FlaSh allegedly returning to StarCraft

On June 18 2024 18:03 llIH wrote:
Man please say this is happening!

On June 19 2024 01:11 Galacsia wrote:
I wonder what the korean community is saying, is there any push back?

I think he'll regain his level eventually, though first he'll be at a similar level than the rest of the top pros. Kinda like what happened in ASL 1. when he lost 0-3 against Last after returning from sc2.

On June 18 2024 14:52 Peeano wrote:
I have no idea who Kei is, but this is wonderful news. I hope he has done his time and gets accepted back like Bisu did. I'm also curious about Flash's dad's health nowadays and if that's a reason he's playing online again and getting into shape for upcoming SSL.

On June 19 2024 01:47 KameZerg wrote:
did he dropout due to forced conscription or because he scammed his audience? I don't remember.

On June 19 2024 03:46 y2kid wrote:
If I recall correctly people are mad not so much because of what he did, but he didn't have the balls to own his mistake and come up to apologize, like Bisu did. I may be wrong tho, fact check this.

On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote:


But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams.

On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote:


But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams.

On June 20 2024 04:58 NoobSkills wrote:


I don't know man, anyone who fell for the NFT crap or crypto crap are just salty get rich quick schemers. Was flash even aware that individual crypto's owner was going to pump and dump or that it was flawed? Like does that apply across the board? Is GSL responsible for obese people or those with heart conditions who may have had issues because they were sponsored by Hot6? Is every player who drank one also responsible?

Also the guy you quoted claims that cpyto is funny in that someone has to lose for someone to gain, and in a legit sense of the meme money concept of crpyto that isn't true. It doesn't HAVE to work that way and also it probably shouldn't if that is what it's real purpose is. This was a scam taking it outside of the realm of a weird digital currency.

On June 20 2024 12:38 Mizenhauer wrote:


Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road.

On April 21 2024 07:46 Mizenhauer wrote:


We all compromise our morals for the sake of entertainment and personal satisfaction. If it wasn't Saudis in SC2, it's the sweatshops that make your clothes or the chick fil a that you eat. I'd rather have some money go to the dudes playing StarCraft than some other nefarious purpose.

On June 19 2024 06:24 KameZerg wrote:


But it's still by definition a scam, it's only purpose was to bring in enough people to later dump it and runoff with their money and he shilled it to his viewers. One person making money and one losing money applies to all trading including stocks, but not all stocks are scams.

On June 20 2024 12:38 Mizenhauer wrote:


Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road.

On June 20 2024 21:08 Sentikoret wrote:
EL9830, you force me, Serral fanboy, to defend Mizenhauer.

There is a significant difference between "I am okay with faceless Saudis spending some money of beautiful esports event instead of arming another militant group somewhere in the world" and "I am, as a part of an audience, okay with this particular streamer/player leading other members of the audience, my peers, to ruin and possible suicide".

Alternatives to esports investments of Saudis are unpredictable and likely worse. Alternatives to Flash not being a heartless scammer - Flash being slightly poorer and way more respected.

On June 20 2024 03:31 ruhtraeel wrote:
My prediction is that next ASL (if he enters), he'll make it to ro8. Then he'll be consistently in the semis

On June 19 2024 03:05 ThunderJunk wrote:
Crypto is funny. If one person is making money off of it that means someone else is losing money off of it. But people all act like they've been morally wronged when they end up on the unfortunate side.

On June 20 2024 12:38 Mizenhauer wrote:


Flash seemed very content to lead a lot of people into financial ruin. South Korea is a very different place than Western countries and committing suicide when facing insurmountable debt is far more common than some would like to acknowledge. The whole scheme never really panned out but, judging by intent, Flash seemed to have no qualms about leading his fans and those who watched his stream down that road.

On June 21 2024 04:19 NoobSkills wrote:


Content how? I'm curious cuz I've seen it somewhat explained. He isn't a tech wizard. I don't think he knew it was a pump/dump fake coin right. You're expecting him to know things he couldn't know. Again I use the same question if hot6 were somehow the cause of some deaths, would the teams/orgs/players who were sponsored by them be responsible for their bad product? How about if a certain keyboard company sponsored a team/player/org pretending like they made high quality products, but it was trash that broke in 7 months. Again are they responsible for that?

And while I note that the suicide is very unfortunate and a different culture. That has no affect on him promoting a sponsor and that sponsor turning out to be crap. That could happen to literally every single person in the spotlight. And expecting them to know I think is excessive.

And when you say judging by intent I'm not sure what you mean. Intent means he knew something when the only intent I've seen is that he was promoting it because he thought it was real. The way you used it would seem to indicate he knew it was a scam or a pump/dump and profited off of it or at least thought he would.

On June 21 2024 04:19 NoobSkills wrote:


Content how? I'm curious cuz I've seen it somewhat explained. He isn't a tech wizard. I don't think he knew it was a pump/dump fake coin right. You're expecting him to know things he couldn't know. Again I use the same question if hot6 were somehow the cause of some deaths, would the teams/orgs/players who were sponsored by them be responsible for their bad product? How about if a certain keyboard company sponsored a team/player/org pretending like they made high quality products, but it was trash that broke in 7 months. Again are they responsible for that?

And while I note that the suicide is very unfortunate and a different culture. That has no affect on him promoting a sponsor and that sponsor turning out to be crap. That could happen to literally every single person in the spotlight. And expecting them to know I think is excessive.

And when you say judging by intent I'm not sure what you mean. Intent means he knew something when the only intent I've seen is that he was promoting it because he thought it was real. The way you used it would seem to indicate he knew it was a scam or a pump/dump and profited off of it or at least thought he would.

On June 21 2024 04:19 NoobSkills wrote:


Content how? I'm curious cuz I've seen it somewhat explained. He isn't a tech wizard. I don't think he knew it was a pump/dump fake coin right. You're expecting him to know things he couldn't know. Again I use the same question if hot6 were somehow the cause of some deaths, would the teams/orgs/players who were sponsored by them be responsible for their bad product? How about if a certain keyboard company sponsored a team/player/org pretending like they made high quality products, but it was trash that broke in 7 months. Again are they responsible for that?

And while I note that the suicide is very unfortunate and a different culture. That has no affect on him promoting a sponsor and that sponsor turning out to be crap. That could happen to literally every single person in the spotlight. And expecting them to know I think is excessive.

And when you say judging by intent I'm not sure what you mean. Intent means he knew something when the only intent I've seen is that he was promoting it because he thought it was real. The way you used it would seem to indicate he knew it was a scam or a pump/dump and profited off of it or at least thought he would.

On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote:
I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant

This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta".

On June 21 2024 05:25 jinjin5000 wrote:


he built up creditiblity from before as "crypto-guru" as he was pretty famous for making bank off of crypto investment among afreeca influencer sphere and people were actively seeking his advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am2m1n-h1Mk

IMO, I think his ego ballooned up way too hard and led to that incident. He probably thought he had magic midas touch.

On June 21 2024 06:22 End1ess wrote:


This is completed different case here. Your example is not related to this issue. Let say JD took sponsored from hot6 and help promote the drink. There is nothing wrong here unless JD also has hot6 shares than we have a case here.

If JD knew about hot6 related death and still take sponsors from them than that his choice to ruin his own image.

Flash has invested himself in the COIN and promote them even if he knew its fake or real. The more people buy the more money in his return because his early buyer. It look more like the pyramid scheme.

On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote:
I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant

This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta".

On June 21 2024 05:08 Rob-Zero wrote:


Well, but when you promote something to thousands of people, probably because you get paid for that, you maybe should inform yourself WHAT exactly you are promoting, and if you can't figure it out, maybe don't do it.
Flash has a lot of fans that look up to him - and he knows that, he is famous for a long time now - so of course he has a responsibility to those fans. And, if he doesn't acknowledge that, it costs him money, too.
I am not saying he should be further punished or he should not come back. But to say it was just some sort of bad luck is also not right in my eyes.

On June 21 2024 08:42 WombaT wrote:

100% this essentially

On June 21 2024 08:02 NoobSkills wrote:


Both videos it looks like he was downplaying his gains in crypto. Imagine investing off rumors about a guy making bank that weren't even claimed by that person, and then being mad at that person. And I get that he advertised the company, but that doesn't make him responsible for the company's shady actions unless he knew about them which doesn't seem to be what people are claiming. Are all pros responsible for the actions of their sponsors because grown adults can't think for themselves? If I were to tell you I once lived falling off the edge of a cliff but that I don't recommend it, should I be blamed because you want to see if you can do it too?



How does JD investing in hot6 or not maky any difference? Even if he makes money or loses money off that investment it changes nothing. There also isn't a "case" because nothing illegal was done right? I'm not sure about Korean law, but I don't think he is in legal trouble? This is seemingly about adults who made a bad choice looking for someone else to blame rather than admitting they made the mistake.

Meanwhile I'd argue different about the latter. If he KNEW hot6 was killing their customers, and was going to captialize on the rise and then the short sale I'd say there is an actual issue. It isn't about ruining his own image, but using insider information to rip off consumers.

As for Flash investing in the product that sponsors him wdym? You're saying that none of the pros in korea have any stock in any of the companies that support them or their team? Early adopter or not makes no difference either. If I bought a bunch of intel stock when I was 16 and then got a job promoting intel when I was 18 is that suddenly a crime? It makes no sense logically to me for it to be considered even negatively.

On June 21 2024 08:02 NoobSkills wrote:


Both videos it looks like he was downplaying his gains in crypto. Imagine investing off rumors about a guy making bank that weren't even claimed by that person, and then being mad at that person. And I get that he advertised the company, but that doesn't make him responsible for the company's shady actions unless he knew about them which doesn't seem to be what people are claiming. Are all pros responsible for the actions of their sponsors because grown adults can't think for themselves? If I were to tell you I once lived falling off the edge of a cliff but that I don't recommend it, should I be blamed because you want to see if you can do it too?



How does JD investing in hot6 or not maky any difference? Even if he makes money or loses money off that investment it changes nothing. There also isn't a "case" because nothing illegal was done right? I'm not sure about Korean law, but I don't think he is in legal trouble? This is seemingly about adults who made a bad choice looking for someone else to blame rather than admitting they made the mistake.

Meanwhile I'd argue different about the latter. If he KNEW hot6 was killing their customers, and was going to captialize on the rise and then the short sale I'd say there is an actual issue. It isn't about ruining his own image, but using insider information to rip off consumers.

As for Flash investing in the product that sponsors him wdym? You're saying that none of the pros in korea have any stock in any of the companies that support them or their team? Early adopter or not makes no difference either. If I bought a bunch of intel stock when I was 16 and then got a job promoting intel when I was 18 is that suddenly a crime? It makes no sense logically to me for it to be considered even negatively.

On June 21 2024 11:15 jinjin5000 wrote:


if you look at it very cynically, flash was intending to leverage his reputation as crypto investing g0d to promote a cryptocurrency that he was heavily involved in having stakes of, without reaving that aspect.

I think it's bit too cynical to look at, since FlaSh has way too much to lose in terms of image he had built up for decades when he already made loads, but you can't act like that when you've marketed yourself as mr.starcraft goodey-two-shoes.

People love tearing someone down when it goes against their image and flash pretty much did exact opposite of expected.

On June 21 2024 12:10 End1ess wrote:


Bro when I said JD has share meaning he owning X% of the company. Whatever the company makes a bad or unethical decision the owner takes fault. In here clearly flash is one of the biggest owner of the coin because the amount of money invested and early adopter.

You don't need to know Korea law that Flash has not broken any law or else be summons to trial and will be all over the Korean news.

WTF you talking about pros doesn't invest in any stock? come back to earth we talking about promoting a bad company and has ownership.

Your free to buy whatever stock at given anytime and work for that company. As long as you don't inside trading. eg) You over heard another coworker said there going be lawsuit against Intel and you dump all your share, yes this is a crime.

On June 21 2024 10:30 NoobSkills wrote:


Are yall serious? Let's say it comes out that hot6 is AWFUL for your health like far worse than any energy drink. Would the pros who were sponsored by them be in trouble because they promoted it? How about if the hot6 CEO sexually harassed employees? How about if hot6 the company employed slave labor? Or how about if hot6 was publicly traded and they cashed out knowing all that info above was going to come out and destroy their stock price?

How TF is a professional gamer, supposed to understand every aspect of every sponsor and be held liable for the shady dealings of others? And this one is even trickier because you're essentially saying he has to become a math, economic, business, crypto expert and somehow do detective work to figure out that the sponsorship is for a fake coin?

That is honestly IMO fucking unreasonable. Are people not responsible for their own actions? Not even to mention even LEGIT actual coins have had MASSIVE failures. What if that coin was legit and just bombed out to be worth a penny? Is it his fault then too when the price drops even though nobody did anything wrong and everyone lost money? I feel like this is just people trying to look for a weak cop out for their own actions and decisions, ESPECIALLY considering the insane risk/reward spectrum of meme internet currency such as a digital coin or NFT. If as an adult with any sort of normal IQ you can't figure out not only are those products unreliable but potentially scam heavy and unregulated. But also cannot manage your own risk and rely on the "investment" advice of an internet pro gaming celebrity that just seems childish and moronic and you only have yourself to blame.

On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote:
I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant

This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta".

On June 22 2024 03:26 Nirli wrote:
This thread was interesting when it was about Flash, the player.
Now it's about the people abusing the fact that they have keyboards under their fingers. Go drink a beer boys.

On June 22 2024 06:07 Peeano wrote:
I don't want to see another ZvZ finals nor a TvT one without Flash. Also I believe other players eager enough to win it all will try harder if Flash is involved. All in all actually less boring imo.

Btw Flash played Jangbi on the ladder a few days ago. I'm curious if Jangbi is just scratching an itch or if he's interested in SSL as well.

On June 22 2024 01:37 WombaT wrote:

Nobody is saying he should be some kind of expert in all these matters, merely that if he is not it’s not particularly responsible to promote such a venture to his fans.

You seem to want to put all the onus on said fans in terms of personal responsibility, but not on Flash from embarking on this particular path

On June 22 2024 06:07 Peeano wrote:
I don't want to see another ZvZ finals nor a TvT one without Flash. Also I believe other players eager enough to win it all will try harder if Flash is involved. All in all actually less boring imo.

Btw Flash played Jangbi on the ladder a few days ago. I'm curious if Jangbi is just scratching an itch or if he's interested in SSL as well.

On June 22 2024 06:21 jinjin5000 wrote:


I think FlaSh fatigue was pretty valid complaint tho. ASL maps being warped more and more over time and not having much diversity up the latter rounds due to anti flash based mappool made asls where flash dominanted kinda boring after while.

On June 22 2024 07:34 TMNT wrote:

Are you sure it was Jangbi or just someone who puts "Jangbi" in his ID? I think it's probably the latter.

On June 22 2024 06:07 Peeano wrote:
I don't want to see another ZvZ finals nor a TvT one without Flash. Also I believe other players eager enough to win it all will try harder if Flash is involved. All in all actually less boring imo.

Btw Flash played Jangbi on the ladder a few days ago. I'm curious if Jangbi is just scratching an itch or if he's interested in SSL as well.

On June 22 2024 04:31 Miragee wrote:


I agree. Flash possesses an understanding of the game nobody else does, which is why he will quickly adapt to a new meta and surpass his peers in understanding its intricacies. Of course it will take some time but considering that ASL will likely start in August, I think there is enough time for him.

Personally, I am not happy about Flash returning to ASL. Having the whole competition revolving around the idea whether or not anybody might be capable of beating Flash is utterly boring to me.




Right, it's totally unreasonable for people to discuss their discontent for a popular public figure who missused his popularity to try to scam his own audience.

On June 23 2024 13:47 Mizenhauer wrote:


Hilarious to think that grown adults (Flash) cannot realize that he would be ostracized as a result of this fraudulent venture.

On June 23 2024 14:53 Mizenhauer wrote:


His reputation in Korea has pretty much hit rock bottom. There is a ton of information about how deep this thing went and how bad it turned out on Korean websites (things like Flash blaming his Mom for being responsible for roping him into the Crypto scam or the massive backlash that was directed at the whistleblower in an attempt to silence/discredit her and end her streaming career to name a few), but then you'd have to do some research which might be too much for you.

On June 23 2024 14:19 NoobSkills wrote:


Fraudulent how? In terms of flash, there was no fraud sorry.

Again if hot6 were using slave labor and poisoning their clients, and manipulating their stock price, while sponsoring every single pro in esports across the globe. Would all of those individuals be responsible for the action of a company they do not own, have no knowledge of their actions, just because they have a little bit of stock in that company or received money for sponsorships from them?

Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol.

On June 23 2024 18:06 Salazarz wrote:
@NoobSkills, if 'grown adults' weren't 'susceptible to marketing strategies' then advertisement wouldn't even exist as a concept. Of course grown adults are susceptible to marketing strategies, that's the whole reason marketing is a thing. Something like a trillion dollars is spent directly on advertisement every year, and that doesn't even include a lot of advertisement-adjacent things.

Whether you like it or not, public figures with a following have a big influence on decisions made by their fans. Silly to pretend otherwise.

On June 23 2024 18:12 WombaT wrote:

But Flash actually hocked this coin? Personally, while not exactly being transparent on many things

Versus this alternate reality where Hot6 causes cancer and uses slave labour. Which isn’t exactly equivalent anyway as sponsoring something players are doing isn’t the same as personally selling snake oil

You’re doing the old ‘well nothing is 100% ethical so why bother?’ thing, and Flash seems to bear zero responsibility but anyone who invested is an idiot who should have done their due diligence according to you

On June 25 2024 00:55 FlaShFTW wrote:
Comparing someone who is advertising some random product like gfuel, hot6, hell a car or whatever is not the same as advertising for a stock/crypto/etc where the intention of the advertisement is that it's going to be a pump and dump, or even in general, when financial advice is much more serious and held to a higher standard than simply advertising a consumer product. (The same goes for unsolicited legal advice by the way which is why lawyers are very careful when friends come asking for help or advice on a legal issue to not be giving them legal advice without an adequate relationship). Investments vs mere consumerism are not the same and should not be treated the same. Which is why there is more regulation placed upon our financial markets than there is in advertising any ordinary product. Key example is RoaringKitty/DFV and his GME saga (part 2 happening right now).

I don't particularly have a side in this, I just want to see my favorite player return and play some good Starcraft, moral questions aside. But this line of argumentation from Noobskills is suspect at best.

On June 25 2024 19:47 ThunderJunk wrote:


That's so cool!

On June 25 2024 05:55 NoobSkills wrote:


Anyone of those companies (though unlikely) could be doing some sort of pump/dump or stock manipulation tactic as well. Also it either goes one way or the other. Either the coin is equal to a stock or it is equal to a piece of inventory, but either way I still don't think someone hired by a company to promote the company is responsible for that company's actions when they knew nothing about it. As for one entity having more or less regulation I'm not sure I buy that one is clearly leading. As for the GME stock it is far more perverse of a situation than the one with Flash.

On June 26 2024 03:31 Gescom wrote:

(1) there's a difference between advertising a soda product where the company is shady behind closed doors vs advertising shadyness itself
(2) don't advertise for things if you don't know what they are. especially financial/legal 'things'. you have a moral obligation to not be a jerk.

Both of these are so obvious that its clear you're arguing in bad faith and I shouldn't take this trollbait, but oh my god man...

On June 29 2024 03:07 FlaShFTW wrote:
FlaSh learning and then optimizing the current TvP 5 fact meta is going to be so damn scary.

On June 29 2024 07:09 prion_ wrote:
I don't really get what the point of arguing about whether what Flash did was wrong or not. It's not like he got banned from ASL or Afreeca. He made the decision to disappear on his own, nobody is punishing him.

On June 30 2024 09:54 tankgirl wrote:
this is slightly off-topic

but does anyone have a link to a VOD from OSL/MSL where FlaSh is shown using his ruler to setup his keyboard?

thanks

On June 29 2024 02:46 kogeT wrote:
So far what we see in games is that flash is still rusty and he tries to play up terran meta which fails and mech vs zerg (my own recommendation;-))

It looks like a long way to go for him to be top1.

On June 30 2024 19:05 ImbaTosS wrote:
FlaSh will, without doubt, return to the number one spot. I was never a fan particularly, I don't feel he made for exciting games, but that's precisely because they were so often a foregone conclusion. It would be bordering on delusional to bet against him being the top of the stack again, and I speak from experience as I'm myself a little prone to delusional fanboyism.

On July 01 2024 20:36 nimdil wrote:


Will he, though? Every player is destined to decline. Even Flash. I kind of expected that Jaedong will rise in ASL to the very top again - but he never did.
Perhaps this time Flash will "just" be ASL regular.

On July 02 2024 01:38 ThunderJunk wrote:
I watched a recent practice game of his against Motive. Stormtoss with serious macro gave him trouble, despite the fact that he was able to greed fully and go up to 5 bases. He couldn't get enough tanks in position without leaving his other bases open to counterattack... but it was a practice game where they were drilling a specific scenario. I think Flash is going to come back in a big way.

Flash has incredible practice partners who feel motivated to help him succeed to his utmost potential. Pros like Motive don't get enough credit for training with the very top players.

On July 02 2024 07:41 NoobSkills wrote:
It also lead to a random ASL run that was insane. And that alone is funny. But then it exposes something else, that if he can do it on random, and makes game ending choices on that. Were the players he was playing against actually grinding enough because he won some matches where he was CLEARLY behind, but not just with terran, but the other races. So maybe they should have hit the books a little harder, so maybe they too could have reached the level flash was playing at.

On July 02 2024 07:52 TMNT wrote:

What game in that ASL that he won after being behind? Afaik he won like 1-2 proper games. Rest was won off build order advantage (because he is random) or some cheese/mind game.

(obviously the games he rolled Terran don't count)

On July 02 2024 09:00 ThunderJunk wrote:


Effort goes out of his way to practice non-standard styles that require different adaptations. Like when he was going fast lurker ZvT when everyone else was just grinding Muta micro games. He was able to babysit his lurkers so incredibly well throughout that he didn't lose a single one and suddenly the Terran had no scans and NO IDEA what was in the fog of war - but afraid to scan to find out because he needed some for the lurkers, which could be anywhere! It took such a long time to finally get that vessel out that when he was moving out Effort not only had the tech he needed, he also had an economic advantage.

Mini was able to crush Effort 3-0 though. It was painful seeing such a brilliant ZvT tactician get duped by a nexus first on Invader of all maps. If Flash draws mini in the later rounds and avoids him in the group stages, he'll get a decisive victory against Mini - Mini can't actually macro past 40 probes in PvT. But, Flash will need to abandon his anti-Bisu upgrade terran build. If he leans on that build as a catch-all against a player that never macros past 40 probes, I'd be flabbergasted.

What I'd REALLY like to see is Sharp vs Flash. I think Sharp would be able to beat him in TvT this ASL if his desire to win is ignited. But, I wonder if it will be. The matchup I'm not worried about for Flash is TvZ. He's always been so dominant in that matchup.

On July 02 2024 07:52 TMNT wrote:

What game in that ASL that he won after being behind? Afaik he won like 1-2 proper games. Rest was won off build order advantage (because he is random) or some cheese/mind game.

(obviously the games he rolled Terran don't count)

On July 02 2024 09:00 ThunderJunk wrote:
What I'd REALLY like to see is Sharp vs Flash.

On July 02 2024 12:16 NoobSkills wrote:
There was a PvP game he was for sure behind.

And I believe there was one other zerg game that flash was playing?

But for sure the PvP he was going to lose.

On July 02 2024 16:46 TornadoSteve wrote:
On top of my head, his 2nd match against snOw where it was a PvsP. He was clearly behind but manage to win

It was in the RO16 with frEe, snOw and... I want to say hero!?

On July 02 2024 16:46 TornadoSteve wrote:


On top of my head, his 2nd match against snOw where it was a PvsP. He was clearly behind but manage to win

It was in the RO16 with frEe, snOw and... I want to say hero!?

On July 02 2024 17:09 TMNT wrote:



If you guys are talking about that game. No he wasn't behind at any point. Quite ahead actually.

He was playing a PvP in which his opponent opened with 12 Nexus, 1 Gate and no gas (because he didn't know Flash waa Protoss) which is the stupidest PvP build at pro level and can only work for D rank noobs. Flash was ahead in supply the whole game, had Reavers vs Dragoons, while Snow had to build Cannons and pulled Probes out to hold on to his life and could never even tech up to Reaver because of how far his opening set him behind.

Maybe Tastosis was misleading the audience with some stupid commentary?

Also there was no Zerg games that he was behind. Only a few games that he won off BO advantage (think ZvZ on Plasma but your opponents don't know you're Zerg lol).

That random run is so overrated that I hate it when people cite it as evidence of Flash's brilliance.

On July 02 2024 17:09 TMNT wrote:



If you guys are talking about that game. No he wasn't behind at any point. Quite ahead actually.

He was playing a PvP in which his opponent opened with 12 Nexus, 1 Gate and no gas (because he didn't know Flash waa Protoss) which is the stupidest PvP build at pro level and can only work for D rank noobs. Flash was ahead in supply the whole game, had Reavers vs Dragoons, while Snow had to build Cannons and pulled Probes out to hold on to his life and could never even tech up to Reaver because of how far his opening set him behind.

Maybe Tastosis was misleading the audience with some stupid commentary?

Also there was no Zerg games that he was behind. Only a few games that he won off BO advantage (think ZvZ on Plasma but your opponents don't know you're Zerg lol).

That random run is so overrated that I hate it when people cite it as evidence of Flash's brilliance.

On July 02 2024 19:51 TornadoSteve wrote:


Its not like it was somehow close... SnOw was ahead and there is no possible debate. He made a bad engagement and this is why he lost.

On July 02 2024 03:28 FlaShFTW wrote:

I feel like there was a compilation of all of FlaSh's starsense/maphacks from Kespa and even ASL period where he would just know, scan, and the casters are just screaming like wtf how does he know.

On June 24 2024 01:35 XenOsky wrote:


that is beautiful hotkey usage t__________t

On July 03 2024 02:20 WombaT wrote:
To those more knowledgeable, how lucky was Flash’s random run and if he tried again how likely would it be that he could somehow replicate it? Assuming he’s in top shape for the sake of this.

I’m a scrub lord in terms of BW knowledge compared to some of you so full disclosure.

I remember one ZvZ where he rolled that on a map he could do a fiendish cheese on, which can’t be done on other maps.

In terms of overall rolling in terms of opponent and matchup was he fortunate, unfortunate or roughly even in that respect?

On July 03 2024 05:30 TMNT wrote:

Very lucky. For starter, he rolled Terran 6/15 times. And from the 9 games he rolled offraces, he won 6.

Problem is, out of those 6 wins, 4 came off huge BO advantage (3 of which are basically free wins), 1 was a one-off gamble build (hidden Nexus on Eclipse). Only 1 was won based on pure skill (a PvT).

When playing Random as a Terran main, your hardest opponents would be the Zergs, since if you don't roll Terran, you will either play the mirror vs a Zerg main, or play the harder matchup of Protoss in PvZ. Plus, Zerg is least affected by BO choice when facing Random.

Flash was really lucky when he played Larva in the 3rd place match as he rolled Terran twice and rolled Zerg on the only map (Plasma) that gave him the BO free win. He was also lucky against Soma in the semifinals as he rolled Zerg first game on Plasma as well, and rolled Terran twice in game 3 and 4. But Soma pulled off an upset vs Flash to prevent Flash got to match point, and in game 5 and 6 when Flash rolled P and Z on normal maps he just couldn't cope with Soma.

On paper when you say Flash got 3rd as Random it sounds really impressive but when you dissect it, it's more about luck than skill.

On July 03 2024 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:


It is funny that everything about him boils down to only luck and BO wins. Luck just seems to only find flash and not the other players. And no BO disadvantage has ever been overcome, especially by someone who actually knows how to play the matchup to it's fullest extent.

On July 03 2024 06:19 TMNT wrote:

Who said "everything about him"? Who said "only luck"? You. Not me.

But seriously, instead of making generic comment like "overcome BO disadvantage", why don't you explain to Soma on how to play ZvZ on Plasma if you don't know your opponent is Zerg? Like, the only thing Flash needs to do is tech up to Muta on 1 Hatch and 0 Zerling and no matter what Soma does he will always be in deep shit once he finds out Flash's race. But sure, overcome BO disadvantage. Quite easy to say so when you're on the side of the BO advantage. Let Flash do a BBS and see how he can overcome a 5 Pool lol, which is exactly what happened to Rush in the 3rd game vs Flash.

On July 03 2024 02:20 WombaT wrote:
To those more knowledgeable, how lucky was Flash’s random run and if he tried again how likely would it be that he could somehow replicate it? Assuming he’s in top shape for the sake of this.

I’m a scrub lord in terms of BW knowledge compared to some of you so full disclosure.

I remember one ZvZ where he rolled that on a map he could do a fiendish cheese on, which can’t be done on other maps.

In terms of overall rolling in terms of opponent and matchup was he fortunate, unfortunate or roughly even in that respect?

On July 03 2024 07:04 NoobSkills wrote:
I mean your last 3 comments in this thread are largely about it being only luck and BO wins right? Excuse me if I was wrong. I mean you gave credit to him rolling T, but again isn't that also luck?

Okay let's "explain" why don't you go back and look at all the ZvZ's we've had in the ASL from the top notch zergs. Then just watch the BO and look at the results. This one is the best and funniest because there isn't a massive wide variance in ZvZ very little room to grab an edge that isn't given to you. Now count how many times that BO auto win wound up being a loss. This btw isn't specifically about Flash's game you might be accurate in that one that he was indeed ahead for whatever reason, but the general concept of BO wins which simply isn't true or at least not nearly as impactful as you'd like to pretend it is.

On July 03 2024 09:38 TMNT wrote:

You can't over-generalize like that. While it's true that not every BO advantage translates into a win, that statement has very little to do with Flash's games that ASL. The advantage he got from those games was huge. Like, bigger than cross spawn Nexus first, just to imagine.

- For example, vs Rush he went 7 Pool against BBS. First scout. Even I can win the game from there lol. Nothing with overcoming BO disadvantage there for Rush.

- The two ZvZ on Plasma are soooooo different than the usual ZvZ we see on standard maps that there's nothing to compare. Since you dont produce a single Ling on that map in ZvZ, it basically becomes who gets Mutas first will win (unless you have 100 apm, micro like a noob and forget to build overlords). And of course the Random player gets them first. You put any BSL Zerg there and they can win from there.

- You want another example of not being able to overcome BO disadvantage? Flash vs Soma on Benzene in the same series, except that this time Flash was the one at the receiving end. 3 Hatch before Pool vs 9 Pool. He typed gg. No overcoming anything here.

- Then you have the two games vs Snow which were won off a hidden Nexus and Snow doing a non-build for PvP.

The problem is, your original point is something like "Flash's random run is insane, he played the other races so well, even better than the players who main those races". It would have been true had Flash been at the receiving end of the BO disadvantage and overcome it with skills. But it's the opposite. He won a grand total of 1 game based on skills alone. The rest was helped massively by playing as random. He didn't show amazing Reaver or Muta micro, or insane macro as Protoss or Zerg. He played one PvZ, in which he couldn't defend Soma's 9 Pool despite the Lings going to the wrong base in the first place, forgetting to cancel the Nexus before Lings destroyed it because he failed the multitasking battle. He went full on Speedling all in vs Soma in another ZvZ (and lost), because he knew he wouldn't win a proper ZvZ on standard map.

To sum up, his 3rd place as random looks impressive on paper. But when you dissect his play as offrace, it's not impressive at all.

On July 03 2024 10:50 WombaT wrote:
He clearly planned very well for various eventualities, and was a very interesting and hyped run to follow. It did feel to me that I’d rather it remain a one-off as random can feel extremely coin flippy.

Openers in both SC games are pretty optimised around racial matchups so it does make things a bit wonky with that unknown factored in.

-Flash vs Rush if unscouted the BBS is at worst place equal. The difference was the decision to scout. Instead his build was interrupted, not in full effect so it isn't even a BO win.

- ZvZ on plasma before any sort of variance in build was made vs SOMA, soma already had supply lead, and the advantage in scouting, there was no difference, except he didn't make his Lair as early as possible.

And yes, I certainly do believe that a ZvZ where when everything about the build is equal at the point at which you scout the random player should go to the guy who plays ZvZ all the time

On July 03 2024 23:51 FlaShFTW wrote:

These excuses for justifying why FlaSh's random run was impressive is really exposing your inexperience/lack of knowledge in Starcraft. TMNT is 100% correct. You cannot say that Plasma ZvZ is a normal ZvZ map where players don't need to open with any lings. Making even a single pair of lings puts you at a severe disadvantage.

Defending FlaSh's 3h before pool against a 9pool as "not a bo win just a greedy build" doesn't even make sense. Every game has risk when you choose a risky bo. He got caught, end of. If it were the other way around, you'd be praising FlaSh for having such a brilliant choice of build. Not really how it works.

On July 03 2024 17:38 TMNT wrote:
Oh come on now you're just showing a lack of understanding of gameplay. No wonder why you think those BO advantages aren't significant.


Early pool vs anything proxy on the map is 90% win for Zerg already. The fact that he scouted the BB in the center just made it 100%. Plus, he did a 7 Pool. Of course he has to cross scout with a Drone and let the Overlord take care of one corner. Are you going to do 7 Pool and run randomly to one corner and pray the opponent's there like a noob?
We're now almost venturing to the territory where Flash builds a Depot and we'd go "Brilliant decision making and build order choice there".


This is an absurd comment. Just lost for words. Shows you have no clue how ZvZ functions on Plasma. What does "supply lead" in the first two minutes of a ZvZ even mean lol? Yeah let's drone up to 20 and have a "supply lead" while your opponent makes 6 speedlings on 7 drones to kill you. And what advantage in scouting does Soma have lol, the advantage of finding out which direction his death will come from? Flash had the biggest advantage someone could ever have on that map already, knowing his opponent's race. Why didn't Soma make his Lair asap? Is this a real question? Why would he when he didn't even know his opponent's race? Yep there was no difference, except for the only difference that makes you 100% lose lol.


Yeah, and see here the prime evidence you dont understand that game. The ZvZ on Plasma is 50/50 for the first two mins or so when the only thing you do is make drones, but the moment Flash puts down his Pool and Gas first with the aim for a faster Lair, it immediately turns into 99/1 in his favor. But since you can't understand that, you think the build was still equal when Soma or Larva scouted Flash.

But the bottom line is, if you're trying to prove Flash's brilliance as offrace, you better find an example where he outclasses his opponent with skills, or he himself overcomes a disadvantage. You can't take the games in which he had a massive headstart, in some cases almost a sure win, then piled on it to get the victory.

As I said, in some games you can put a BSL player to take it from there (from the BO advantage that Flash had with Random) and he'd win comfortably. Is the BSL player as good as Flash now?

On July 04 2024 07:02 Bonyth wrote:
I've heard that in 2v2 picking random with ally who chose his race, will give you only 11% chance of getting his race. Wonder if that's also true for 1v1. Wonder if that's why protoss went for 12 nex and zerg the non-fast muta build.
Or maybe they simply took the 67% odds, which is of course valid, just unlucky.

And btw if flash somehow magically always secures a BO advantage isn't that a skill in itself? Or does he not always do that and instead it is like any other match and he makes it work in his favor? Did he really have an insane headstart for an entire ASL experience of random?

Flash out here flipping coins and always getting heads which is what he picked according to you. In reality he created conditions to secure advantages that went unchecked by his opponents in most games.

On July 04 2024 09:12 TMNT wrote:
Noobskills, your username really checks out when it comes to understanding that ZvZ on Plasma. Soma made the 2nd Hatch before Lair because at that point he had like 10 gas AND his Pool hadn't finished! To put it into perspective, Flash started his Lair 15s before Soma's Pool even finished. Go figure.

Plus, why you kept talking as if Soma knew Flash's race? Overdrone? Okay so what if he didn't make drones and went 9 Pool 8 gas, only to find out later that Flash just put down a 12 Nexus (lmao). You see how fucked up it could be for the Zerg vs Random on that map now?

To sum it up for you: the only way for Soma/Larva to not suffer a BO loss vs Random Zerg on Plasma is to blindly go Lair asap. But if they do so and Flash is not Zerg, they'd suffer a BO loss vs Random Terran/Protoss. And that's why in the above comment, Bonyth mentioned the 67%.

On July 04 2024 09:36 TMNT wrote:
And this part:


No it isn't a skill lol. You're just sugarcoating it, the same way you see Flash "did nothing wrong" in the coin scandal. As I said, you're in the territory where Flash builds a Depot and you'd go "Great decision".

But seriously, the real reason he gets BO advantage more often than not is because he's Random. There are more than one person in this thread already explaining it to you, but you seem to not pay attention: it screws up the opening of his opponents. Plus, in a series, he can prepare his builds but his opponents can't.

He doesn't create the advantage. His race creates it for him. If Snow knew Flash was Protoss, he wouldn't go 12 Nexus. If Larva and Soma knew Flash was Zerg, they would go Pool first. If Rush knew Flash was Zerg, he wouldn't do BBS, etc. That's 4 out of the 6 games he won.

On July 04 2024 09:55 NoobSkills wrote:
They can't make plans vs facing random? I was unaware they weren't allowed to practice taking all factors into consideration. Is a 7pool 2gate and a BBS so different? How about nexus CC or 3hatch b4 pool? All the excuses, none of the prep work though. I guess it is simply impossible to have a somewhat middle of the road build that leaves you ahead in 66.667 percent of matches because he is an amateur at those matches lol.

On July 04 2024 09:44 NoobSkills wrote:


He was behind 8ISH seconds (flying time) due to the pool. He was behind another 12 seconds due to the fact that he didn't have minerals to go up to Lair, because he made the hatch before that. If you need me to grab you a stopwatch I can. And while that extra 8ish seconds does mean something because they were close spawn, the additional 12 meant more. But hey sure, soma couldn't beat an amateur zerg player by simply out muta microing him with even numbers right?

It does not matter how other scenarios MIGHT have worked out, they were at the same pacing.

You keep talking about a ton of other what if's that didn't happen in this match. He wasn't met by a terran or protoss, he was met by an amateur zerg player who beat him to lair by a massive time frame because he didn't make a hatch before spire in close positions. Decision making, not BO.

On July 04 2024 10:49 Turbovolver wrote:

You're now pivoting to "Flash's opponents didn't properly prepare for him playing random". Which may or may not be true, certainly harder to disprove than your earlier argument that "those weren't BO wins". His opponents were certainly gambling in some cases and maybe shouldn't have been, but do you realise something about this argument?

It speaks nothing to Flash's skill, and all to his opponents failing to prepare for his tournament gimmick. It in fact provides support to the key point of the people arguing against you, that Flash got a lot of those wins simply because he was playing Random, and not because he's Flash and some mega-God at all three races.

Fuck, I thought Flash being mega-God at one race was enough. And anyone who's not an anti-fan should acknowledge that PvT game with those reavers <3

On July 04 2024 11:06 WombaT wrote:

It’s kinda underselling Flash to call him an amateur if he’s off-racing, although yes technically accurate but the term has a certain implication.

The one advantage Flash has is way more pronounced in the phase of the game where his disadvantage is least exposed, it’s just the nature of the beast here. Flash’s not maining x race is way less relevant in the openers phase when the opponent is more blind than he is, and ofc in some 25 minute long macro slugfest you expect the main racer to pull out their advantage there.

I don’t understand what ‘decision making, no BO’ can mean in a context where there’s that disparity.

On July 04 2024 11:19 ThunderJunk wrote:
Don't let them keep you down, NoobSkills! These are the same people that obnoxiously think Corsairs are never viable in PvT, or that Artosis should have moved out instead of turtling on 3 bases.

But also, you're definitely a noob NoobSkills. I bet you play Protoss. I also play Protoss. There's definitely no way you play Zerg though.

Anyways - Flash is great. His random skills fell apart mostly in the Zerg and Protoss mirror matchups. No one knew what to expect from Flash as far as random timings go in PvZ or ZvP. But as Zerg against Zerg he simply had no idea how to play the matchup as well as his opponents. He lost to a lower-tier Protoss in PvP as well, looking quite helpless. All he could really do was go for risky cheese in those matchups - that's not playing from a position of power. That's playing from desperation. Power is when you could risky cheese but really don't have to.

On July 04 2024 06:02 Timebon3s wrote:
Yay finally!

Who gives a fuck about the stupid cryptoshit anyway. I'm here for broodwar, and I could not care less about what these n00bs do on their spare time ROFL.

Welcome back FLASH! Let's GOOOOOOOO

On July 04 2024 14:32 ThunderJunk wrote:


Could you recommend a nightly proleague that I could find and keep up with? I've always been an ASL guy, plus a few streams. I don't know about nightly proleagues.

Honestly, I really do miss the KESPA days - even though it was brutal on the players, that's when it was all being taken VERY seriously. That got me sitting up straight. It got me caring. Watching the shifting TLPD rankings. Reading the great works - the Power Rank. Praise be to they who made the Power Rank. That was really amazing stuff.

On July 04 2024 12:54 darktreb wrote:
Did Flash get lucky during his random run? Of course he did. Flash would be lucky to win his first seven games in ASL even as Terran.

But are we really coming all the way around to discrediting the run, just because NoobSkills doesn't know anything and keeps making terrible arguments? That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Some noob can keep making bad and wrong arguments for something, and still accidentally be right about some of it (obviously some of what's being said by NoobSkills is just borderline objectively wrong).

Flash's random tournament was a great run, and great entertainment for most. If you don't like seeing something that's never been tried before, in a 20+ year old game, well you probably shouldn't be watching ASL. It's already composed of a lot of "RNG bullshit". Everything from bracket luck to crazy maps that are arguably no better than RNG in effect. That's half the *fun* of ASL.

Fortunately there's plenty of nightly proleague style stuff going on so it's not like we're forced to choose.

Overall, it just seems silly the degree to which the pendulum is swinging here just because of one clueless poster. Just goes to show that the best way to discredit a player is to make a bunch of terrible arguments *for* them (kind of like what TMNT does all the time for Snow ).

Snow was ahead in that game. Sorry that you feel otherwise, he just got beat by a decision. Even losing probes he had better mining, more probes, and more supply. And would have had a greater lead if he didn't make that choice.

On July 04 2024 17:01 TMNT wrote:


It's not that I feel. It objectively is a fact. Here's the exact point before that last engagement in that game, okay:

+ Show Spoiler +

Many people got this game wrong. At this point Flash had 14 Goons on the map, plus 2 Reavers in a Shuttle. . While Snow had 10 Goons on the map, and 2 in his base watching for a drop. At this point, Snow's Robo was still building lol. And you can also see the supplies were almost equal. Snow wasn't ahead, and he was on 2 bases, hence his army was smaller.

And why he didn't have a Robo until 10 min into the game? Because of the BO loss he took at the beginning, which he would have never taken had he knew Flash was Protoss.

Any PvP specialist here can confirm that 12 Goons don't beat 14 Goons + 2 Reavers? Even if all of his Goons were at that nat defending this, he'd 90% lose anyway. Unless Flash played like a D rank and grabbed 2 Reavers and flied into 10 Goons lol.

On July 04 2024 09:44 NoobSkills wrote:
He was behind 8ISH seconds (flying time) due to the pool. He was behind another 12 seconds due to the fact that he didn't have minerals to go up to Lair, because he made the hatch before that. If you need me to grab you a stopwatch I can. And while that extra 8ish seconds does mean something because they were close spawn, the additional 12 meant more. But hey sure, soma couldn't beat an amateur zerg player by simply out muta microing him with even numbers right?

It does not matter how other scenarios MIGHT have worked out, they were at the same pacing.

You keep talking about a ton of other what if's that didn't happen in this match. He wasn't met by a terran or protoss, he was met by an amateur zerg player who beat him to lair by a massive time frame because he didn't make a hatch before spire in close positions. Decision making, not BO.

On July 04 2024 17:01 TMNT wrote:


It's not that I feel. It objectively is a fact. Here's the exact point before that last engagement in that game, okay:

+ Show Spoiler +

Many people got this game wrong. At this point Flash had 14 Goons on the map, plus 2 Reavers in a Shuttle. . While Snow had 10 Goons on the map, and 2 in his base watching for a drop. At this point, Snow's Robo was still building lol. And you can also see the supplies were almost equal. Snow wasn't ahead, and he was on 2 bases, hence his army was smaller.

And why he didn't have a Robo until 10 min into the game? Because of the BO loss he took at the beginning, which he would have never taken had he knew Flash was Protoss.

Any PvP specialist here can confirm that 12 Goons don't beat 14 Goons + 2 Reavers? Even if all of his Goons were at that nat defending this, he'd 90% lose anyway. Unless Flash played like a D rank and grabbed 2 Reavers and flied into 10 Goons lol.

On July 05 2024 01:49 TMNT wrote:
Now to get back to this point since I have some time:

No it doesn't work like that. You really lack understanding of the matchup. They weren't at the same pace at all.

To be as precise as possible: Flash started Lair at 02:11, Soma finished Pool at 02:28 while also had 100 gas. So if he banked mineral to make Lair immediately, he'd be 17s late anyway. The travel distance between them is about 10s. So in that case Flash would have free feast on the Drones for 7s no matter what (assuming Soma only made Mutas). That's already bad enough.

But you also forget to take into account the distance between Soma's main and nat. You made the wrong assumption that all of Soma's Mutas would pop at the same place and then they would be on even army. No, all of Flash's army would be in one place waiting for whatever about to pop out of the larvae, basically shutting down 1 base and killing everything popping out there.

In BW mirror matchups you don't do catch up build like that, especially when the rush distance is short. If you copy your opponent's build with a delay, you'll forever be behind. If Soma banked minerals to build Lair there, then his 2nd Hatch and 2nd Gas would also be later than Flash, which means his army size could never catchup with Flash, because the most important resources in ZvZ are Larvae and Gas. It's even more profound on Plasma since you don't make Lings on this map.

Finally, don't you think that if the solution in that situation is simply to build a Lair asap and play catch up with Flash, then one of the best Zergs in the world in Soma would know? Right? A noob like you can figure it out, but Soma didn't. How is that possible? The thought process behind building the 2nd Hatch first, then Lair (it was 7s delay compared to Lair first, not 12s like you claimed) is to have more access to Larvae and Gas, so there's a chance to catch up with Flash in army, despite inevitably losing some drones and units. Not that it should work, mind. That or Lair first, either way he's fucked. As you can see in the end even when Flash messed up his micro badly (Mutas didn't even shoot), it didn't matter because his army was superior in both size and positioning.

On July 05 2024 08:01 NoobSkills wrote:
So, you're talking about when flash got to engage half the army, not having to deal with the rally/canon. I'd imagine in almost 99% of PvP's if you let half of your army get trapped you lose regardless, but sure he was "behind". I wonder what would have happened if he didn't feel the need on two base, to not only have the more efficient economy 8 minutes later, but needed a big probe lead too. It couldn't have been a mistake to over focus on eco when his opponent was being that aggressive off one base right? It was a stemming build order issue that made him make additional probes and not focus on tech or more army, despite already having the economic lead.

On July 05 2024 08:01 NoobSkills wrote:

Flashs main to Somas natural was more like 13 seconds. Imagine if time were shaved on when the mutas popped, worst case scenario is 3v4 mutas. At that point split glaives and a closer rally. He would have had the same pop of mutas flash did, even if SLIGHTLY delayed off the same build. And there is no chance his muta micro could carry even or near even muta counts right? I mean simply impossible for a professional who has played 1000's of ZvZ's to out muta micro a Terran player.

You're trying so hard to make everything luck or BO based. And I'm not denying it played a part, but it is also a cope for mistakes made by players. Or what you're claiming is that random and BO wins suddenly take out all of the skill of these games and these pro players are so stuck at that point that they cannot compete. But if that is the case, considering flash's level of ability at the other races, why aren't more pros doing the same thing? I mean it is such an advantage, you could take any lesser pro and they'd do much better because going random and whatever build order you commit to will always be a BO win according to you. Easy ASLs for Speed coming soon.

On July 05 2024 15:28 Bonyth wrote:
Great, finally we agreed that there was a BO lead for Flash.
The discussion comes down to how much the build order impacts the chances for win. For ones it's a value close to 100%, for others it's a value closer to 10%. Good luck convincing one another )

On July 04 2024 18:25 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
If you think about it the only thing FlaSh hasnt been lucky is with this crypto thing. He is always been a guy with the golden touch. Wathever he does is sucessful lol. There is not doubt that there was a lot of luck involved in that Random run he did.
But there was a lot of skill involved too. I mean ofc there is . You just dont play ASL as random and go that far. Random give you advantage if you are good with all the races. Look at Bishop. He tried this random thing and didnt go far at all. Is Flash protoss better than Snow Bisu or Mini ? No . Is FlaSh zerg better than Soma Larva Queen ? Is not. Do you know what is better tho ? Preparation. I dont think there is a player that prepares for every single situation like FlaSh. Anyway remember that game vs Jaedong where flash trick Jaedong into commiting to attack a siege tank close to his ramp and Jaedong loss a won game just for that ? Bro is different really.

On July 05 2024 19:05 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:


Bishop picked though. Bishop did not select random In lobby. he picked a race in lobby. He just entered the tournameng as random because he played all races.

On July 05 2024 22:28 Souden wrote:


That's not Bisu, Bisu's current ID is C9_BisuTY. You can watch his recent vods on Afreeca to find out. The one Flash is talking to in the game is a cheater, hence the trash talk. The cheater usually lags the game so badly that its unplayable and forces the pro gamers to leave, which you couldn't tell when watching a replay.

On July 05 2024 22:28 Souden wrote:


That's not Bisu, Bisu's current ID is C9_BisuTY. You can watch his recent vods on Afreeca to find out. The one Flash is talking to in the game is a cheater, hence the trash talk. The cheater usually lags the game so badly that its unplayable and forces the pro gamers to leave, which you couldn't tell when watching a replay.