On March 18 2013 11:28 Golgotha wrote: Then how come I was killing mines with my lings quickly enough that they did not explode? What was going on? And if I lingerie drag mines into tanks... Do I use all 12 lings or just 6? What is an optimal number to ling drag sweep mines? I found that doing it with just one ling can be ineffective. Ty
Cuz cracklings OP...I guess they just killed the mines before they exploded...experiment...too many, and you lose too many lings for not enough mines, but too few and the lings die before the mines get dragged...pay attention next time and see what number works best for you...not sure if anyone knows an approximate number...
it helps a lot if you have +2 melee and adrenal, but even then it just depends how lucky you are with your amove. you can do the same thing with hydras but if the mines are too thick your hydras are all gonna die. if you're just trying to clear mines just amove handfuls of zerglings at them until they all explode or die
don't attack into lines of tanks with mines in front of them unless you can get a decent flank with hydraling (hopefully with swarm). it also helps to drop things (ultras) on the tanks. or just clear them with mutas or guardians
you should be moving all your lings onto the tanks, or as many as you can anyway. it's not really worth it without swarm though, the zerglings just die before they reach the tanks
also an easy way to set up a decent flank is to move all your units perpendicular to the tanks then amove them all
Just watched this zvp and I don't know how the zerg won. I feel like toss gave up too early. Danpil just had one less base than zerg. Can someone explain to me what things trutouch did correctly to defend his bases and win? Also what the toss did wrong. Analysis and critique of the game with your guy's insight would be much appreciated. Was this a bo loss, unit comp loss, or army fight loss?
I'm noob but from what I can tell it was because the protoss only had one mining base left, and knew that vs the amount of mining bases trutacz had left he wouldn't be able to hold onto the base that just had its nexus sniped.
On March 18 2013 15:13 Birdie wrote: I'm noob but from what I can tell it was because the protoss only had one mining base left, and knew that vs the amount of mining bases trutacz had left he wouldn't be able to hold onto the base that just had its nexus sniped.
i see, so that is why he left when he did. but I still don't get how Z held off a four base P with very little damage to any of his bases. A four base P is literally my nightmare but trutouch made it seem so easy to hold off. Was trutacz's defense just too perfect for P or did P not have the right units and decision making? Thanks!
@dead9
i love that picture, thanks for that tip! I never tried that!
On March 18 2013 15:13 Birdie wrote: I'm noob but from what I can tell it was because the protoss only had one mining base left, and knew that vs the amount of mining bases trutacz had left he wouldn't be able to hold onto the base that just had its nexus sniped.
i see, so that is why he left when he did. but I still don't get how Z held off a four base P with very little damage to any of his bases. A four base P is literally my nightmare but trutouch made it seem so easy to hold off. Was trutacz's defense just too perfect for P or did P not have the right units and decision making? Thanks!
@dead9
i love that picture, thanks for that tip! I never tried that!
If the Protoss had killed the third, then he would still be in the game I think. If I were to guess I'd say the Protoss didn't damage trutacz's economy enough when he harassed, and didn't make/lost too many units, enabling trutacz to kill that nexus. So it was sort of a slippery slope but the losing of the nexus was the definite "I've lost" point.
How do I muta micro in ZvT? So far I've been moving shot in where I'm flying past a building, right click in front of it, right click on it, then right clock in front of it...against marines I've been P-moving, somewhat like vulture micro... Also, how do I make sure my macro doesn't slip while microing?
move towards your target, then hit hold or aclick on a target, then move away stop microing for a second and hit 4sd5sd6sd, it helps if you hotkey hydras and the hydra den as well. alternately you can macro while you micro but thats really hard
On March 19 2013 01:06 traceurling wrote: How do I muta micro in ZvT? So far I've been moving shot in where I'm flying past a building, right click in front of it, right click on it, then right clock in front of it...against marines I've been P-moving, somewhat like vulture micro... Also, how do I make sure my macro doesn't slip while microing?
To "stack" the mutalisks, group them with a stationary or slow-moving unit. Usually, you can group your mutalisks with a single overlord. The trick uses the AI of the mutalisks to stack on each other. If the overlord is too close to the mutalisks, they will not be able to stack.
To prevent the mutalisks from splitting up, it is best to rapid-fire click in a circle around the mutalisks. The stack will break up if you stop clicking or click the ground near the mutalisks directly behind whichever direction they are facing. When attacking a target, always fly the mutalisks towards the target in a straight line before attacking the target.
You will use three basic controls for attacking:
- click attack - Hold position - Patrol
To attack a single target, steer the mutalisks towards the target, then click on the target. As soon as the mutalisk stack launches a volley of glaive wurms, turn them away from the target immediately. A group of 11 mutalisks will kill a missile turret in 3 shots (or 2 shots if you wait for it to burn down, or have +1 air weapons) and 7 mutalisks will kill an SCV in a single shot. Using the click-attack is useful for killing turrets, SCVs, and medics, tanks, and any specific target that you want to snipe.
Hold position is used for attacking groups of marines. The unit AI, when told to hold position, will fire randomly at any target in range. This means each mutalisk will fire at a different target, which will cause a spray shot to hit several targets at once. This is particularly useful against small groups of marines. I don't recommend using this type of attack against SCVs or turrets.
Patrol micro is not useful in ZvT. This type of attack is used almost exclusively for ZvZ.
What to look for:
Keep in mind the areas that you can retreat to when attacking. Fighting out in the open with just mutalisks will almost certainly get them killed. If there are areas out of the reach of the terran forces, such as the edge of a base, and especially a cliffside, use those areas to pull your mutalisks out of danger.
Whenever you see marines that are vulnerable, or stray medics, kill them! Generally, when the marines are running in a line towards you, you can use the hold position micro to shoot at them. You don't want to engage anymore than 10 marines at once, so if you can lure small groups of marines away from the main group for short periods of time, this will open up opportunities to kill marines. Another potentially good place to engage marines can be when you have your mutalisks flying over high ground, and a line of marines is running up a ramp. Because they go up the ramp one by one, and may not have vision of the top of the ramp, it can pay huge dividends to engage here.
Your priorities change depending on how you want to play the rest of your match. If you want to reduce the number of marines so you can bust into your opponent's natural, then you want to focus on killing marines. However, generally, for a more conservative strategy it's best to kill SCVs. The SCVs will be guarded by turrets and marines, so you will need to knock down some turrets so that you can attack the SCV line. Don't get too over-eager, though, because if you lose all of the mutalisks, you will be in serious trouble. The mere presence of mutalisks threatening the terran player can potentially give you map control (a point in a game where an opponent cannot leave his base) and this will allow for you to expand.
Many Terran builds are designed specifically to deal with mutalisks. The idea is for the terran to be aggressive so that he can threaten your base, forcing you to pull the mutalisks back to defend. This takes the pressure off the terran's base by not letting you get map control. Don't freak out and try to kill the terran force with pure mutalisks in the open; build a bunch of speedlings (at least 12) to buffer fire for your mutalisks. Then, when you're ready, send the lings and mutalisks together and attack the marine group. If there are firebats in the group, tell the mutalisks to target it/them so all your zerglings will not simply disintegrate.
Goliaths are sometimes used by terran players against zerg. The most goliaths you can realistically take on with 11 mutalisks is around 6. The numbers can vary, depending on your positioning and upgrades, but if you want to use mutalisks against goliaths, you will need to produce a lot of mutalisks, and won't be able to stack them once you have 30 or so. Don't worry about this, though. Goliaths technically do less DPS to mutalisks than groups of marines, so you won't need to use hit-and-run tactics against goliaths.
Thanks nina! That was way more in depth than I expected...I really did not know that P-move was mostly for ZvZ only...lots of useful information there hope my ZvT improves a lot now...how do I hold position micro? Won't pressing H cause my mutas to deccelerate?
On March 19 2013 11:40 traceurling wrote: Thanks nina! That was way more in depth than I expected...I really did not know that P-move was mostly for ZvZ only...lots of useful information there hope my ZvT improves a lot now...how do I hold position micro? Won't pressing H cause my mutas to deccelerate?
It causes them to stop, so you have to get used to the timing (particularly in latency) so that you can get them to move again back immediately. (Usually it'd be back, so you run towards marines/turrets/whatever, press H, wait like a tenth of a second then rightclick back).
On March 19 2013 11:40 traceurling wrote: Thanks nina! That was way more in depth than I expected...I really did not know that P-move was mostly for ZvZ only...lots of useful information there hope my ZvT improves a lot now...how do I hold position micro? Won't pressing H cause my mutas to deccelerate?
Patrol is really useful in zvp ie when chasing zealots or sairs with muta/scourge.
On March 19 2013 11:40 traceurling wrote: Won't pressing H cause my mutas to deccelerate?
Yes.
Imagine you have one mutalisk and there is one building. If you select the mutalisk and then right-click on the building, the mutalisk will fly close enough to shoot at the building, stop, and start shooting at it. When you do mutalisk micro, though, you pull the mutalisk away right after it launches it's shot instead of letting it stop and sit there in mid-air, shooting at it's target.
The same basic idea applies to hold-position micro, except that instead of letting your unit stop to attack automatically, you do it manually. The reason for this is the effect that you get from giving the 'hold position' command, which is that if you have a stack of mutalisks, they will all attack units that are in their range randomly, causing them to spray fire at multiple enemies.
To make the hold position micro happen, you need a bit of practice to get a sense of the range you'll need. You click your ball of mutalisks towards your intended target area, and once you get in range where your mutalisks can attack, you hit "h" (causing the mutalisks to stop and attack), launch the volley, and then click your units away. Using this technique, you can efficiently kill a lot of weak units very quickly.
How does a zerg win when they are on two bases against two base terran and they are unable to take a third? I was watching this happen in the SSL where Beast had his third denied constantly by Sexy.
On March 20 2013 01:17 BisuDagger wrote: How does a zerg win when they are on two bases against two base terran and they are unable to take a third? I was watching this happen in the SSL where Beast had his third denied constantly by Sexy.
If a Zerg player tries to execute a strategy that relies on them getting a third base, then if that base is untakeable, then they will be in a pickle. If Sexy was constantly denying a third base from Beast, then he was obviously playing the match correctly as a Terran player. The only option for the Zerg would be to play very well with defilers, and then get to a position where they can double-expand (you need 4 gas for ultralisks). Obviously, this would be very difficult for any player, because it's tough to win when you're extremely behind.
On March 20 2013 10:22 Golgotha wrote: When doing overpool when do I lay down my 2nd and 3rd hatch? What supply is optimal? This is a no speed and only 6 lings overpool. Thanks!
I usually send my first drone after the spawning pool to go scout, and send the second one to my natural and use it to build the hatch. So that's at 11, and my 3rd is at 16. Possible it isn't optimum though.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6PzGe8L.png)
