not that active and the tl bot seems to alternate between op teamliquid:xxx with different numbers for some reason so some people go to those channels.
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How do you stop your mech army from getting broodlinged in TvZ? Besides not letting them get qyns.
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why emp rather than irradiate? queens are expensive.
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On September 13 2013 01:34 kerpal wrote:
why emp rather than irradiate? queens are expensive.
Because even when irradiated they will still have time to broodling things, you can hit multiple queens with one EMP and instantly stop them from doing it to you. Hopefully you can kill them will gols afterwards.
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Or have a shitton of gols and turrets so that queens die with only a couple broodlings (it's really hard running through a a minefield, swarming, and a moving alone without having to shoot a dozen broodlings)
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
You could always just split the map Flash style and spam turrets everywhere, then hope that your opponent loses all his resources trying to break your line
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On September 13 2013 03:43 amazingxkcd wrote:
You could always just split the map Flash style and spam turrets everywhere, then hope that your opponent loses all his resources trying to break your line
And just try and slowpush, cycling out vults for new mines?
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On September 09 2013 17:52 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 14:46 Jemah wrote:
When a protoss does a 1 gate FE, should I take my third hatch in base or is it okay to take a third. Should I delay the third to make lings to defend or should I just make a sunken and make my third at the normal time. Also, should I get an earlier gas? There isn't really a standard 1 gate FE build, unless you just mean FFE, which happens to also have 1 gate. Generally 1 gate tech/expo builds arn't particularly threatening, you shouldn't have to make many lings to defend. You could just keep a ling outside his nat, and then pump lings when he moves out (he will have only a small attack off 1 gate). You can go either with or without a sunken, and you should take your third only slightly slower(just to be safe cos you can afford to, you can get away with normal third timing too). Basically one gate openings in PvZ slightly slow down the zerg (unless they really commit to a big 1 base attack, then more than slightly), but in general give the zerg more options. You can do normal timings like vs fe, slightly slowed with a few more lings. You can go mass lings to deny their nat for ages (taking nat without canons is a bitch), and stuff like 3 hat hydra becomes a strong defensive opening that is economically viable for the long game, as opposed to against FE. Depending on when you expect him to attack, since he could be either massing a small attack off 1 gate, or just building enough to take his nat. You would have to respond differently. There really isn't a standard template to work from, since people rarely do anything other than FFE PvZ on modern maps.
No for instance on FS on top and bottom you can build a pylon, and a gate on 11 make 2 zealots and depending on what your opponent does you can either build the forge after your first zealot and expand, expand after your 2nd zealot and then forge, or put on slight aggression.
I've seen a couple of Tento replays and he does this basically every game on FS if he is top or bottom (other positions aren't as safe because you can't make a 1 gap wall), I've also seen Draw do this a couple of times in his games and Shuttle also did it seldom in his replay pack.
It's basically an FFE expect that you get the gateway before the forge.
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On September 12 2013 09:35 sheaRZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 17:52 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On September 09 2013 14:46 Jemah wrote:
When a protoss does a 1 gate FE, should I take my third hatch in base or is it okay to take a third. Should I delay the third to make lings to defend or should I just make a sunken and make my third at the normal time. Also, should I get an earlier gas? There isn't really a standard 1 gate FE build, unless you just mean FFE, which happens to also have 1 gate. Isn't there a greedy build that goes something like gate -> forge -> nexus (same sim-city as a ffe but rearranging the order of the buildings). I haven't seen it all that much and it is probably is risky versus early pool builds. But I have had problems adapting to it with a standard macro zerg build because of how fast it can get a small zealot push to your base. I have tried making more lings, or adding 1 sunken at both naturals (before adding the 4th and 5th hatcheries) when I see it.
Actually on certain maps with really tight simcities you should only be dying to a 5 pool because you should be able to get the cannon up before he destroys your gateway.
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Is it just me or did the brood war general forum disappear?
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EPT
