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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:20 traceurling wrote: Is it just me or did the brood war general forum disappear? Nope, it's gone for me too  Curious, it's working normally on my PC but it's just missing from the forum list on my phone, here's the link if you need it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=6 | ||
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traceurling
United States1240 Posts
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
...click on BW if it is grey, to activate it and remove it from filter :/ i was not logged in, no saved cookies at all....but somehow BW was filtered. :/ | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On September 16 2013 23:13 greenelve wrote: I had the same problem... and found a simple, but weird solution: left side to the search bar, there are symbols: SC2 - BW - Dota2 - Other ...click on BW if it is grey, to activate it and remove it from filter :/ i was not logged in, no saved cookies at all....but somehow BW was filtered. :/ It seems to be working normally again now. | ||
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oDieN[Siege]
United States2905 Posts
On September 11 2013 21:04 PiPoGevy wrote: Does op teamliquid still exist on iccup, or where do tlers hang now I feel most people from TL.net hang out in Ladder 2x2 more than the actual "op teamliquid/:###". | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
On September 13 2013 14:41 thezanursic wrote: No for instance on FS on top and bottom you can build a pylon, and a gate on 11 make 2 zealots and depending on what your opponent does you can either build the forge after your first zealot and expand, expand after your 2nd zealot and then forge, or put on slight aggression. I've seen a couple of Tento replays and he does this basically every game on FS if he is top or bottom (other positions aren't as safe because you can't make a 1 gap wall), I've also seen Draw do this a couple of times in his games and Shuttle also did it seldom in his replay pack. It's basically an FFE expect that you get the gateway before the forge. Is there any good response to this as zerg? I lost 3 consecutive games to this build on FS (once even opening 9pool speed). It seems that I have to build so many lings early for defense that im far behind by the time protoss decides to push. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On September 18 2013 17:46 sheaRZerg wrote: Is there any good response to this as zerg? I lost 3 consecutive games to this build on FS (once even opening 9pool speed). It seems that I have to build so many lings early for defense that im far behind by the time protoss decides to push. when i go 12 hatch vs this build i normaly make like 4/6 lings seeing the first zeal and can always add like 4 more later on when he moves out. if he doesn't do that and just simply masses that you can go up to 6 lings and make a sunken and hold it off | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
On September 18 2013 20:04 sabas123 wrote: when i go 12 hatch vs this build i normaly make like 4/6 lings seeing the first zeal and can always add like 4 more later on when he moves out. if he doesn't do that and just simply masses that you can go up to 6 lings and make a sunken and hold it off I probably just overbuilt lings in a panic. He harassed with 1 lot and 1 probe before my first lings were out (after a 12 hatch), which could have been held with 6 lings. What really messed me up was the next push with 3 lots before I normally would have added >6 lings. | ||
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Deleted User 268575
146 Posts
I found the best way to deal with this was an overpool opening and just making a few lings to defend. It's also viable to do 12 hatch and not take too much damage. Just drone drill until initial 6 lings are out to defend. Over many games, I've just realized that good control is all you need in order to save drones and not overmake zerglings so that you can still have an economy while teching up. With your initial 6 to 8 lings, try to surround and kill each zealot as they come. Playing too passively can let the zealot count get too high and as zealot numbers increase, so do their cost efficiency against small numbers of lings. They can also attack different locations at once which is a pain to deal with when you are trying to set up 3 bases. If the toss has good control and keeps zealots alive or kills off your lings, just replace and add on lings as much as is needed but try not to overmake them. Keep an overlord over his gate to see if he keeps producing and also to see if he builds cannons to lighten the aggression and focus more on defense. It's important to make sure that the zealot never makes it to behind your mineral line or inbetween them. Preemptively position your lings to surround any zealots before they get there. If they do get behind, or in a tight spot, just try to get the most area as possible, even if only 1-2 zerglings can attack at a time and just micro each damaged zergling behind to be as cost efficient as possible. Target the probe first if the toss chooses to attack with both zealot/probe and or if the zealot makes it to a tight spot and the probe is vulnerable. Use your drones with your zerglings, do the mineral trick to drone drill and pull back any damaged drone. Make sure to not overmake lings, 6-8 lings with drone help and control can fend off 1-2 zealots at a time. This is if dealing with aggressive tosses who stream zealots one by one. As for the 1 gate FE but being passive with the zealots, I have no experience against that but I think it should be easier to fend off as you can just position a few lings outside his base and if he does come out, force a runby if your speed is finished or just make a sunken, or a few more lings and defend with lings/drones. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States611 Posts
Why did I lose this game? | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
most importantly work on keeping your money down that 2.5k minerals and 500 gas you have when you push out could have been 5 tanks and 20 vults, which would've made a pretty big difference keep your scouting up too, you have no idea what he's doing for most of the game. if you got dt'd you would've just lost immediately, or he could double expo and you'd be in a huge hole | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
scanning a lot also helps. always expand towards the enemy so that if your unsure when to push, you can always slow push. its my own noob opinio tho | ||
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Phyanketto
United States611 Posts
On September 20 2013 13:56 Dead9 wrote: try following a build order. it's fine to start with 2fact but it's an aggressive opening; expoing behind a 2fact without pressuring your opponent puts you pretty far behind most importantly work on keeping your money down that 2.5k minerals and 500 gas you have when you push out could have been 5 tanks and 20 vults, which would've made a pretty big difference keep your scouting up too, you have no idea what he's doing for most of the game. if you got dt'd you would've just lost immediately, or he could double expo and you'd be in a huge hole Sage advice, but my question is more along the timing of when to pressure with a 2 fact. Going back and looking at this, I realized I fucked up in a big way: I was just trying to emulate something I saw Hiya do, but he was on FS. I think that easy to take third makes all the difference. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
with most 2fact openings you push out as soon as mines are finished researching | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
There were some other mistakes I noticed you should probably fix to not lose the game in the first 3 min. Your sim city was not zealot tight, you would have been at a big disadvantage if he rallied zealots to your base. Barracks right of the CC and depot right of the barracks is zealot tight. You should also not block your consat with a building that you are not planning to move. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States611 Posts
On September 20 2013 18:34 Cryoc wrote: I think Hiya usually does the Joyo 2 Fact version with 11 Rax and 12 Gas at the beginning. You can look the build up on Liquipedia. Usually you move out with 3 tanks plus marines and rally vultures to the Protoss while speed and mines are researching. Siege mode is usually upgraded last. Because you already built your first factory late with 150 gas and your second even later, you did not really have a timing. There were some other mistakes I noticed you should probably fix to not lose the game in the first 3 min. Your sim city was not zealot tight, you would have been at a big disadvantage if he rallied zealots to your base. Barracks right of the CC and depot right of the barracks is zealot tight. You should also not block your consat with a building that you are not planning to move. When you say my simcity wasn't zealot tight... You mean my wall (nonexistent) or that my depot was on the wrong side of the barracks? I used to do variations of the gosu depot against P, and I still do against T and Z, but I noticed people didn't do it against P, so I stopped and tried to do the depot-rax thing. As for the comsat... Random error. Never happens. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
On September 20 2013 22:44 Phyanketto wrote: When you say my simcity wasn't zealot tight... You mean my wall (nonexistent) or that my depot was on the wrong side of the barracks? I used to do variations of the gosu depot against P, and I still do against T and Z, but I noticed people didn't do it against P, so I stopped and tried to do the depot-rax thing. As for the comsat... Random error. Never happens. Yes, your depot was on the wrong side. Take a look here. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States611 Posts
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1361 Posts
On September 20 2013 13:06 Phyanketto wrote: So, as a terran, one of the most important things for me is pushing out to either hit a timing where protoss doesn't have a lot, or simply to push out enough to take a third. When exactly do I do that? I push out when I feel like I have enough, but I always get crushed. Is it that I'm going with the wrong unit composition? Not enough stuff? Are my timings too late? Why did I lose this game? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f7pgVy9uvg It's going to be really hard to give you specific advice, because in the vod you opened 2 fact expo, which is an objectively terrible build in this day and age. The slowest you should be expoing in a standard TvP are with siege expand or FD. Any slower than that and unless your going for an all in build, you've already missed all the timings and are at an unassailable build order driven economic disadvantage. 2 Facts builds are not timing attacks you respond to any sort of scouting with, they are basically preplanned all ins in the current metagame, and have been for a long time. 2 fact into defensive expo, or 1 fact port, or 2 fact port or really any build where you get more than 1 rax and 1 factory and some depots before expo are all essentially all-in builds in this day and age, you either do crippling damage to your opponent or you've already lost the game. We would be able to give more meaningful advice if you took your nat faster, there is a 2 fact timing attack (usually off 1 rax expo opening) that is sometimes used to punish an incredibly greedy toss taking a third off virtually no units. But if you open 2 fact off 1 base, just go and try kill them, there is no real subtlety and timing to it, it's such an outdated opening that if the game isn't effectively over in 5 minutes, then you've already lost. | ||
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