EPT[G] PvZ FE -> Speedlots - Page 3
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
Yea I've seen that page, its fairly longwinded though since it copies the bos from your original thread. Also not sure about its title "early timing windows vs zerg". Its just a build like any other, that has certain timings, and zerg can be prepared for it with certain timings. Agreed that it is good to have something compiled that explains and shows variations, but that is cumbersome work. I modify my statement that the +1 build is harder hitting than this one. After I played this build out with similar probe cuts I got 10speedzealot done just after 6:50. Now, there is no +1 coming soon, but the speed and zealots are slightly faster due to later +1/2nd gas, and 3more zealots are coming for attack soon. So around equal attacking power early on I would say. | ||
KwarK
United States43351 Posts
On December 02 2009 09:38 foppa wrote: when do you cut probes? I try not to but when I forget a pylon and want to free up psi or accidentally spend money I didn't have and want to keep my stargate active I do it. But it's not really a probe cutting build, probe production should ideally be constant. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On December 02 2009 09:54 KwarK wrote: I try not to but when I forget a pylon and want to free up psi or accidentally spend money I didn't have and want to keep my stargate active I do it. But it's not really a probe cutting build, probe production should ideally be constant. I didn't mean cut probes to get your stargate or citadel or your 3 gates up faster. i mean when do you stop making them all together? | ||
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KwarK
United States43351 Posts
On December 02 2009 09:59 foppa wrote: I didn't mean cut probes to get your stargate or citadel or your 3 gates up faster. i mean when do you stop making them all together? It depends on map and game flow. If you're both taking exps at will on a big map then 70 is a decent balance between income and maxed army size. If you're continually clashing 150 supply armies into each other then supply is less of a commodity and if you have undersaturated bases then by all means make more. If it's a small map so at your peak you will be mining at most 3 bases then feel free to cut them earlier. If he's harassing them keep pumping them, if you get a decent number quickly you can stop. | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
but then again if you're playing vs the 5 hatch hydras this could be soo deadly | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 02 2009 09:51 Knickknack wrote: Watch the rep that crashes in multi people. Yea I've seen that page, its fairly longwinded though since it copies the bos from your original thread. Also not sure about its title "early timing windows vs zerg". Its just a build like any other, that has certain timings, and zerg can be prepared for it with certain timings. Agreed that it is good to have something compiled that explains and shows variations, but that is cumbersome work. Yeah. I wasn't really happy with it. It wound up being way longer than I intended it to be. I wanted to split it into 3 pages, but wasn't familiar enough with liquipedia's interface to do it effectively. The early timing windows only really make sense in relation to the other protoss timing windows in the matchup, specifically the 4 gate 2 archon build that was so dominant for so long. If the builds had a proper collective name, I think it would make the discussion considerably easier. edit: Edited for terrible grammar. Currently trying to write a 10 page research paper that's due tomorrow... procrastination is such a terrible thing. | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:15 DreaM)XeRO wrote: just about to say a good simcity with 3~ sunks and lurkers will kill this sooo easy but then again if you're playing vs the 5 hatch hydras this could be soo deadly you cant get lurkers fast enough to deal with this unless you skip your spire. and than how do you plan do deal with corsair play? | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On December 02 2009 07:32 KwarK wrote: Draco's attack was several minutes later. He went 2nd gas, dragoons, 5 gateways and all sorts of fancy jazz. Looks similar but attacks way after the timing window when hatcheries kick in. Yeah I know the timing of it was difference, but Jaedongs defense of it can still be done similar against this 3gate zeal rush. It just shows how you can effectively shut down zeal aggression with just a good sim city and some drone micro in addition to some lings. If you wanna see how good a sim city can be, go watch Zero vs Pure @ fighting spirit, in that game Zero makes a sim city where he can move his larvas using the move trick and block his natural totally from zealots from running in. | ||
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kfour
United States106 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On December 02 2009 22:20 JieXian wrote: May i know what is the second gas timing like for 5 hatch hydra compared to mutas? Are you asking about the Zergs timing for second gas? (because you take your second gas at the same time regardless what you follow up your 5hatch with) Or are you asking about if you add your second gas at different times as protoss if the Zerg does muta or hydra? | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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KwarK
United States43351 Posts
On December 02 2009 22:33 Oystein wrote: Are you asking about the Zergs timing for second gas? (because you take your second gas at the same time regardless what you follow up your 5hatch with) Or are you asking about if you add your second gas at different times as protoss if the Zerg does muta or hydra? Isn't it faster for 3 hat muta? I thought so but obviously I just try and read the signs, a P/Z player like you knows this inside out. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On December 02 2009 22:41 KwarK wrote: Isn't it faster for 3 hat muta? I thought so but obviously I just try and read the signs, a P/Z player like you knows this inside out. Yeah if its 3hatch muta, I just assumed he meant 5hatch with late mutas since he did not specify it as 3hatch muta. For 3hatch muta it comes early yeah and you skip getting those extra hatcheries early. edit : kinda why I specified its the same timing regardless what you follow up your 5HATCH with  | ||
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KwarK
United States43351 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On December 02 2009 22:48 Oystein wrote: Yeah if its 3hatch muta, I just assumed he meant 5hatch with late mutas since he did not specify it as 3hatch muta. For 3hatch muta it comes early yeah and you skip getting those extra hatcheries early. edit : kinda why I specified its the same timing regardless what you follow up your 5HATCH with Sorry i never thought in so much detail.. I meant how does gas timing for 3 hatch muta and 5 hatch hydra or muta differ? How early is the early gas and how late is the late gas? And what are the signs of quick lurkers? Sorry for the noob question that's quite unrelated. But I've always been in the dark about this. | ||
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PangO
Chile1870 Posts
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KwarK
United States43351 Posts
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