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! [Q] PvZ Bigballs? - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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pooper-scooper
Profile Joined May 2003
United States3108 Posts
October 21 2004 08:29 GMT
#21
god damn, big balls is a dedicated and generous poster. His strategy generosity reminds me of Tsunami (if you take offense big-balls let me know). Thanks for the time and effort none the less BB
Good...Bad... Im the guy with the gun
Ceril
Profile Joined April 2003
Sweden1343 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 08:56:11
October 21 2004 08:55 GMT
#22
...Always take note if ovies got speed or not, and never let your plateu(? on LT) sides be unscouted for long, its gay, well not exactly gay more like freaking awfull, to lose because of slow ovie drops.
Just because you can now store where everyone was and is, what they like, what they fear who they talk to and who they love. It does not mean we should so spy upon our fellow man in a dystopia far worse then 1984
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
October 21 2004 09:09 GMT
#23
lol

tsu was a good kid. i was in 1st with him back in the day. he used to give me nightmares about speed lings, probably contributed to how conservative i play sometimes.

but yeah, i dont care if people know my strats, they still arent going to win
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 10:27:00
October 21 2004 10:26 GMT
#24
Just a thanks to BigBalls. Great contribution again. I can learn a lot about this matchup so I found it personally useful.
We are vigilant.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 11:02:14
October 21 2004 11:00 GMT
#25
I really disagree with going corsair first in any situation, unless you're doing 5 pylon. Sure it's a scout, but you shouldn't need this scout, it's not worth the lack of damage it tends to do (unless they completely blow at control).

Also, I thought a tip to make sure you're constantly upgrading is to place your forge somewhere near your gateways. Everytime you go to macro, you see your forge and it should continually remind you to upgrade. This helps prevent those loooong upgrade gaps when your mind is all over the place.

I also noticed bigballs was teaching you guys to do sair expo. ugh.

I agreed with the robo after 2 gates, many like to get it after four but that usually means youre at the mercy of the zerg if he has any sort of drop (speed or otherwise).

The reason I HATE sair/temp/cannon/expo is that it is so slow at recovering, and then you have to deal with some big lurker/scourge contain while youre getting continually lurker ridged. It's stupid. Choose a more offensive build and learn to control the pace of the game, force the zerg to contemplate whether hes in trouble, not for you to contemplate whether or not you're strong enough. If you're trying to break out and they have more than 8~ lurkers containing you, you've waited too long. Use your storm just to snipe at lurkers and keep trying to sneak probes out, in case you do fail to break a contain. I'd say not to storm your observers but even I still can't figure out why they are so attracted to it

I agreed with the expoing RIGHT after breaking out, you need this moment to set cannons up before his army pushes you back in your base.

DT, island, arbiter, -> big thumbs up.
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
October 21 2004 11:03 GMT
#26
On October 21 2004 18:09 BigBalls wrote:
lol

tsu was a good kid. i was in 1st with him back in the day. he used to give me nightmares about speed lings, probably contributed to how conservative i play sometimes.

but yeah, i dont care if people know my strats, they still arent going to win

your 9/11 and 1 gate forge blow, give those away
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
hhkx
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada757 Posts
October 21 2004 11:06 GMT
#27
i am a z player,u can go for 1 gateway, then decide to go for high tech or not
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
October 21 2004 11:07 GMT
#28
going sair has advantages and disadvantages

on LT:

advantages:
1 - gets solid scout, you know exactly how much defense you need, where, and when
2 - you dont need a fast shuttle for your ledge, you can power harder after your expo to catch up unit wise with standard builds

disadvantages:
1- behind early unit wise, which is quite big


I think it could be worth the gamble. There are scenarios where it is horrible, but I think its a good option.
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
October 21 2004 11:19 GMT
#29
If you like gambles, then its your style. But in the games where it is strong, it doesn't win you the game, whereas it can most easily make you lose the game in many different ways, something not my style
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
ahk-gosu
Profile Joined July 2004
Korea (South)2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 11:34:05
October 21 2004 11:32 GMT
#30
when he is going triple hatch
get sairs...

force him to pay for his mistake of trying to get drone ling so early.
make him waste minerals on spores then you can covert your army to ground troops.
sairs are not an impossible or useless strategy that you people seem to make it look. it can really work out. and sairs > mutas so i dont know what some of you are talking about. sair reaver can really dominate zerg if you use d web correctly.
Micro.Macro.Scouting.Harassment.
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 11:39:34
October 21 2004 11:39 GMT
#31
both 2 and 3 hatch muta will catch your 1 stargate sair with its pants down

sair reaver is strong, but its also really shitty early as well as probably being the hardest to control strat in the game
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
iD.Surv
Profile Joined April 2004
Belgium827 Posts
October 21 2004 12:13 GMT
#32
situations were sair is decent imo:

1.you fake a rush he falls for it (2 gate or 1 gate doesnt matter) with making sunks and lings (more than he would normally do)
you already prevented him from powering drones so the sair is going to hurt his economy a little bit more + scout and you can do your little combo with dt/sair yay expand

2.when ur rushing 2 gate and it if felt great. You felt that he was damaged and you put him behind and you really wanna know his strat and pressure him little more while your exping. Strafe executes this strat smoothly <3
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 12:19:46
October 21 2004 12:19 GMT
#33
a zerg who gets faked out from a fake rush? what are you talking about? any good zerg would not make those sunkens unless you actually HAD something worth making sunkens over, and that would mean you spent just as much as him getting those zealots (assuming you mean zealots). the sair won't end up doing anything, besides making you behind for a worthless little scout able to dibble itself around the map

post-rushing 2 gate then sair isn't too bad but then you have to be sure to pressure directly following the sair, your unit count should be a little above theirs because of them making a spore or two
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 21 2004 12:51 GMT
#34
i agree with bigball's way of opening except there is a problem
if you are 12 or 3 you cannot scout across map first, you HAVE to scout the near position first, which means if they aren't their you can't know if they are across or not, and need to go 2gate, which won't be as effective(imo) if it turns out they are across the map.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 21 2004 12:52 GMT
#35
imo you don't want to do anything that is 'decent'

the only situation i think sair rush is GOOD is when you have no info about whether or not they are going lair and you can get the sair VERY fast.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
October 21 2004 12:55 GMT
#36
also bigballs i don't understand the point of 9/11 gate
9/10 gate costs you almost no difference economically with a HUGE advantage in rushing power/ability to stop 9pool

10/12 gate you will have 3 zealots in nearly the same amount of time as 10/11 with a way better economy(just 1st zeal will be alot later)
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
October 21 2004 12:55 GMT
#37
If you are 12, you can scout cross map cause your probe will see the overlord moving towards you, and in that case i would 9/10 gate immediately, cause he can make a pool before ovie in that situation.

if you are 3, you might have to 2 gate all the time though. good point
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
October 21 2004 12:57 GMT
#38
yeah, i meant 9/10, like i said, its been a while since ive actually 2 gated, or even played a pvz for that matter. forgot everything.
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
October 21 2004 13:02 GMT
#39
agreed with everything travis said
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
maleorderbride
Profile Joined November 2002
United States2916 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-10-21 13:34:13
October 21 2004 13:33 GMT
#40
I dont know why anyone bothers to talk to Rugbug about sairs anymore. As far back as I can remember in this forum he has bitched about how much they suck. I disagree, Bigballs disagrees, Travis disagrees.

TRavis and Balls had some great comments regarding sairs in one of the past threads. I suggest people use the search function for them.

As far as sair expo beign too slow to break contain , and you get cliffed. Cliffing is really not that big of a problem. 2 cannons, maybe 3. 1 temp, possibly 2. Whats the problem? The sair even offers sight so you dont need obs as early. If you have problems breaking out of a contain its because of YOUR macro or micro. I admit that it is somehwat difficult to be macroing, while probing at the contain. Just keep the storm + 1 goon shooting to kill each lurk. Keep your obs safe and you should be fine. Get a shuttle if you arent going to lose it to scourge and harass during all this or try to expo to island.

Vs Mutt with sairs. If you dont have a sair until his lair is DONE, then you haev problems about figuring out when to go sair. Its really not an issue If you see them before lair is done or when its just starting. Just get an archon and 2 cannons and hold pos the sair over ur nexus. Incredibly easy. Your not "screwed" or whatever rugbug said.

PS
breaking a contain isnt about one big attack. Its about non-stop killing of units with storm as soon as they put it up.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
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