EPTWhy no nukes? - Page 2
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
| ||
|
ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
| ||
|
Wonders
Australia753 Posts
Another possible use is on outsider where it's not uncommon to see 10 or more sunkens close together. They're just to stall the terran push until guardians come out. A nuke will kill them all much faster than tanks. The timing of it might be off though. | ||
|
ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
On November 26 2009 14:49 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: It's funny to see a topic that starts with "[Thought]" and find none inside. I actually believe this topic does have some valid opinions on why it does not work, since it was brought up in a blog a little while ago. QFT | ||
|
Gnarly
United States151 Posts
| ||
|
Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
It's easily arguable why nukes are not useful as a single attack... but why not as a combo? Nukes are great distractions. Sure they cost 250/250 + minus one scanner, and 225/275 per shot, but in endgame stalemate that can come and go in a wasted attack or micro mistake, why not. Simply put, against an opponent who you know is not one to mess around, hearing that Nuclear Launch Detected will give you a heart attack. You'll spend a couple seconds checking all your bases for that red dot. It will throw you off your game. Especially when you CAN'T find that red dot, you really shit your pants. ... then you realize it was just a diversion and there's an imminent terran push, or a drop, or the last expo gets taken, or you forget about your recall and your arbiters get shot down, forget to swarm and your defilers get irradiated, etc. Mid-game example: In the Flash vs Savior showmatch game, you can see Savior's expression as he frantically looks for the red dot... he moves his contain away from Flash's main just in case... then realizes it was on an unused expansion, relaxes, and lets it blow. While Savior was retreating his army, Flash moved out and retook his expo. Although he was still far too behind in economy and unit count (and nuked his own attacking army), it was still a nice try and could have brought him back into the game if Savior made a mistake as well. edit: Plus, EMP nukes are pimp. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 26 2009 15:55 Not_Computer wrote: Simply put, against an opponent who you know is not one to mess around, hearing that Nuclear Launch Detected will give you a heart attack. You'll spend a couple seconds checking all your bases for that red dot. It will throw you off your game. Especially when you CAN'T find that red dot, you really shit your pants. This only really works BECAUSE nukes are unexpected. Learning to respond calmly and effectively to a nuke isn't something that normally works its way into someone's skill set. If it ever became remotely standard, people would simply practice it. It's like getting 5-pooled. D- players freak out and fuck up their game, but by C levels, people can respond to it calmly because they've seen it 5000 times. The weaknesses of nukes are too apparent for someone who's practiced against it consistently to lose any ground to it. | ||
|
Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
On November 26 2009 16:13 TheYango wrote: This only really works BECAUSE nukes are unexpected. Learning to respond calmly and effectively to a nuke isn't something that normally works its way into someone's skill set. If it ever became remotely standard, people would simply practice it. It's like getting 5-pooled. D- players freak out and fuck up their game, but by C levels, people can respond to it calmly because they've seen it 5000 times. The weaknesses of nukes are too apparent for someone who's practiced against it consistently to lose any ground to it. And then use them until people learn to respond to them. It's the same way how cheese work. People know how to respond but they can still freak out. I've doubt C levels have seen 5000 nukes in their ranked ladder games. It's like getting 5-pooled, even pros use it because pros freak out and fuck up their games. The whole thing is that nukes will never become standard and that is an undeniable fact. But despite that, why not? Just a couple months ago valkyries were not remotely standard either. Sorry, overused analogy (hello mind control thread  ) | ||
|
old times sake
165 Posts
That being said, a nuke is useful when you can kill a lot of stuff with it. Basically you either need to hit stationary targets (in the strange parallel universe where nuking was done, players would learn to move their valuables away from any possible places the nuke would be--hiding the red dot only is useful now because players are completely unfamiliar with anti-nuke tactics because it utterly doesn't matter). Therefore, the nuke only kills buildings, or things you've locked down. But it's unlikely to succeed and it's a one shot. You're better off to have units while you are killing stationary things. In the event that you can keep your opponent from detecting and killing in a certain area you could be using wraiths or tank pushing instead. I think getting a nuke off takes more concentration than several good drop harass attacks. Now, nuke can be useful when the player can't go anywhere--island maps, or situations where you have them pinned. But really you need to lay multiple nukes AND be able to get them all off, which might be useful sometimes but it's too expensive to really do unless you pretty much could've won already by other methods. But I'd love to see a pro gamer prove me wrong--try to make a map that favors nuking. | ||
|
HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
 BoxeR. | ||
|
niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
I mean, it's a very powerful distraction tool. You don't even have to nuke your opponent, just launch the nuke in an empty space and continue your high rhythm game. My thoughts are that even Bisu will miss a macro cyclus when he hears 'nuclear launch detected'. | ||
|
29 fps
United States5724 Posts
| ||
|
AttackZerg
United States7465 Posts
| ||
|
Cu(oCo)
Italy358 Posts
| ||
|
ultramagnetics
Poland215 Posts
50/50 gas for add on to science facility. 150/150 for cloak (or 100/100?) 25/75 for ghost 50/50 for nuclear facility 200/200 for nuke.. that's like 500 min/500 gas... just make sure to factor in that this could be like 5 tanks for gas heavy terran... | ||
|
nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
| ||
|
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
| ||
|
Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
On November 26 2009 19:45 deconduo wrote: This might sound like a stupid question, but would nuking a recall into your base be any good? When the toss recalls, their army is stuck clumped together for a few seconds, maybe enough time for the nuke to hit the entire thing (10-12 dragoons say). If your army was away, this would make it worthwhile. The downside to this is losing your own buildings, but they would probably die from the recall anyway. lol, or in that case nuke your stasis-ed units. then when your units unfreeze, there's nothing to finish them off and they can keep going along on their business. | ||
|
Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 26 2009 19:45 deconduo wrote: This might sound like a stupid question, but would nuking a recall into your base be any good? When the toss recalls, their army is stuck clumped together for a few seconds, maybe enough time for the nuke to hit the entire thing (10-12 dragoons say). If your army was away, this would make it worthwhile. The downside to this is losing your own buildings, but they would probably die from the recall anyway. Ya, trying that would be very stupid indeed.  | ||
|
29 fps
United States5724 Posts
On November 26 2009 18:55 Cu(oCo) wrote: nuke only if your opponent is red .cit doesnt matter if they ctrl-tab to change their color to teal | ||
| ||
