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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
On December 07 2009 03:07 IntoTheWow wrote: No with T you need to baby sit your army a lot. An army of 12 tanks and 24 vults unsieged and unmined will die easily to a protoss army of equal force. agreed. u can even be ahead in supply and still lose in that case. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On December 07 2009 03:49 SkytoM wrote: but after 10min into the game, you would have far too much probes, don't i? i agree that at some point late game you should stop making workers, but i doubt any D protoss ever loses because they made too many. over-producing probes is a "good" problem at these low ranks. once you start losing games because of it you're already C-. | ||
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
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0neheart
United States92 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
edit: also nice thread title change hot_bid lol | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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nextstep
Canada705 Posts
On December 07 2009 05:36 0neheart wrote: even if it's not supposed to be a problem at d level, when do you stop building probes? just because you got to c- doesn't mean you magically suddenly know when to stop building probes.. yes, is there a magic number of probes per mineral patch or line? i'm sure at some point, probe production isn't necessary. i usually make only ~15-17 per line (10-12 on smaller lines), and they already run around, like move around the patch, go behind it, etc. edit: i want to ask this question for all races too. i'm sure it's not the same, at least for me. i seem to make ~same number of SCVs as probes, but with zerg, i make much less, until later on the game. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On December 06 2009 16:13 Hot_Bid wrote: Here is how to macro with Protoss past D+ level: For 4-5 games, try to focus on only building probes and not getting stuck at supply for a game or two. That means neglect micro and other stuff and just make sure that your two or three nexus lights never stop blinking. If you lose, you lose. Watch the replays and select each nexus, did it ever stop blinking? If so, keep practicing building probes and pylons. Once your nexus' lights never go off for two bases, then work on gateways the same way. It becomes much harder to not get stuck at supply while doing this, but try. Do this for as many games as necessary to keep the nexus lights on AND keep your gates going. You will feel like you are spending all your attention and APM just building probes, units, and buildings. This is fine. Keep doing it, over and over and over and over and over. If you find that you can't do this against an opponent because you just lose, do it against the computer. As many games as it takes to make 0p9p second nature and whatever gateway macro method you use completely instinctual. Once your nexus light never stops and your gates hum smoothly, you can stop playing the computer and start learning how to control your army between macro sweeps. You don't even need to be good at micro. Once you learn to macro, you likely can automatically get to C- just by macroing and then a-moving. Sometimes, you'll have 2k/1k and still have a ton of more stuff than your opponent. This is called "outmacroing someone" and is really enjoyable and rewarding. Enjoy your C rank. Absolute truth, at D/D+ rank just macro and 1a2a3a as toss, as long as you dont get pylon blocked and expo appropriately, you'll win everything | ||
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stoned_rabbit
United States324 Posts
On December 07 2009 06:26 nextstep wrote: yes, is there a magic number of probes per mineral patch or line? i'm sure at some point, probe production isn't necessary. i usually make only ~15-17 per line (10-12 on smaller lines), and they already run around, like move around the patch, go behind it, etc. edit: i want to ask this question for all races too. i'm sure it's not the same, at least for me. i seem to make ~same number of SCVs as probes, but with zerg, i make much less, until later on the game. i believe 25 workers per min line is the cutoff point where extreme diminishing returns kicks in. Assuming 3 bases fully saturated this comes out to 75 probes total, which is pretty much perfect. Assuming constant probe production you normally hit this around 10 minutes. Go to single player, turn on operation cwal, make 25 probes and look at it. Memorize what it looks like and then whenever you see that at a base in game, stop making probes there or send some elsewhere. Or if you're really lazy, stop making probes when you're taking your 4th base (make more to compensate for harass). | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On December 07 2009 06:26 nextstep wrote: yes, is there a magic number of probes per mineral patch or line? i'm sure at some point, probe production isn't necessary. i usually make only ~15-17 per line (10-12 on smaller lines), and they already run around, like move around the patch, go behind it, etc. edit: i want to ask this question for all races too. i'm sure it's not the same, at least for me. i seem to make ~same number of SCVs as probes, but with zerg, i make much less, until later on the game. I don't play Protoss so I don't know exactly what is the optimal probe/scv count for Protoss/Terran but I know for sure that 15 probes is definitely not enough to fully saturate a typical 9patch min line for Protoss. I'm think it's something close to around 22-23 or so. And with Zerg it should be the opposite... you make as much drones as you can early, then later make very little to no drones and pump combat units. | ||
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
On December 06 2009 21:30 3clipse wrote: Oh god, this is what gets me when I play zerg. I'm not used to having to choose between workers and combat units and my proportions/timings of production of each are probably way off, killing my macro. This is why I think zerg was harder to play in 2003 when most zerg games opened against a 2 gate or a 2 rax. Nowadays vs the FE openings you can pretty much drone constantly with a few specific exceptions that aren't that hard to figure out. | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On December 07 2009 03:07 IntoTheWow wrote: No with T you need to baby sit your army a lot. An army of 12 tanks and 24 vults unsieged and unmined will die easily to a protoss army of equal force. it works for D- terran  secret with terran is practicing having a lot of apm | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On December 07 2009 06:16 Muirhead wrote: Usually in PvT you stop building probes out of your first two bases when you get your third, though you can still get some more at your 3rd depending on what's going on. Then you resume probes when your 4th nexus is building until it is finished. However, it's important to replace probes you lose to harass etc. and all of this is assuming perfect probe production. when the crap do you take your third? 150 supply? that makes no sense. iccup rank please? | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On December 07 2009 09:16 foppa wrote: when the crap do you take your third? 150 supply? that makes no sense. iccup rank please? it makes sense. at mid level you will need to cut probes when your 3rd goes up to get more gates up to prepare for a timing push (assuming a double expand before zealot speed). you can resume probes either after you are comfortable blocking a timing push or have already killed it or you know he is taking a 3rd or just not pushing you. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
On December 07 2009 03:07 IntoTheWow wrote: No with T you need to baby sit your army a lot. An army of 12 tanks and 24 vults unsieged and unmined will die easily to a protoss army of equal force. I've often gone trough D/D+ tosses with an a-move mid-game attack, it can be done (perfect macro), but depends on your build and early game damage you or your opponent have taken. But it is a bit harder with terran than with toss, yes. | ||
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XxxKennyxxX
United States18 Posts
1. the moment my zealots or whatever comes out I attack? 2. never stop probe production. 3. don't get supply blocked | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On December 07 2009 13:37 XxxKennyxxX wrote: so your saying I should practice like this: 1. never stop probe production. 2. don't get supply blocked 3. have a lot of stuff, attack | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
On December 07 2009 05:36 0neheart wrote: even if it's not supposed to be a problem at d level, when do you stop building probes? just because you got to c- doesn't mean you magically suddenly know when to stop building probes.. The problem isn't knowing when to stop building probes, it's getting the D mechanics up to the point where he can manage his army, macro out of gates, not miss pylons, and still saturate his probe line, most useful one out of those is the last two. Knowing doesn't work if you don't have the mechanics to start the probe production/not lose. | ||
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XxxKennyxxX
United States18 Posts
so have around 1-3 groups and do a 1a2a3a and with constant prduction. hope I don't get owned | ||
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