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On May 26 2020 01:40 Djabanete wrote:
That’s pretty far from being a representative game from its era.
This whole “players suck now” idea seems grounded in theory more than observation. Flash himself said that some players have gotten better, others worse.
Watch Snow vs Last on Sylphid, in the match where Snow 3:0’d Last in ASL8, and tell me if you think Snow looks rusty.
There were also more games then. And when you have many games for a decade, you tend to forget the bad ones and remember the spectacular moments
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On May 26 2020 01:40 Djabanete wrote:
That’s pretty far from being a representative game from its era.
This whole “players suck now” idea seems grounded in theory more than observation. Flash himself said that some players have gotten better, others worse.
Watch Snow vs Last on Sylphid, in the match where Snow 3:0’d Last in ASL8, and tell me if you think Snow looks rusty.
Please go back and watch some games from that era. Of course that game is an exception even for those times but in general the level of play mechanical-wise has declined at the korean top. If you do direct comparisons it gets jarring very quickly and shows it's not just "theory". Flash's "quote" is used all over the place and everytime it sounds different to fit the context of the conversation as well...
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On May 26 2020 05:25 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2020 01:40 Djabanete wrote:
That’s pretty far from being a representative game from its era.
This whole “players suck now” idea seems grounded in theory more than observation. Flash himself said that some players have gotten better, others worse.
Watch Snow vs Last on Sylphid, in the match where Snow 3:0’d Last in ASL8, and tell me if you think Snow looks rusty. Please go back and watch some games from that era. Of course that game is an exception even for those times but in general the level of play mechanical-wise has declined at the korean top. If you do direct comparisons it gets jarring very quickly and shows it's not just "theory". Flash's "quote" is used all over the place and everytime it sounds different to fit the context of the conversation as well...
To me it seems that players have gotten slightly worse at the "real time" part but much better at "strategy"
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IMO, players are so much better nowadays, even "mechanically" there are units much better to micro thanks to the custom keys, even for pros they can multitask better.
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Is there any evidence that practicing 8-12 hours a day is better for honing mechanics than, say, 6 hours a day? I get that some players might be worse mechanically than they were during the Kespa era if they're only practicing 2-3 hours daily while spending most of the day drinking soju and looking at titties (or worse, playing PUBG), but how much practice do you really need to stay in top physical shape?
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On May 26 2020 07:18 StarscreamG1 wrote:
IMO, players are so much better nowadays, even "mechanically" there are units much better to micro thanks to the custom keys, even for pros they can multitask better.
i think they would beat olden day players by using superior meta but their mechanics are probably a bit worse. Jaedong and Flash have both said they were basically stronger players in their progaming days.
Edit: Also, watch Jaedong 2009 WCG finals fpvod against Stork. His mechanics were something else back then.
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On May 26 2020 15:33 Anc13nt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2020 07:18 StarscreamG1 wrote:
IMO, players are so much better nowadays, even "mechanically" there are units much better to micro thanks to the custom keys, even for pros they can multitask better. i think they would beat olden day players by using superior meta but their mechanics are probably a bit worse. Jaedong and Flash have both said they were basically stronger players in their progaming days. Edit: Also, watch Jaedong 2009 WCG finals fpvod against Stork. His mechanics were something else back then.
flash has said numerously that he would beat his kespa self.
jd says his game sense is better but his fingers are slower and bisu says he was just simply better in his kespa days.
kinda makes sense because jd and bisu are more well known for purely dominating opponents mechanically whereas flash is known for his mind games/game sense etc (not that his mechanics are bad, just not the element of his game that defined him)
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On May 26 2020 16:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2020 15:33 Anc13nt wrote:On May 26 2020 07:18 StarscreamG1 wrote:
IMO, players are so much better nowadays, even "mechanically" there are units much better to micro thanks to the custom keys, even for pros they can multitask better. i think they would beat olden day players by using superior meta but their mechanics are probably a bit worse. Jaedong and Flash have both said they were basically stronger players in their progaming days. Edit: Also, watch Jaedong 2009 WCG finals fpvod against Stork. His mechanics were something else back then. flash has said numerously that he would beat his kespa self. jd says his game sense is better but his fingers are slower and bisu says he was just simply better in his kespa days. kinda makes sense because jd and bisu are more well known for purely dominating opponents mechanically whereas flash is known for his mind games/game sense etc (not that his mechanics are bad, just not the element of his game that defined him)
Flash had incredible mechanics except for his multitasking. Not that that was bad but it didn't quite match the insane level of his other skills. I believe Flash said he would beat his Kespa-self but if his Kespa-self had some time to adjust to the new meta/get on par with the current knowledge his Kespa-self would win... Can someone find the exact quote? I think it was in an interview...
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On May 26 2020 22:12 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2020 16:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:On May 26 2020 15:33 Anc13nt wrote:On May 26 2020 07:18 StarscreamG1 wrote:
IMO, players are so much better nowadays, even "mechanically" there are units much better to micro thanks to the custom keys, even for pros they can multitask better. i think they would beat olden day players by using superior meta but their mechanics are probably a bit worse. Jaedong and Flash have both said they were basically stronger players in their progaming days. Edit: Also, watch Jaedong 2009 WCG finals fpvod against Stork. His mechanics were something else back then. flash has said numerously that he would beat his kespa self. jd says his game sense is better but his fingers are slower and bisu says he was just simply better in his kespa days. kinda makes sense because jd and bisu are more well known for purely dominating opponents mechanically whereas flash is known for his mind games/game sense etc (not that his mechanics are bad, just not the element of his game that defined him) Flash had incredible mechanics except for his multitasking. Not that that was bad but it didn't quite match the insane level of his other skills. I believe Flash said he would beat his Kespa-self but if his Kespa-self had some time to adjust to the new meta/get on par with the current knowledge his Kespa-self would win... Can someone find the exact quote? I think it was in an interview...
This is also what I've read in threads, all second hand "interpretations" though.. it would be interesting to read the actual interview translation.
It's pretty obvious some are worse off vs kespa days (ie JD and Bisu). I think Flash is mixed. Might be even stronger in some stuff like TvT. And his last ASL championship was a masterpiece in TvP (both semis and finals).
I think his TvZ might actually be weaker -- even though he now has a plethora of improved gas/non-bio builds, he has regressed to being quite vulnerable to early aggression, something he was very prone to during his '08-'09 slump.
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I would say that that the overall level of mechanics is worse. Just compare muta micro and the marine micro counterplay and multitasking with kespa days. Three years ago, the level was obviously worse than kespa days. But the overall level is rising again. Perhaps it is simply a matter of surgery for RSI. In terms of game knowledge, they are better, but it's not like it is possible to lose game knowledge when they are the ones who are adding to game knowledge.
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On May 26 2020 11:06 reincremate wrote:
Is there any evidence that practicing 8-12 hours a day is better for honing mechanics than, say, 6 hours a day? I get that some players might be worse mechanically than they were during the Kespa era if they're only practicing 2-3 hours daily while spending most of the day drinking soju and looking at titties (or worse, playing PUBG), but how much practice do you really need to stay in top physical shape?
Soju and titties... I'm down for that after full 8 hour work practice.
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On May 26 2020 11:06 reincremate wrote:
Is there any evidence that practicing 8-12 hours a day is better for honing mechanics than, say, 6 hours a day? I get that some players might be worse mechanically than they were during the Kespa era if they're only practicing 2-3 hours daily while spending most of the day drinking soju and looking at titties (or worse, playing PUBG), but how much practice do you really need to stay in top physical shape?
I believe mechanics = muscle memory. By that logic, practicing as much possible (while making sure you're not getting injured) should improve your mechanics.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 27 2020 04:56 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2020 11:06 reincremate wrote:
Is there any evidence that practicing 8-12 hours a day is better for honing mechanics than, say, 6 hours a day? I get that some players might be worse mechanically than they were during the Kespa era if they're only practicing 2-3 hours daily while spending most of the day drinking soju and looking at titties (or worse, playing PUBG), but how much practice do you really need to stay in top physical shape? I believe mechanics = muscle memory. By that logic, practicing as much possible (while making sure you're not getting injured) should improve your mechanics.
I mean, I'm sure everyone agrees that practice is good overall, but there has to be a point where it's about maintenance for these players that have played the game for so long. For example, maybe someone only needs to practice 2 hours a day since they've practiced 8 hours a day for years and it's all ingrained subconsciously.
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On May 27 2020 05:02 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2020 04:56 niteReloaded wrote:On May 26 2020 11:06 reincremate wrote:
Is there any evidence that practicing 8-12 hours a day is better for honing mechanics than, say, 6 hours a day? I get that some players might be worse mechanically than they were during the Kespa era if they're only practicing 2-3 hours daily while spending most of the day drinking soju and looking at titties (or worse, playing PUBG), but how much practice do you really need to stay in top physical shape? I believe mechanics = muscle memory. By that logic, practicing as much possible (while making sure you're not getting injured) should improve your mechanics. I mean, I'm sure everyone agrees that practice is good overall, but there has to be a point where it's about maintenance for these players that have played the game for so long. For example, maybe someone only needs to practice 2 hours a day since they've practiced 8 hours a day for years and it's all ingrained subconsciously.
Fairly sure it's the same as with instruments or sports. If you practice hard (pro level) for years and take it down to 1/4 you will most certainly get quite a bit worse. However, it will come back relatively quick (compared to someone who was never at that level and is trying to get there) if you go back to your previous practicing regime.
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Soju and titties in moderation (and raising your kids) is obviously better than 12 hours of grinding per day, because at some point you'll start getting diminishing or no returns from practice. I'm just curious as to what amount of daily training is optimal for pros trying to stay in peak mechanical shape. Doesn't seem like there's been much sports psychology research for esports in general.
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flash and larva just did a long RvR series, not the greatest of games but plenty of banter + Show Spoiler +
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Sick! Thanks for the info.
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Best balance patch for the game!
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On May 28 2020 15:32 geod wrote:
Best balance patch for the game!
He may seem like a merciful God now, but once he gets his Zerg up to a higher level, he'll be smiting everyone like Old Testament Yahweh.
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On May 28 2020 01:29 ggsimida wrote:flash and larva just did a long RvR series, not the greatest of games but plenty of banter + Show Spoiler +
Any link to the VODs?
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EPT
