Does FlaSh owe his success to picking Terran?

On May 28 2023 03:37 TMNT wrote:
I dont understand his logic. How does him improving 4 years after debut have anything to do with the accusation that he wouldn't be where he is with Z or P? The former certainly doesn't explain the latter. I mean, who doesn't improve after their debut?

I'm tired of these clips where Flash makes a statement then proceeds to "explain" it by spitting something that doesn't explain it at all.

On May 28 2023 03:40 jinjin5000 wrote:


responds....

On May 28 2023 03:37 TMNT wrote:
I dont understand his logic. How does him improving 4 years after debut have anything to do with the accusation that he wouldn't be where he is with Z or P? The former certainly doesn't explain the latter. I mean, who doesn't improve after their debut?

I'm tired of these clips where Flash makes a statement then proceeds to "explain" it by spitting something that doesn't explain it at all.

To sum up my thoughts though:
- Is Tesagi true? Yes.
- Is Flash helped by Tesagi. Obviously.
- Is Flash still the GOAT given that Tesagi is true? Still. You can't change history.
- Would Flash still be the GOAT had he played Zerg or Protoss? No. He'd be the Maru and JD'd be the Serral, or something like that.

On May 28 2023 03:37 TMNT wrote:
I dont understand his logic. How does him improving 4 years after debut have anything to do with the accusation that he wouldn't be where he is with Z or P? The former certainly doesn't explain the latter. I mean, who doesn't improve after their debut?

I'm tired of these clips where Flash makes a statement then proceeds to "explain" it by spitting something that doesn't explain it at all.

To sum up my thoughts though:
- Is Tesagi true? Yes.
- Is Flash helped by Tesagi. Obviously.
- Is Flash still the GOAT given that Tesagi is true? Still. You can't change history.
- Would Flash still be the GOAT had he played Zerg or Protoss? No. He'd be the Maru and JD'd be the Serral, or something like that.

On May 28 2023 03:48 Shinokuki wrote:


I hate when people say tesagi. It's like shitting on lower level players and making it even harder for terrans at 1500mmr ~ 2500 mmr level. Terran is undoubtably the hardest race at those level and it is the least played for a reason. You can't even deny the fact that flash gave away so many optimized builds and his strategy over his years streaming in afreeca. Terran was DogShIt in fish server era where Bisu was dominating everyone such as light, mong, rush, mind. It was only when flash came back when t started dominating

On May 28 2023 03:48 Shinokuki wrote:


I hate when people say tesagi. It's like shitting on lower level players and making it even harder for terrans at 1500mmr ~ 2500 mmr level. Terran is undoubtably the hardest race at those level and it is the least played for a reason. You can't even deny the fact that flash gave away so many optimized builds and his strategy over his years streaming in afreeca. Terran was DogShIt in fish server era where Bisu was dominating everyone such as light, mong, rush, mind. It was only when flash came back when t started dominating

On May 28 2023 04:51 TornadoSteve wrote:


No doubt, his return helped. A lot.
Last was doing a pretty decent job at that point, though.

On May 28 2023 05:11 TMNT wrote:

Tesagi for me is short for Terran being the strongest race at pro level. I think many others agree too.

But not everyone is smart/knowledgable enough.There will be people who call Tesagi at every level, and there will be people claiming Protoss is easiest at top levels. You can't stop that.

On May 28 2023 04:19 Puosu wrote:
Isn't the take away message here that, rather than thinking about tesagi/pusagi/zesagi, we should instill a culture of praising good performance and criticizing bad performance?

sounds smart

I hate when people say tesagi. It's like shitting on lower level players and making it even harder for terrans at 1500mmr ~ 2500 mmr level. Terran is undoubtably the hardest race at those level and it is the least played for a reason. You can't even deny the fact that flash gave away so many optimized builds and his strategy over his years streaming in afreeca. Terran was DogShIt in fish server era where Bisu was dominating everyone such as light, mong, rush, mind. It was only when flash came back when t started dominating

On May 28 2023 06:18 Shinokuki wrote:
Tesagi was only achieved ~1.8 year after flash came back and started pumping out builds after builds and optimizing it. Weren't you aware of the scene that came before flash came? T was failing hard. Heck even shuttle won ASL lol

On May 28 2023 08:27 TMNT wrote:

I mean, Bisu is still dominating Mong Rush and Mind right now. He's not known for his PvT but still easily top 3 PvT at any given time. So I'm not sure Bisu dominating those guys means anything.


The post-Kespa prior-ASL era is somewhat a chaotic era at pro level, as some were still playing SC2, some were in the military, some went into (temporary) retirement, and some just hadn't found their form back. So I wouldn't read too much into it.

That said, I don't think Terran was dogshit during that time. Here's the last 3 SonicTV Starleague (2014-2015): 9th 10th 11th. Terran occupied 9 out of 24 places in Ro8, 5 out of 12 places in Ro4, and 2 out of 6 places in finals. Not bad at all.

Mind also won this pre-ASL tournament and Terran still occupied 3 places in the Ro8 of the VANT Starleague (ASL0).

Terran also occupied 5 places in the Ro8 of ASL1 - the one that Shuttle won. Make no mistake, I made fun about Shuttle as well but he was a much better player in the early ASL seasons compared to post-military Shuttle.

So in general I think you're overrating how bad Terran was back then. It's pretty much akin to seeing Terran getting battered by Snow right now and think most of them are dogshit.

On May 28 2023 08:28 jinjin5000 wrote:


I recall atmosphere among community regarding terran was at pretty much all time low and lots of claiming "solved race" was being thrown about and not even flash can fix this race attitude

So exact opposite of tesagi memes the plagued at peak during flash asl dominance

On May 28 2023 08:27 TMNT wrote:

I mean, Bisu is still dominating Mong Rush and Mind right now. He's not known for his PvT but still easily top 3 PvT at any given time. So I'm not sure Bisu dominating those guys means anything.


The post-Kespa pre-ASL era is somewhat a chaotic era at pro level, as some were still playing SC2, some were in the military, some went into (temporary) retirement, and some just hadn't found their form back. So I wouldn't read too much into it.

That said, I don't think Terran was dogshit during that time. Here's the last 3 SonicTV Starleague (2014-2015): 9th 10th 11th. Terran occupied 9 out of 24 places in Ro8, 5 out of 12 places in Ro4, and 2 out of 6 places in finals. Not bad at all.

Mind also won this pre-ASL tournament and Terran still occupied 3 places in the Ro8 of the VANT Starleague (ASL0).

Terran also occupied 5 places in the Ro8 of ASL1 - the one that Shuttle won. Make no mistake, I made fun about Shuttle as well but he was a much better player in the early ASL seasons compared to post-military Shuttle. Somehow this resembles ASL15 where there were 5 Zergs but an unlikely winner (JYJ) took the crown.

So in general I think you're overrating how bad Terran was back then. It's pretty much akin to seeing Terran getting battered by Snow right now and think most of them are dogshit.

On May 28 2023 03:48 Shinokuki wrote:


I hate when people say tesagi. It's like shitting on lower level players and making it even harder for terrans at 1500mmr ~ 2500 mmr level. Terran is undoubtably the hardest race at those level and it is the least played for a reason. You can't even deny the fact that flash gave away so many optimized builds and his strategy over his years streaming in afreeca. Terran was DogShIt in fish server era where Bisu was dominating everyone such as light, mong, rush, mind. It was only when flash came back when t started dominating