There was a game in the first season of GOM on colloseum where a toss beats a terran with scouts. The toss goes for a really fast arbiter but the terran does an aggressive push. Due to a lack of gates the toss is forced to build scouts. The scouts win the game. I think it was in ro64.

RisingTide

Australia769 Posts

June 04 2009 05:35 GMT

#43

On June 04 2009 14:26 Mastermind wrote:
There was a game in the first season of GOM on colloseum where a toss beats a terran with scouts. The toss goes for a really fast arbiter but the terran does an aggressive push. Due to a lack of gates the toss is forced to build scouts. The scouts win the game. I think it was in ro64.

It was Kal vs. fOrGG on Colosseum in the Arena MSL quarters.

xhuwin

United States476 Posts

June 04 2009 05:37 GMT

#44

On June 04 2009 12:20 Ozarugold wrote:
Personally, the only thing I never liked about Scouts were their names. Seriously, Scouts? They don't even scout...

Yeah I always thought that corsair and scout should have their names switched >.> Corsair sounds so badass

PobTheCad

Australia893 Posts

June 04 2009 06:15 GMT

#45

what would be the point?
you are buffing toss air without buffing zerg air? zerg is already weaker in the air

Last Romantic

United States20661 Posts

June 04 2009 07:30 GMT

#46

Nal_rA scout rushed against JulyZerg on Raid Assault 2 :3

benjammin

United States2728 Posts

June 04 2009 07:40 GMT

#47

i've got nothing to add here other than that kal vs forgg game with scouts is absolutely one of the best games i have ever seen

blabber

United States4448 Posts

June 04 2009 07:46 GMT

#48

I think

Stork opened with a scout instead of a corsair on Neo Reqiuem in GOM Season 2 and owned. (P)

Young did the same thing later in proleague but got owned

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

June 04 2009 11:17 GMT

#49

I think you'd have to be very careful not to make them too good. Speed by default maybe and that's it, prehaps build time down. I don't think the stats for it should be adjusted.

Zalfor

United States1035 Posts

June 04 2009 12:03 GMT

#50

scouts are a very fine line between very bad and overpowered.

if you make scouts pre speed upgraded, they become corsairs that can attack ground and own overlords faster with more hp.

that would be disaster.

prOxi.Beater

Denmark626 Posts

June 04 2009 12:09 GMT

#51

In order for scouts to be worth it I think they first and foremost needs to be produced faster. As it is it almost takes as long to mass up a suprise fleet of scouts as it does to make a decent carrier army. This is just wrong. Also, you sometimes see protosses make an early scout instead of a corsair, but apart from being a lot more expensive it also means that their air unit will come out a LOT slower. Reducing the build time significantly, making it slightly longer than a corsair's, would solve many of its shortcomings and make it a lot more viable.

Also the cost of getting the speed upgrade is rediculous. I think the only way to solve this issue is by moving the upgrade to another building, like the cycore or even the stargate. 200/200 is a fair price imo, since it makes scouts so much better in so many ways.

Scouts themselves are also very expensive, but I think it's ok actually, since they really do kick ass against every air unit, apart from mutas and BCs.

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

June 04 2009 12:13 GMT

#52

On June 04 2009 16:40 benjammin wrote:
i've got nothing to add here other than that kal vs forgg game with scouts is absolutely one of the best games i have ever seen

that entire series was incredible, seemed to be the catalyst that drove forgg to become a superaggressive unorthodox terran monster that he was during his msl run

its a real shame he has reverted back to his old self because he played some beautiful starcraft back then

rytas

Sweden116 Posts

June 04 2009 12:26 GMT

#53

On June 04 2009 16:40 benjammin wrote:
i've got nothing to add here other than that kal vs forgg game with scouts is absolutely one of the best games i have ever seen

Is there a youtube link of that or something perhaps?

KwarK

United States43350 Posts

June 04 2009 12:47 GMT

#54

On June 04 2009 21:26 rytas wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is there a youtube link of that or something perhaps?

Or maybe some sort of tee-ell-pee-dee.

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

June 04 2009 13:23 GMT

#55

Yeah thats a good point about the location of the speed upgrade too. Instead of making it pre-researched putting in the cycore would be a much better idea, which is where you'd expect it in the first place anyway.

KnightOfNi

United States1508 Posts

June 04 2009 14:37 GMT

#56

On June 04 2009 14:35 RisingTide wrote:

Show nested quote +

It was Kal vs. fOrGG on Colosseum in the Arena MSL quarters.

The game actually happened twice, when forgg did the exact same strategy both in game 1 and game 5 (both on colosseum), and kal did the exact same opening (fast arbiter). Kal build a scout in both games, and won with it in game 1 (but lost in game 5).

I'm really liking the idea of moving the upgrade into the cybernetics core. I never thought about doing something like that, and I do agree that stacked scouts are imba (but expensive as fuck lol).

LastWish

2015 Posts

June 04 2009 15:20 GMT

#57

The main drawback is that Scouts are only useful in PvZ or in a rare one base island PvP vs carriers.
As for other races, terran has so many good counters and even if you damage him early your eco will suffer too much if you play mass scouts.
In PvP, you just build a bunch of sairs and it's all over.

For this reasons I think boosting scout armor would be for the best.
Lowering the speed cost wouldn't be bad eigher.

yrag89

Malaysia315 Posts

June 04 2009 15:27 GMT

#58

In the Kal vs Forgg game, I notice how it took years for a scout to kill a tank. Even if it's 2+ scouts. For the price that much, I don't think it's cost effective.

garmule2

United States376 Posts

June 04 2009 15:42 GMT

#59

Scouts are just weak, expensive, and ineffective... and honestly it has more to do with the way scouts move and attack than anything else. They're painfully slow. Whenever I'm using Scouts, I feel like I'm flying around a fragile observer with a gun. They seem to have so much HP, but in reality their short range, slow attack speed, and loooooong acceleration time make them into walking targets. I try to fight with them and find myself WTFing when 1 or 2 of my scouts die seemingly spontaneously, because the time for them to slow down, shoot the ground, then speed up and leave again is like 6 seconds, whereas for mutas it's under 1. I'd rather have 12 mutas than 12 scouts any day. :/

0xDEADBEEF

Germany1235 Posts

June 04 2009 15:56 GMT

#60

Devourers and valkyries suck too (just a little less, so they actually get used in strange builds, but rarely of course), for many of the same reasons:
- too expensive
- too fragile (even though they have a lot of HP, they die so fast to storm or irradiate coupled with standard unit fire it's not even funny)
- too slow (without upgrade which makes them even more costly)
- too high-level unit, i.e. comes late
- specialized for 1 role (anti air) but when they come into play there's lots of better anti air available already (including standard unit fire and abilities like storm or plague), and this better anti air will also kill this expensive air-to-air unit easily

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