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Why no nukes? - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Cu(oCo)
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Italy358 Posts
November 26 2009 11:32 GMT
#41
On November 26 2009 20:30 29 fps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2009 18:55 Cu(oCo) wrote:
nuke only if your opponent is red .cit


doesnt matter if they ctrl-tab to change their color to teal

is shift + tab.
Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
November 26 2009 11:40 GMT
#42
On November 26 2009 20:32 Cu(oCo) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2009 20:30 29 fps wrote:
On November 26 2009 18:55 Cu(oCo) wrote:
nuke only if your opponent is red .cit


doesnt matter if they ctrl-tab to change their color to teal

is shift + tab.


damn. still got it wrong. i wrote alt-tab first, then changed it. i need to play more
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
November 26 2009 12:14 GMT
#43
I think they could be viable late game when there are a lot of bases to check and there's the "big ball of units" vs "big ball of units" and no one wants to move out of position.

and like above mentioned it can be a very good distraction and mind games weapon but still, very very situation and map specific.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 12:30:46
November 26 2009 12:27 GMT
#44
200/200 isn't really a huge investment...
even with a ghost, cloak, and nuclear silo
425/475?
throw in an emp, kill some probes (either at the nexus or transferring with your vults)
they can be hugely cost effective.
i don't see why people hate on them..
they're also the most fun/cool looking thing to do ass terran besides possibly erasering 20+ drones
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
November 26 2009 12:34 GMT
#45
I thought boxer using it as an anti-swarm was very clever. Defensive swarms = zerg turtle, nukes force them out of position. I think the cost is very overrated (cheaper than losing a dropship with 2 tanks), it's the inability to replace them effectively that is the problem. Toss often lose like a thousand minerals charging zealots into mine fields, so position can often be worth much more than a few hundred minerals.
If toss had nukes, I guarantee they would use them and terrans would complain about nukes being imbalanced. It's not too useful given terran's strength in vulture harass and setting up a huge, immobile ball.
Cu(oCo)
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Italy358 Posts
November 26 2009 12:41 GMT
#46
cant remember how much psi it costs
6-8?
Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴
axel
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
France385 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 12:51:38
November 26 2009 12:50 GMT
#47
I remember Boxer doing fast cc ( before rax) on longinus ,into 1 fact then fast nuke. That was quite good strategy because he could destroy totally 2 nexus thanks to some places behind expands that made impossible for any protoss units to shoot down the gost. During the time protoss was busy to not be nuked he was building lots of factories and of course upgrading fastly due to lab investissement. Then turtling to b3/b4 , b4 with 2 gas on longinus. He won quite easily :3-3 ups , vessels..This is viable on maps where u can wall your main with your nat, best exemple is longinus. I could not find the vod but i think it was vs some class b player in proleague.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
November 26 2009 18:44 GMT
#48
Nukes are too gas intensive in any match up to properly use. They're good for the surprise factor, but once the other guy knows you have them, good luck using one...

I can't think of anything else to say right now
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
November 26 2009 19:01 GMT
#49
On November 26 2009 21:34 igotmyown wrote:
I thought boxer using it as an anti-swarm was very clever. Defensive swarms = zerg turtle, nukes force them out of position. I think the cost is very overrated (cheaper than losing a dropship with 2 tanks), it's the inability to replace them effectively that is the problem. Toss often lose like a thousand minerals charging zealots into mine fields, so position can often be worth much more than a few hundred minerals.
If toss had nukes, I guarantee they would use them and terrans would complain about nukes being imbalanced. It's not too useful given terran's strength in vulture harass and setting up a huge, immobile ball.


Truth be told, if you could time it so that you attack his nat right when he gets swarm, he might think he's safe since he has swarm, but then you nuke the shit out of his army in his nat?
r1fl3m4n
Profile Joined March 2009
United States28 Posts
November 26 2009 20:56 GMT
#50
How about Ghost + Defense Matrix? I think that will help more nukes land
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
November 26 2009 21:00 GMT
#51
ghosts have some use against arbiters TvP. If you get 3 gas you can run ghosts in your army and use lockdown as defense. Apart from TvT thats the only cost effective use I can come up with.

I've tried it out and obviously it lets you bash your way through newbies fairly easily, and the ghosts are pretty good for stopping recall later, but thats about it really.

I do think it's possibly cost effective to use them to defend recall.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
n3m0
Profile Joined January 2007
Portugal247 Posts
November 26 2009 21:24 GMT
#52
Takes a huge amount of psy, 8 (i think), it's easy to spot and kill ghost + easy to save probes if he's not killed it takes 2 nukes to kill a protoss building except for pylon (i suppose) unless you use emp.

It's rly a waste...

Unusable in TvZ O_oa
Former WGT Clan League Admin - Former Portugal A team manager - Former member of MgZ) / iG. / LRM) - Starcraft Broodwar
old times sake
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
165 Posts
November 27 2009 00:49 GMT
#53
I didn't think of a nuke bluff, however I feel like that would ultimately prove effective only because it's a surprise. If it became used more, it would become pretty useless. And it still requires you to have a silo, a ghost, a nuke, and their prereqs--still quite too expensive don't you think?
Lol it's so funny watching the level of posting deteriorate so rapidly when supporters of this decision are confronted with such nefarious things as REASONS. --fanatacist
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
November 27 2009 02:10 GMT
#54
On November 27 2009 06:00 Piy wrote:
ghosts have some use against arbiters TvP. If you get 3 gas you can run ghosts in your army and use lockdown as defense. Apart from TvT thats the only cost effective use I can come up with.

I've tried it out and obviously it lets you bash your way through newbies fairly easily, and the ghosts are pretty good for stopping recall later, but thats about it really.

I do think it's possibly cost effective to use them to defend recall.


Stationed ghosts at key recall locations instead of vessels at the same location?

You can use one ghost for each vessel, and you wouldnt need to place mines, since you could lockdown over turrets, the only weakness being a weakness to hallucination.
UntitledQ
Profile Joined August 2009
Germany99 Posts
November 27 2009 03:35 GMT
#55
Someone asked for maps favouring nuke usage. Of course there already are quite some with terrain asking for it (most recently Match Point with its nukable gas expansion next to the main), but as for hiding the red dot maps can contribute significantly as well: the ashworld tileset provides some tiles with glowing red lava in which a red dot is impossible to be seen (well, maybe after 5 seconds of staring).

Including nukes in timing builds is completely impossible since it's at the very end of the terran tech tree, but the jump to nukes isn't all that big late-game. A nuke attempt by itself is obviously usually futile, but I believe having a hotkeyd ghost in position at an enemy expansion and a nuke ready can turn the tide of a battle.
As it was already mentioned launching the nuke is no more than two or three actions, but searching for the red dot is easily thousands. Using a nuke at the right time in a decisive battle forces your enemy to either stop microing his units / retreat (which likely will cost him a lot of units or even the battle) or lose an expansion worth of workers (or even the whole expansion if you have a science vessel nearby to sneak in an EMP right before impact).
stoned_rabbit
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States324 Posts
November 27 2009 03:40 GMT
#56
Nukes are hilarious. I would love to see someone get their bc/carrier army locked down and nuked. Hell, boxer could do it way back in the day (pimpest plays?). I'd love to see some s-class progamer do it to some 1800 elo scrub on tv lmao.
Nogardeci89
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States113 Posts
November 27 2009 05:29 GMT
#57
I think its worth mentioning that nukes in TvZ can kill all the larve at one expansion which could be anywhere from 3-9 larvae. Doesn't sound like much but if you factor it in to damage to hatch, lost mining time it may be worth it.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
November 27 2009 06:43 GMT
#58
On November 26 2009 07:07 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On November 26 2009 06:05 never_Nal wrote:
The other way I see nukes being used is like a pretty gay Protoss style, basically when P's get Arbs and just recall your expos to fuck up your macro, while they take more expansions, but it would be LATE game, and not Mid.


I know exactly what you mean! + Show Spoiler +
Ok, I haven't got the slightest clue.



Yeah i'm with you, I hate when people just keep typing without any punctuation. Hard to understand, and after re-reading what he said I still dont get it lol.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
November 27 2009 06:46 GMT
#59
On November 27 2009 05:56 r1fl3m4n wrote:
How about Ghost + Defense Matrix? I think that will help more nukes land



Wouldn't that just make the ghost visible? So instead of being not seen its gonna stick out and he wont even need to find the red dot, will just kill the ghost without searching since he will see it.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Deviation
Profile Joined November 2009
United States134 Posts
November 28 2009 04:44 GMT
#60
Like you've all said Nukes are really only going to hit buildings, they take so long and units move. That said, they don't do enough damage to kill buildings. For example, if you want to take out a Nexus/hatch/cc you need 2 nukes or a follow up attack. If you want to destroy a couple gateways you need 2 nukes. That's a big investment and a big risk, and the payoff just isn't worth that risk.
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