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Cruiser0929
516 Posts
Today's video is a showmatch series of Foreign All-Star vs Rush and Sorry! Cast by Scan! Thank you for watching If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and like! And please write comments for Caster who is trying hard for Starcraft fans! Your support will greatly help StarCastTV produce better content and increase production value. https://www.patreon.com/starcasttv If you want to contribute to Show Match, you can contribute through Matcherino https://matcherino.com/tournaments/30335/ | ||
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Duke_nk
38 Posts
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LfunkGG
78 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
 maybe then the games would be closer and more exciting | ||
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TMNT
3247 Posts
I dont mind the skill gap, its still refreshing to watch these kind of events. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46232 Posts
On April 12 2021 08:41 Cruiser0929 wrote: Hi guys! A new video has been uploaded to StarCastTV! Today's video is a showmatch series of Foreign All-Star vs Rush and Sorry! Cast by Scan! Thank you for watching If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and like! And please write comments for Caster who is trying hard for Starcraft fans! Your support will greatly help StarCastTV produce better content and increase production value. https://www.patreon.com/starcasttv https://youtu.be/X0x7LeRhV04 If you want to contribute to Show Match, you can contribute through Matcherino https://matcherino.com/tournaments/30335/ Thanks for posting the VOD! | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
There are a lot more weaker players than these two in the semi/pro catalog of players. | ||
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On April 13 2021 01:07 MapleLeafSirup wrote: The skill gap is as high as expected, it is much higher than in like 2008 and 2009. Still, these games are fun to watch and it is interesting to see how programers exploit the weaknesses of "just very good" players. I don't think it is. You think at WCG those games the progamers lost was due to them just not being able to handle the players they played. The one I think about most is Silent Control vs Fisheye. Probably if they played 100 games, Fisheye would've won like 5. He just played the better series those games and took advantage of the cheesy play foreigners are way more used to. It's in a same way Dewalt got a decent result vs Scan now. Of course, Scan is not up there with the very top Koreans, but I feel cheese is just more common in the foreigner scene and they thus know how to deal with it better (unless really high level, you could argue at that time if Silent Control was). Anyway, I don't feel it's that much different than before. In a normal, standard game there's probably no foreigner that will take a game off of a Korean pro. That's gonna be really hard. I feel foreigners were closer in days of the past (think of the Nony and Ret days). Right now I'd say that's pretty unlikely. But yea, difference has always been big I"d say, tournament games (like back in 2008-2009) don't mean a lot. Those were series that were based mostly on cheese. In the end I feel that was and still is the only way they can win. Nothing wrong with that either, but it's not like foreigners were ever able to play straight up games with top Koreans (afaik, but feel free to prove me wrong). | ||
KwarK
United States44199 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On April 13 2021 03:07 KwarK wrote: Dewalt is good enough that if he plays a gamble build (like he did on Reverse Temple) and gets a few lucky advantages (cross map, last scouted, Scan opting for a weaker macro opening than Dewalt’s) he can absolutely close it out. Not every game starts 50/50, due to smart builds and some good luck Dewalt was effectively playing with bonus minerals and the skill gap is close enough that top foreigners can win from there. I have to see more games for that, I feel he pounced on his advantage pretty soon. If he cannot do that, I'll still have to see how he handles a longer game in which the opponent comes back. I am also not trying to shittalk on Dewalt. I know it's a damn tough job to take on these Korean juggernauts, but I feel in the games that I did see (the Dewalt vs Scan series) it was a combination of Dewalt doing cheesy (or not very normal) builds, while Scan was also reacting to them rather poorly. Anyway, Don't wanna put all attention to that, Dewalt is a great player and I am not trying to shit talk him at all (you might get that idea when reading my posts). I just hink the gap is bigger than you might get the idea from if just looked at the results from for instance those games vs Scan (and then to think Dewalt should've actually won that series). I don't feel the gap now is closer than it has been in the past. I still feel in the times as mentioned before (Nony/Ret) those were the closest to Korean level as anyone has ever been (and it was still a huge gap). I hope any of the guys nowadays can make it though and if any foreigner would qualify for ASL, that would instantly make them the best so far I'd say. But that's not an easy task and I doubt it'll happen. | ||
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ruhtraeel
Canada134 Posts
That being said, where was Eonzerg? I'd like to think he would have an ok chance of taking a win, maybe against Snow/another Protoss player | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
There's a big gap even between top 10 and top 30 (30th doesn't even qualify for ASL ro24). No need to overreact to a completely expected result. If Flash stomped these 9 players no one would bat an eye. Rush and Sorry are almost as good as Flash (at least at this very moment in time). That's how good they are right now! They just haven't had major league results so people who aren't following the Korean scene as closely assume they are "lower tier pros". | ||
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ox.tQ
800 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28873 Posts
pvz vs progamer/top amateur: 305W - 778L Dewalt 54:208 Shine Dewalt 32:70 816 Dewalt 5:24 Action PvT: 265W - 749L Dewalt 6:16 Bishop Dewalt 18:88 Hiya Dewalt 10:40 sSak PvP 297W - 601L Dewalt 10:48 Snow Dewalt 26:48 Mighty Dewalt 24:64 Ruin But I mean, going by this, the best two nonkoreans (dewalt and bonyth) have something like a 15-20% shot against the really good progamers like action and snow. The other nonkoreans have less of a shot. PvT seems like the toughest matchup too. So Rush/Sorry 9-0ing isn't a big surprise, but a 7-2 or 8-1 win wouldn't be particularly surprising either. Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. ) | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
On April 13 2021 16:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think Dewalt is as close to korean progamers as anyone has been in the past 15 years - most certainly if you don't include people living in Korea. The following stats (taken from the reps.ru victory day celebration threat) are as good as any I've seen after like... blackman vs aquarius back in 2002 or whatever (If you go back to 2001 or earlier, you can make decent arguments that the top players were not korean): pvz vs progamer/top amateur: 305W - 778L Dewalt 54:208 Shine Dewalt 32:70 816 Dewalt 5:24 Action PvT: 265W - 749L Dewalt 6:16 Bishop Dewalt 18:88 Hiya Dewalt 10:40 sSak PvP 297W - 601L Dewalt 10:48 Snow Dewalt 26:48 Mighty Dewalt 24:64 Ruin But I mean, going by this, the best two nonkoreans (dewalt and bonyth) have something like a 15-20% shot against the really good progamers like action and snow. The other nonkoreans have less of a shot. PvT seems like the toughest matchup too. So Rush/Sorry 9-0ing isn't a big surprise, but a 7-2 or 8-1 win wouldn't be particularly surprising either. Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. )"Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. "Where can I find some more details about this event? ^ it's 815 btw  | ||
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iRk-AGge
Sweden400 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
Unfortunately foreigners still have a long way to go in terms of both mechanics and game understanding. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On April 13 2021 16:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think Dewalt is as close to korean progamers as anyone has been in the past 15 years - most certainly if you don't include people living in Korea. The following stats (taken from the reps.ru victory day celebration threat) are as good as any I've seen after like... blackman vs aquarius back in 2002 or whatever (If you go back to 2001 or earlier, you can make decent arguments that the top players were not korean): pvz vs progamer/top amateur: 305W - 778L Dewalt 54:208 Shine Dewalt 32:70 816 Dewalt 5:24 Action PvT: 265W - 749L Dewalt 6:16 Bishop Dewalt 18:88 Hiya Dewalt 10:40 sSak PvP 297W - 601L Dewalt 10:48 Snow Dewalt 26:48 Mighty Dewalt 24:64 Ruin But I mean, going by this, the best two nonkoreans (dewalt and bonyth) have something like a 15-20% shot against the really good progamers like action and snow. The other nonkoreans have less of a shot. PvT seems like the toughest matchup too. So Rush/Sorry 9-0ing isn't a big surprise, but a 7-2 or 8-1 win wouldn't be particularly surprising either. Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. )That's actually pretty impressive based on just ladder stats. If both of them can get some decent coaching from like Bisu/Stork and consistent practice games vs other progamers I could see them taking games more consistently off them. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28873 Posts
On April 13 2021 17:00 M3t4PhYzX wrote: "Edit: I guess back in 2005, when team europe beat team asia 3-2, korean progamers going 1-2, Mondragon beating Zeus 3-0, is the previous time non-koreans were competitive. (Of course, maps might have been a slight factor there. "Where can I find some more details about this event? ^ it's 815 btw  Mystery-Map Invitationalhttp://classic.battle.net/scevents/SC-MM-FAQ.html | ||
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