EPTFlash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL - Page 8
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RowdierBob
Australia13536 Posts
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines686 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1328 Posts
On July 15 2025 21:33 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: From 21 may to 15 july dont gonna lie to you those numbers seem so low. I swear to god i do 55 in 3 days (when i was active) LOL. Everyone took holydays on june or wut ? I dont know the reason for FlaSh not playing the last ASL. Did he post anything ? Could be that the surgery he had before didnt do anything and he decided to take this new surgery ? No gonna lie 55 games in 1 month is the range of games im expecting from someone like Rain. That numbers of games sound reasonable for Rain playing in ASL and doing well. But someone like Effort/Last/Rush/Light/Hero is pretty low. Rain clusters all his activity around the ASL season. Last season he played 50-60 money games per month(money being involved is a criteria for eloboard), and 150+- ladder games per month. He played more ladder than most pros because he prefers laddering for some reason. Also that is excluding offline matches they do for practice. talked with some pros and some of them would take the two days before their match to grind out 24-32 games a day with practice partners in offline. and this is not just playing but also discussing ideas and brainstorming. also just because people seem to ignore this Most top pros play in the chinese/starcast sponsored best of sets. these are more than half the time not recorded on eloboard. Flash hardly ever played in these. soulkey, snow, light, best, hero, mini, royal, rush, jaedong, queen, stork, play in these A LOT. there are over 200 matches that have gone unrecorded. It is currently very difficult to a get a good grasp on activity because of it. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7218 Posts
On July 16 2025 20:09 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Rain clusters all his activity around the ASL season. Last season he played 50-60 money games per month(money being involved is a criteria for eloboard), and 150+- ladder games per month. He played more ladder than most pros because he prefers laddering for some reason. Also that is excluding offline matches they do for practice. talked with some pros and some of them would take the two days before their match to grind out 24-32 games a day with practice partners in offline. and this is not just playing but also discussing ideas and brainstorming. also just because people seem to ignore this Most top pros play in the chinese/starcast sponsored best of sets. these are more than half the time not recorded on eloboard. Flash hardly ever played in these. soulkey, snow, light, best, hero, mini, royal, rush, jaedong, queen, stork, play in these A LOT. there are over 200 matches that have gone unrecorded. It is currently very difficult to a get a good grasp on activity because of it. Oh yeah for sure. I actually know this cuz i have replays of SK vs FlaSh training for the KSL semifinal of SK vs Last and they will stop midgame playing to debate early game situations. Super interesting stuff tbh. They will train till the build order hit the goal and avoid lategame situations that are pretty standard. Our Stats friend TMNT However think progamers prepare for ASL just streaming in a weekly basis playing 2-3 games of proleague and thats how he messures progamer activity. Then he randomly picks FlaSh playing a TvT group in a round 16 vs Light Barracks Mong in 2020 cuz ofc flash need 2 weeks of harcore grinding to play that group cuz you know those guys were the most insane tvt players at the time. But what flash did instead was playing league of legends whole week in an event similar to what twitch call twitch rivals but the afreeca version. And Apparently flash only took 3-4 days to prepare for 1 matchup vs those guys. So in his imaginary head he deadass believes that FlaSh is doing nothing different. But i mean. How could he know. All good tho. Atleast there is someone that knows what he is talking about. That is already a W in my book | ||
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Ze'ev
159 Posts
On July 16 2025 13:29 TMNT wrote: Sure bud. So far in this thread you've called a man a liar for saying his surgeries are real and cause injuries while calling Eonzerg a fucking idiot who cant use logic, lashing out at everyone around you.This response right here fits the description of immature piece of shit more than anything. removed image - mani Good luck with the malding. User was warned for this post | ||
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TMNT
3406 Posts
Our Stats friend TMNT However think progamers prepare for ASL just streaming in a weekly basis playing 2-3 games of proleague and thats how he messures progamer activity. No one said that. Honestly you are so pathetic. Again and again just twisting my words and never putting in any critical thinking. The game counts are from ALL online games, not just Proleague. As for the Chinese ultimate battle, Flash do play in them and have his share of unrecorded games too. Unless you have the data, you can't prove otherwise. Note that no discrepancy in the Chinese ultimate battle can make up for the 100 games Soulkey played less than Flash the past 9 months. It's baffling that while I can present data and methodology to prove my point, you have fuck all to show apart from pulling arguments out of your ass and assuming they are right by default, hence I must be wrong. Then he randomly picks FlaSh playing a TvT group in a round 16 vs Light Barracks Mong in 2020 cuz ofc flash need 2 weeks of harcore grinding to play that group cuz you know those guys were the most insane tvt players at the time. But what flash did instead was playing league of legends whole week in an event similar to what twitch call twitch rivals but the afreeca version. And Apparently flash only took 3-4 days to prepare for 1 matchup vs those guys. So in his imaginary head he deadass believes that FlaSh is doing nothing different. But i mean. How could he know. So you're saying because it's "only" Light Mong Barracks, Flash didn't need to "put in insane hours of practice"? Yeah let's say I agree. So actually he doesn't need to put in insane hours of practice after all eh? And why can't he do the same now? Surely he can do it in Ro24/16 now at least, given his current win rate and form? | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1328 Posts
On July 17 2025 00:02 TMNT wrote: No one said that. Honestly you are so pathetic. Again and again just twisting my words and never putting in any critical thinking. The game counts are from ALL online games, not just Proleague. As for the Chinese ultimate battle, Flash do play in them and have his share of unrecorded games too. Unless you have the data, you can't prove otherwise. Note that no discrepancy in the Chinese ultimate battle can make up for the 100 games Soulkey played less than Flash the past 9 months. It's baffling that while I can present data and methodology to prove my point, you have fuck all to show apart from pulling arguments out of your ass and assuming they are right by default, hence I must be wrong. Soulkey knows how to maintain his form by only committing to quality practice and matches. He is more about brain and coordination than raw mechanics. every player has different needs to stay in form. to each their own. are they wrong for doing things differently? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On July 17 2025 00:21 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Soulkey knows how to maintain his form by only committing to quality practice and matches. He is more about brain and coordination than raw mechanics. every player has different needs to stay in form. to each their own. are they wrong for doing things differently? What are "raw mechanics" in SC if I may ask? Just out of curiosity. | ||
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TMNT
3406 Posts
On July 17 2025 00:21 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Soulkey knows how to maintain his form by only committing to quality practice and matches. He is more about brain and coordination than raw mechanics. every player has different needs to stay in form. to each their own. are they wrong for doing things differently? No they aren't. Practice however they want. But not getting ideal practice conditions is not a good reason to dodge offline competitons. I'm sure the ASL dudes with kids and families don't have ideal practice conditions either. Didn't Snow and Light both have issues with their newborns prior to the last ASL that affect their game (Light even took a major break right before ASL because of that)? I don't see them skipping ASL. And it's especially true when you are still competing online. Last, Larva and Effort all cited injuries to retire from competitive BW, and while we can never know how much their injuries actually affected their performance or capability to play ASL, their actions were consistent with their words: they stayed away from competitive games even online. Flash is the only one who cites injury, giving his fans the impression of him being physically incapable to play, while at the same time putting in a very healthy amount of games online - the amount large enough that doesn't suggest such incapability. I think it's totally fair to question his motive in this case. Look no further than this thread, there are already comments from his fans saying "get well soon Flash" (suggesting the injury totally handicaps him from playing), or "Flash would have beaten everyone if his wirsts are still good". And that would be the general sentiment among fans when he plays the injury card as an excuse. We are talking about a guy who got mad and proclaimed to put Jangbi to shame only because Jangbi said he wasn't afraid of him (thus not appeasing to his ego), then proceeded to devalue Jangbi's OSL achievements because "we couldn't practice SC1 as much as him". Well, 10 years from now people could say a similar thing "Soulkey only won 4/5 ASL in a row because Flash didn't play because of injury". Maybe Flash doesn't mean for things to be like that, but from a PR point of view, people would more likely say that if he "retires due to injury". | ||
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Bonyth
Poland631 Posts
Same as you TMNT, I don't like how Flash uses wrist injury to not participate in ASL only, as opposed to withdraw from both competetive online games AND ASL. Perhaps he is the only one who uses wrist injury problem in this way. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7218 Posts
On July 17 2025 05:09 Bonyth wrote: In general, people often believe what they want to believe. he is the only one who uses wrist injury problem in this way. That first sentence is exactly what you are doing. Do you know Effort actually quit playing ASL for the same reason ? A wrist injury. Do you know what effort was doing in a daily basis on his streams ? 2-3 hours of Troll games. 3-4 hours of K-league. You can argue that K-league is not prime competition. But those players playing on it are insane lol. So there is not relaxing at all but maybe less money involved. and then to finish the session he will go to play an UMS Fighting Spirit 2v2 map for the rest of the hours. Now as far as i know Effort and FlaSh are the only progamers i know that had surgeries to fix wrist issues. So is/was Effort bullshiting about the injuries and participating in ASL. Btw i can actually concede in a point that TMNT said that he will prefer to see half machine FlaSh playing in ASL and just getting eliminated like the others. But i think when someone like that that has won so much. And it happened to many atlethes before that they are not in their prime no more so why continue going ? In FlaSh case however i feel like he truly want to compete again and thats why he commited to get those surgeries. But the issue here is that Starcraft is actually flash way to earn income. So stopping playing in proleagues etc is actually a financial hit for him. Is not like in real sports that he can just retire and do interviews or promos and make a living lol. Basically playing 2-3 games of proleague and with the right team at the end of the journey he can earn a lot of money. Didnt he say after coming back that he was actually the one getting scammed from the crypto runner and they are going to court and shit ? im pretty sure he mention about money issues. Im speculating a hell here but is OD to me that the guy got surgery and few weeks later is trying to play again and feeling pain. Who knows. Well you guys for sure know that he is just dodging it i guess. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland631 Posts
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TMNT
3406 Posts
Effort is the closest case to Flash. I just put him in the same sentence with Last and Larva for not having to type too much, but he is slightly different to the other two. You can say he is semi-competitive, in that he's playing below his level (by parking in the K League) and with reduced intensity compared to almost everyone (only more games than part timer Rain). But the major difference to Flash is that after Effort finished his military service, he went straight back to the first ASL he could, didn't get good result, admitted that he couldn't compete anymore and semi-retired. At least there are consistencies in his actions and words. If Flash hadn't dodged ASL19, there wouldn't have been much discussion. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey729 Posts
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TMNT
3406 Posts
On July 17 2025 10:45 mtcn77 wrote: I kinda wonder, since we can't even agree on this, whether any victory, or failure of flash really mattered in the eyes of his fans. After all, it looks like nothing matters, seeing what the callous trolls write about flash having to compete even in injured state. Damn, even I recall flash was joking with larva how little he won from starcraft compared to the crypto scam. Looks like it is his only stream of income, or so the uninformed TMNT thinks. Are you saying that we're implying that Flash has to play ASL for money? Nice strawman, as no one ever said that. Which brings us back to the financial point Eon made ealier: On July 17 2025 05:34 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: But the issue here is that Starcraft is actually flash way to earn income. So stopping playing in proleagues etc is actually a financial hit for him. Is not like in real sports that he can just retire and do interviews or promos and make a living lol. Basically playing 2-3 games of proleague and with the right team at the end of the journey he can earn a lot of money. Didnt he say after coming back that he was actually the one getting scammed from the crypto runner and they are going to court and shit ? im pretty sure he mention about money issues. Are you really painting the picture that an injury-struck Flash has to grind some proleague games through pain just to stay away from being broke, aka NeedMoneyFlash? Flash is probably financially set for life even after coingate. And if he wants to get money from the SC scene, there's the cash cow that is University league right there where the coaches don't even have to play to earn shit load. Plus, with his skills he can probably sleepwalk into Ro16 ASL without any serious practice, and earn some extra money off ASL and even much more from the ensuing donation streams. And then you also have the factual evidence: only ~100 out of the almost 500 games Flash has played in the past year are from Proleagues. So if the financial incentive from Proleague is the driving force for Flash to "play through pain", why would he play the other 400 games? | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1328 Posts
On July 17 2025 07:45 TMNT wrote: Personally I believe Larva Last and Effort can all play ASL if they want. Effort even returned for ASL16 and Larva is now returning to competitve games again, not to mention the time when he played 70+ consecutive games vs Soma (so much for your "injury", Larva). That's why I also said that injury is a convenient excuse for all of them when they don't want to compete anymore. Effort is the closest case to Flash. I just put him in the same sentence with Last and Larva for not having to type too much, but he is slightly different to the other two. You can say he is semi-competitive, in that he's playing below his level (by parking in the K League) and with reduced intensity compared to almost everyone (only more games than part timer Rain). But the major difference to Flash is that after Effort finished his military service, he went straight back to the first ASL he could, didn't get good result, admitted that he couldn't compete anymore and semi-retired. At least there are consistencies in his actions and words. If Flash hadn't dodged ASL19, there wouldn't have been much discussion. effort did return once in asl16 and ended in top 4, and then left asl 17 due to injury. He came back from service just before asl 11 and got ro16, and then retired from competition until asl16. Asl 18 and 19 he misses due to the alleged cheating scandal forcing him into a long break. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey729 Posts
On July 17 2025 18:10 TMNT wrote: Are you saying that we're implying that Flash has to play ASL for money? Nice strawman, as no one ever said that. Which brings us back to the financial point Eon made ealier: Are you really painting the picture that an injury-struck Flash has to grind some proleague games through pain just to stay away from being broke, aka NeedMoneyFlash? Flash is probably financially set for life even after coingate. And if he wants to get money from the SC scene, there's the cash cow that is University league right there where the coaches don't even have to play to earn shit load. Plus, with his skills he can probably sleepwalk into Ro16 ASL without any serious practice, and earn some extra money off ASL and even much more from the ensuing donation streams. And then you also have the factual evidence: only ~100 out of the almost 500 games Flash has played in the past year are from Proleagues. So if the financial incentive from Proleague is the driving force for Flash to "play through pain", why would he play the other 400 games? Right, why does he have to play? You aren't making any sense, if at all. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1780 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9430 Posts
Too bad he is only playing troll games vs far inferior players  But is making good money on youtube / stream so thats good for him. He has the skill for K League , at least !! | ||
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TMNT
3406 Posts
On July 17 2025 20:00 mtcn77 wrote: Right, why does he have to play? You aren't making any sense, if at all. For money? No he doesn't have to. I'm not sure what your point is. You're the one who isn't making any sense. But once again, you have never made any sense in your entire existence on this forum. | ||
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