• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:59
CEST 15:59
KST 22:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event3Serral wins EWC 202543Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments4[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced63
StarCraft 2
General
uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025) Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments WardiTV Mondays RSL Season 2 Qualifier Links and Dates StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Global Tourney for College Students in September
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups StarCraft player reflex TE scores BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 562 users

[ShowMatch] Foreign All-Star vs Korean Gamer - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6595 Posts
April 13 2021 10:17 GMT
#61
I wouldnt be that optimistic about those stats.
As far as I know he was playing a minimum of 9 games vs the same player.So after 5-0 (I suspect is when progamer secured money ?)They proly started to mix more builds and he could sneak some victories.

That said I never seen such hate before In a foreigner vs korean progamer.We are talking about best progamers. Sorry and Rush will make Miso 815 YSC or Ample looks really bad too.
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4195 Posts
April 13 2021 12:14 GMT
#62
On April 13 2021 19:03 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 17:00 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
On April 13 2021 16:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think Dewalt is as close to korean progamers as anyone has been in the past 15 years - most certainly if you don't include people living in Korea. The following stats (taken from the reps.ru victory day celebration threat) are as good as any I've seen after like... blackman vs aquarius back in 2002 or whatever (If you go back to 2001 or earlier, you can make decent arguments that the top players were not korean):

pvz vs progamer/top amateur: 305W - 778L
Dewalt 54:208 Shine
Dewalt 32:70 816
Dewalt 5:24 Action

PvT: 265W - 749L
Dewalt 6:16 Bishop
Dewalt 18:88 Hiya
Dewalt 10:40 sSak

PvP 297W - 601L
Dewalt 10:48 Snow
Dewalt 26:48 Mighty
Dewalt 24:64 Ruin

But I mean, going by this, the best two nonkoreans (dewalt and bonyth) have something like a 15-20% shot against the really good progamers like action and snow. The other nonkoreans have less of a shot. PvT seems like the toughest matchup too. So Rush/Sorry 9-0ing isn't a big surprise, but a 7-2 or 8-1 win wouldn't be particularly surprising either.

Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. )

"Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. "

Where can I find some more details about this event? ^

it's 815 btw


(Wiki)Mystery-Map Invitational

http://classic.battle.net/scevents/SC-MM-FAQ.html

Thanks a lot ^^
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
...onmYwaY
Profile Joined August 2018
92 Posts
April 13 2021 12:48 GMT
#63
It's impressive to beat any pro, of course. However, when I see most pro gamers stream ladder they usually play very relaxed, not overly competitive, if any. Either way it's a big difference to how they play in competition.

Whenever they face a 16TR opponent it's usually not that commited tbh.

One thing that I particularly noticed when Snow played vs. Scan in ASL is how calm he is and the level that he is controlling the game. Of course he will lose some off games but I feel like most pros only need the tiniest advantage to win any game. Non-pros very seldom bring that advantage back and are able to win.
...onmYwaY
Profile Joined August 2018
92 Posts
April 13 2021 12:56 GMT
#64
By the way...

@Scan thank you so much for the awesome casting, both in ASL and All-star... I loved the ASL games and I can't wait to see you crack that RO16. The sSak game was so close, amazing job to catch up and almost reverse the advantage several times.
nyoken
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States100 Posts
April 13 2021 13:00 GMT
#65
Hoping foreigners can put some wins on the board. My prediction before this event started was foreigners getting 3 wins, still hoping they can do that
...onmYwaY
Profile Joined August 2018
92 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-13 13:09:49
April 13 2021 13:09 GMT
#66
I think it all comes down to get that dream opening, either by some early aggression or a build order advantage and then ride on that to the perfect timing attack to end the game.

Perhaps against Action? Zerg can get into real nightmares openings, losing drones to a 8RAX or sneak by some vultures in ZvT. Dewalt and Bonyth can for sure micro those zealots really well and perhaps get a few drone kills and end it with a sharp 7+ minute timing, like a corsair/+1 zealot.

Snow will be really hard to beat though. That would probably, again rely on a zerg having a great opening: perhaps Trutacz can get a few lings in to harass and follow up with a perfect hydra bust.

Anyway, we've done it before - go All-stars!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42695 Posts
April 13 2021 16:12 GMT
#67
On April 13 2021 21:48 ...onmYwaY wrote:
It's impressive to beat any pro, of course. However, when I see most pro gamers stream ladder they usually play very relaxed, not overly competitive, if any. Either way it's a big difference to how they play in competition.

Whenever they face a 16TR opponent it's usually not that commited tbh.

One thing that I particularly noticed when Snow played vs. Scan in ASL is how calm he is and the level that he is controlling the game. Of course he will lose some off games but I feel like most pros only need the tiniest advantage to win any game. Non-pros very seldom bring that advantage back and are able to win.

Dewalt is TR24 to Korea by the way. But you’re right that there is a world of difference between casual ladder play and tournament play. That’s true for both foreigners and Koreans but the difference is larger for Koreans due to their professional status. When they practice for a specific game they do so in a more effective way with better practice partners and other resources. BSL Bonyth > regular Bonyth but ASL Flash >>>> regular Flash.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
angry_maia
Profile Joined August 2020
314 Posts
April 13 2021 18:14 GMT
#68
I think this event is awesome, and don't understand why so many people seem to complain about the skill gap. As a casual viewer, it's hard to pick out huge differences between BSL matches and ASL matches (aside from occasional macro differences), so watching matches like these are quite interesting to me.

As other people have said, it's worth noting that Sorry and Rush (especially Rush) are ludicrously strong right now and i'd honestly favor rush against most Korean protosses, let alone Dewalt or Bonyth.

Looking forward to other matches in this series!
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada119 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-14 01:59:42
April 13 2021 23:27 GMT
#69
On April 14 2021 03:14 angry_maia wrote:
I think this event is awesome, and don't understand why so many people seem to complain about the skill gap. As a casual viewer, it's hard to pick out huge differences between BSL matches and ASL matches (aside from occasional macro differences), so watching matches like these are quite interesting to me.

As other people have said, it's worth noting that Sorry and Rush (especially Rush) are ludicrously strong right now and i'd honestly favor rush against most Korean protosses, let alone Dewalt or Bonyth.

Looking forward to other matches in this series!


I'm a pretty casual viewer as well, but the most obvious thing that sticks out to me is unit control. In BSL matches, I see way more small unit control mistakes, such as groups of Mutas accidentally flying over Marines, units splitting up and fighting single file, slightly late Sieges, small groups of idle units etc.

I think the more advanced viewer would be able to tell things like timings and strategy differences.
...onmYwaY
Profile Joined August 2018
92 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-14 09:13:51
April 14 2021 09:12 GMT
#70
I very much appreciate this game series. Even though it's not competition it would make sense if the Pros at least viewed this as a semi-important exhibition and put in the effort to display their real skill.

This is the beauty of StarCraft:Brood War, the hardest game on the planet. The skill ceiling is so freaking high that you can keep playing for 20+ years and still improve day by day - amazing. There is so much to admire in these players - all of them.

If only the rest of the world knew...
elpolloloco31
Profile Joined April 2018
145 Posts
April 14 2021 13:00 GMT
#71
koreans are just too good i got sad watching my favorite europeans get smashed. i was impressed by sziky most. hope we can get a win next time.

great casting by scan by the way. appreciate all efforts for putting these awesome games. keep up the good work guys.
fazek42
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hungary438 Posts
April 14 2021 19:50 GMT
#72
I second those people who say it's awesome to see matches like this. I think it's super interesting, and I don't mind it being one-sided. It's fun to see our heroes go up against the very best of the best, a big thank you to them for playing against these monster opponents, a big thank you to the pros showing up, and of course, most of all, thank you for organizing and casting this! It was amazing and it really brightened my day. Brood War is amazing!
Sonic_md
Profile Joined March 2020
Moldova275 Posts
April 16 2021 06:54 GMT
#73
hello
today will be matches vs Action or no?

thx
Subscribe to my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Sonic_md...."SC:BW it is just game, but i love this game!" (c)Sonic_md.
martoto088
Profile Joined August 2020
32 Posts
April 16 2021 09:10 GMT
#74
On April 16 2021 15:54 Sonic_md wrote:
hello
today will be matches vs Action or no?

thx


It shoulda be today, but they changed date last minute...
Do you think is because the foreigners are to ashamed of how bad they are and do not want to participate anymore? Cut the damage?

User was temp banned for this post.
Cruiser0929
Profile Joined December 2019
516 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-16 11:23:41
April 16 2021 11:23 GMT
#75
[image loading]

April 16,
09:00 PM EST

April 17,
03:00AM CET

Scan and Nyoken cast this showmatch
stream link : https://bj.afreecatv.com/dth03119/

If you want to contribute to Show Match, you can contribute through Matcherino
https://matcherino.com/tournaments/30335/
Sonic_md
Profile Joined March 2020
Moldova275 Posts
April 16 2021 11:55 GMT
#76
Yeah thanks. then the games will be in 6 hours. Yes?
Subscribe to my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Sonic_md...."SC:BW it is just game, but i love this game!" (c)Sonic_md.
oEkY
Profile Joined August 2016
Germany649 Posts
April 16 2021 12:58 GMT
#77
On April 16 2021 20:55 Sonic_md wrote:
Yeah thanks. then the games will be in 6 hours. Yes?


3AM CET should be in 12 hours from now
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42695 Posts
April 16 2021 15:04 GMT
#78
On April 16 2021 18:10 martoto088 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2021 15:54 Sonic_md wrote:
hello
today will be matches vs Action or no?

thx


It shoulda be today, but they changed date last minute...
Do you think is because the foreigners are to ashamed of how bad they are and do not want to participate anymore? Cut the damage?

This is a really stupid question. Players love playing progamers, even if they lose. It’s like passionate golfers having a chance to play golf with Tiger Woods, nobody cares if they lose, they’re just happy to have that experience because they’re fans of the game.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8055 Posts
April 16 2021 16:32 GMT
#79
On April 16 2021 21:58 oEkY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2021 20:55 Sonic_md wrote:
Yeah thanks. then the games will be in 6 hours. Yes?


3AM CET should be in 12 hours from now


Yes, for us in Romania / Moldova is in the middle of the night haha!

We'll see them tomorrow I guess
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Sonic_md
Profile Joined March 2020
Moldova275 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-16 18:29:47
April 16 2021 18:28 GMT
#80
yes for Romania and Moldova is in the middle of the night

Action and Shine for today is my 2 favourites Zergs.
Action gogo)) Show to us some ACTION))

will see all games tomorrow 17-04-2021
Subscribe to my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Sonic_md...."SC:BW it is just game, but i love this game!" (c)Sonic_md.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LiuLi Cup
11:00
#1
WardiTV950
TKL 220
Rex120
IntoTheiNu 39
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 220
Rex 120
Livibee 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50392
Rain 6963
Sea 3211
Bisu 2582
ggaemo 1852
ZerO 1323
Mong 918
Soulkey 868
Barracks 607
BeSt 588
[ Show more ]
Snow 325
hero 248
Larva 232
Zeus 214
Soma 202
Pusan 201
Killer 176
Mini 172
sSak 132
Sharp 80
JYJ63
Dewaltoss 62
Aegong 57
Sacsri 44
sorry 31
Sexy 27
[sc1f]eonzerg 27
soO 26
Shine 20
yabsab 16
Bale 15
IntoTheRainbow 13
scan(afreeca) 11
JulyZerg 9
Terrorterran 8
ivOry 2
Stormgate
Lowko474
BeoMulf160
Dota 2
Gorgc5368
qojqva2820
XcaliburYe435
boxi98167
Counter-Strike
SPUNJ499
flusha221
kRYSTAL_42
Other Games
singsing2558
hiko1674
B2W.Neo1427
crisheroes540
DeMusliM391
RotterdaM237
XaKoH 102
KnowMe95
ArmadaUGS75
QueenE68
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta23
• iHatsuTV 9
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki6
• iopq 4
• FirePhoenix2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV552
League of Legends
• Nemesis2334
• Jankos1069
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 1m
RSL Revival
12h 1m
RSL Revival
20h 1m
SC Evo League
22h 1m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 1h
CSO Cup
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.