EPT[G] PvZ FE -> Speedlots - Page 5
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KwarK
United States44238 Posts
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SoL[9]
Portugal1370 Posts
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TT1
Canada10052 Posts
On December 04 2009 06:38 Knickknack wrote: Well, I have things written for pvz, but 1)they are simple BOs or 2) they are not done, and 3) they are more detailed and meant for a guide. It would not really mesh into what you have here or liquidpedia as you can see bellow. Still, I don't really mind if you add stuff like detailed opening information to help people: + Show Spoiler + Opening: Preliminary question: How do I learn the correct building placement for FE? + Show Spoiler + 1. Read the wall-in thread for building placement rules, and for pictures: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62652 2. Check TLPD for pvz games on the maps you want to play: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/ 3. You can play in single player. Using cheats you can make buildings quickly and mind control zerglings to figure out which building placements are best. Preliminary question: Why scout on 8pylon when going FE? + Show Spoiler + You can scout after making forge or even later. This gives you more minerals which helps vs 9pool, overpool, and 12pool. But, this can cause problems especially on 4player maps if you scout opponent last. Late scout can also cause problems vs 5pool and other early pools. It also means you won't get to go nexus first vs 12 hatch builds. So scouting is always a bit of a gamble, but that is why you should scout on 8 pylon unless you are quite sure they will 9pool/overpool/12pool. Preliminary question: How many cannons do I need? + Show Spoiler + You will know how many cannons you need by scouting the zerg's build and how many lings pop out of their larvae. If they make no lings you don't even need 1cannon, but you don't know if what is hatching in their first 3larve is 6drones or 6lings, and on many maps (destination for instance) ling travel time is slightly shorter than cannon build time. That is why you typically want to build at least 1 cannon. If they build more than 6lings you most likely want 2canons. 2 cannons is the standard safe bet, and then build more if you see them making lots of lings. Now, there are builds zergs do where they get 12+lings with speed to try and run past your cannons into your main. In this case you will see them collecting gas for speed, and in this case you will sometimes want to build your 3rd cannon before making a gateway. Use your best judgment, and play safe if you are not sure. Also, at times you may want to pull probes from main/nat to either block lings and/or help attack vs lings. How many cannons you build can also depend on map layout and how good your simcity is. For the bellow builds I assume 2cannons as a typical reaction to the standard 8 ling opening. Build (A) vs 9pool, overpool, 12pool: 8pylon-scout, 11forge, 14cc (2cannons), 16nexus, 16gateway, 16p (in main), 17assim, then zealot or core *vs 12pool, depending on travel distance you can get away with 8p-scout then nexus/forge before cannons. While that has a faster nexus, it also tends to have less consistent probe production. So, the eco difference is not too great, and 12pool is not done often, so knowing this variation is hardly a necessity. Build (B) vs 12 hatch 11pool 8pylon-scout, 13nexus-gather min at nat and take back, 15Gate, 15forge, 17p (in main), 17assim, 17cc, then zealot or core (C) How to react vs 5pool. If you opened 10forge you may be able to get away with cannons at natural. Most likely you went 11forge however, so when you see early pool build a pylon next to your nexus asap ~12psi. Then 1-2cannons asap. Then you can either go 2gateway or gateway-gas. Vs later pools, such as 7pool you may be able to get away with cannons at nat if you went 11forge asap. Use your best judgment, and play safe if you are not sure. (D) How to react when you have not scouted them early. Sometimes on 3-4player maps you may not scout your opponent fast enough to decide between forge or nexus first. In these cases you typically want to play safe and go forge first. And then if you see that they went 12hatch you can make nexus before cannons. (E) Vs the rare 3hatch 0pool, go nexus first, and then add two gateways at nat. Constant zealot pressure while teching. These are optimized BOs vs the certain ling timings that zerg builds have. Travel distance can influence these timings, but these timings are good for most normal maps (destination, heartbreak, etc). Often at low level play, your opponent will not be doing an optimized build and then you can get away with a better build than you really should be able to do. For example, in his replay pack of iccup games [pan]kabal (b+/a- p player) often did 8p, 11forge-scout, 14forge/nexus, and got away with it vs overpools. But one time an opponent recognized this and 5pooled him next game and quickly won. When Kabal played a couple of games vs Mondragon, one game he lost quickly and another he had to deal with lings in his base. The point is I don't suggest learning bad habits vs weaker players. this is true, i used to 12 forge then send my probe to scout until z users figured out my scouting habits and they all started to 9drone/no gas vs me my b.o was strong vs over 9 and 9pool speed because it would give me a small eco advantage, vs 9pool speed i would have to bring a few probes out to stop the rush but it was worth it in the long run because ecowise the rush would effect the z user more than it did me.. but once they started 9pool/early exping it would set me behind | ||
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Kouda
United States2205 Posts
![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/26931.jpg) KwarK, I was trying the 4 Gate 2 Archon build, I'd like any thing you can say to help me refine it. I feel this build works really well. Other than Me not really reacting to the Muta attack near the end that supply blocked me, I felt the push works so well. The Archons null the Mutas, and The +1 Speedlots just rape Hydra/Lings. | ||
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