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On July 27 2007 11:03 DukE wrote:
the issue really here is, why did blizz fuck protoss over so badly with the overpriced shitty dragoons when they just as easily could have given us something better than goliaths
During BW beta, Blizzard didn't want the dragoons to simply overpower the zealot (pvp if I can recall). Also during that era, Terran had a difficult time with dragoon harass.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
2 DukE:
Stop bitching about dragoons. They are my favourite unit and surely deserve being. If you can't make them work, that's your problem.
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This isn't WC2 where each race has the same units, but different aesthetics, save one or two units. Each race is different, but almost perfectly equal. A goliath is not the Terran equivalent of the Protoss dragoon.
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Gols dont do well against zerg. Mutas Hydras> Gols
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On July 27 2007 13:52 flag wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2007 11:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:On July 27 2007 09:40 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 09:09 Pika Chu wrote:gol is medium, goon is large problem solved  Goliath is large On July 27 2007 09:34 Element)LoGiC wrote:
3) Goliaths have farther range which allows them stack attacks better than dragoons. Goliaths have the same ground range as upgraded goons. I'm going to spank you too. Gol has 5 ground range, goon has 6. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people
What are you, retarded? Goliaths have a range of 5.
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Goons are a bit faster than goliaths moving around, aren't they? Presuming they actually get your command and don't freeze.
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Norway28665 Posts
god theres so many stupid and wrong answers here
why do people answer without having a clue
I think everything has been corrected although I couldnt even make myself read through the thread. however I will quickly go through the facts
1: goliaths are large
2: there are 3 different unit sizes in brood war
one relates to how many units fit in a shuttle, one relates to how damage is dealt, one relates to how units fit through buildings
for example: 4 zealots fit into 1 shuttle, yet they are small in regards to damage
8 scvs fit into dropship, also small in regards to damage, however regarding buildings, zealots are capable of fitting through some cracks which scvs are incapable of fitting through. thus, the zealot is both bigger, smaller, and the same size as scvs. but how many units fit into shuttles or dropships has almost nothing to do with damage dealt; zealots are small and goliaths are large yet both fit 4 into a dropship or shuttle.
3 : reasons why goliaths do better than goons
this is a combination of instant fire, normal damage, and slightly faster shooting rate. that is, frankly, goliaths are only hardly better. after all, goons are actually used more than goliats against zerg.. however, they are significantly better against zerglings, because of normal damage, base damage of 12 (meaning they kill zerglings in 3 as opposed to 4 hits), and instant fire. goons waste a lot of shots, especially against units as weak as zerglings.
but seriously guys
if you're not certain about something, why would you answer questions regarding the subject? it makes no sense.
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Goliaths vs PVT sucks vs carriers, do you know why? Because its they don't all fire when you tell them to hold. You have to manually tell them to attack every shot, ugh.
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On July 27 2007 17:12 Sky101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2007 13:52 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 11:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:On July 27 2007 09:40 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 09:09 Pika Chu wrote:gol is medium, goon is large problem solved Goliath is large On July 27 2007 09:34 Element)LoGiC wrote:
3) Goliaths have farther range which allows them stack attacks better than dragoons. Goliaths have the same ground range as upgraded goons. I'm going to spank you too. Gol has 5 ground range, goon has 6. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people What are you, retarded? Goliaths have a range of 5.
In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people. Goliath have ground range of 6.
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On July 27 2007 18:13 flag wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2007 17:12 Sky101 wrote:On July 27 2007 13:52 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 11:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:On July 27 2007 09:40 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 09:09 Pika Chu wrote:gol is medium, goon is large problem solved Goliath is large On July 27 2007 09:34 Element)LoGiC wrote:
3) Goliaths have farther range which allows them stack attacks better than dragoons. Goliaths have the same ground range as upgraded goons. I'm going to spank you too. Gol has 5 ground range, goon has 6. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people What are you, retarded? Goliaths have a range of 5. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people. Goliath have ground range of 6.
HOW DO I FAIL SO HARD AFTER DRONE'S POST?
Excuse me while I tempban myself.
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I already stated in a patch they increased the goliath's ground range by 1, but never updated the site.
When I say check the facts I don't mean go to some out dated site, I mean test it in the game since that is where it counts. Simple test incase you can't figure it out. Take a Goliath and shoot a vulture. Now take the vulture and shoot the goliath, you'll notice the vulture has to move forward before it shoots even though its range is 5. So once again please check your facts before you attempt to correct someone.
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On July 27 2007 14:27 BluzMan wrote:
Their main weakness is the gas load on your economy needed to support them. You need:
1) Several facts. To come out with a reasonable number, it's 3-4. 300-400 gas.
2) Upgrades. Seriously, you're gonna face a lot of low-damage units, you need the armor upgrade. You also need to upgrade weapons because if zerg outpaces you here, 12x3 = 36 becomes 11x3=33 which is not sufficient to kill a zergling. Yes, 4 hits instead of 3, which is a gross decrease. So, at early game it's 250 extra gas.
3) Charon booster. You will most likely face mutaling (even though don't overrate gols vs lurkers, they do well, but are not invincible), so you will need air range. 100 gas.
4) Obviously, to upgrade all this stuff, you will need dual armories and a machine shop. Another 150.
C'mon, it's like 900 gas without making a SINGLE unit. Golies are nice vs zerg, the tech needed is not.
i agree with bluz
goons have 1 upgrade for ground to air and ground to ground range while goliaths only get air range.
goons can be made in the gateway after c core has been made while goliaths require barracks factory and armory.
every unit has advantages and disadvantages. some units have more benefits than others, yes, but no unit is useless. its simply a matter of covering your weaknesses and imposing your strengths.
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United States12235 Posts
On July 27 2007 19:09 5HITCOMBO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2007 18:13 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 17:12 Sky101 wrote:On July 27 2007 13:52 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 11:41 evanthebouncy! wrote:On July 27 2007 09:40 flag wrote:On July 27 2007 09:09 Pika Chu wrote:gol is medium, goon is large problem solved Goliath is large On July 27 2007 09:34 Element)LoGiC wrote:
3) Goliaths have farther range which allows them stack attacks better than dragoons. Goliaths have the same ground range as upgraded goons. I'm going to spank you too. Gol has 5 ground range, goon has 6. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people What are you, retarded? Goliaths have a range of 5. In the future please check your facts before attempting to correct people. Goliath have ground range of 6. HOW DO YOU FAIL SO HARD AFTER DRONE'S POST? Never post here again, please.
It's six. SIX. I explained this already in my post. They were originally 5 but in patch 1.08 the range was increased to 6.
Goliath:
- Increased ground attack range.
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On July 27 2007 09:40 ShabZzoY! wrote:
They dont have retarded AI
HAH!
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Norway28665 Posts
flag is correct, goliaths have a range of 6
I'm very close to giving everyone who gave wrong information in this thread a tempban.
in fact, I almost feel like I should spend some time looking through strategy forum threads if this is the standard. if you ask something starcraft related on these forums, the by far most knowledgeable starcraft forums on the internet, you should get a correct answer pretty quickly. not several wrong ones inducing a debate regarding which side is correct. if people give shitty and wrong responses in threads dealing with other issues, so be it.. that's not our field of expertise, people should be smart enough to ask other places if they're actually in serious doubt / need for help and not out to create a discussion.. but regarding factual brood war related information, there shouldn't be room for mistakes.
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United States12235 Posts
On July 27 2007 19:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
flag is correct, goliaths have a range of 6
I'm very close to giving everyone who gave wrong information in this thread a tempban.
in fact, I almost feel like I should spend some time looking through strategy forum threads if this is the standard. if you ask something starcraft related on these forums, the by far most knowledgeable starcraft forums on the internet, you should get a correct answer pretty quickly. not several wrong ones inducing a debate regarding which side is correct. if people give shitty and wrong responses in threads dealing with other issues, so be it.. that's not our field of expertise, people should be smart enough to ask other places if they're actually in serious doubt / need for help and not out to create a discussion.. but regarding factual brood war related information, there shouldn't be room for mistakes.
People should have heeded IntoTheWow's advice and stopped talking after I posted 
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Norway28665 Posts
then again i guess blizzard is a little at fault for having wrong information on their webpage =[
and yeah, the first posts in the thread were cluttered with so much misinformation that I didn't even bother reading your post, which was of course dead on the money.
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Liquid drone, you exactly said what i wanted to say...
But it seems like sc ppl are getting more and more arrogant, and hardly admites they're wrong.
Whatever. But please guys try not to be so sure of yourselves when stating facts... :[
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On July 27 2007 11:03 DukE wrote:
the issue really here is, why did blizz fuck protoss over so badly with the overpriced shitty dragoons when they just as easily could have given us something better than goliaths they didn't think things like projectile animations through, and they didn't think it through much in war3 either
goons do have one advantage in that they seem to be way better at capital antair, though this stopped mattering once mind control was added to the game. that +1 base armor is also a much bigger deal early game than it is by the time goliaths come out
someone really needs to bring this issue up when sc2 beta is out, though it's been mostly addressed with the addition of so many lasers
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9893/goliathne9.jpg)
