EPTFlash says he will choose random - Page 16
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7182 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1605 Posts
When will we see Flash vs Bisu RvR!?!?!? | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10569 Posts
On May 21 2020 01:46 EndingLife wrote: I think Flash will do well with the exception of ZvZ and ZvT vs a few certain players. When will we see Flash vs Bisu RvR!?!?!? FlaSh vs Bisu TvP, but it's random who get's what race  | ||
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prosatan
Romania9409 Posts
 )He thinks his protoss skills are improving ! | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina247 Posts
On April 30 2020 19:24 TornadoSteve wrote: I am not judging his skills, just his words He should perhaps be more careful about the statement he makes, especially with the number of viewers he gets every day. Please accept my apologies to have hurt your feelings with this comment about your boi! On April 30 2020 14:58 TornadoSteve wrote: Since Flash has made this statement, has he played 1 game with random so far ? Arm injury/army/last ASL/retirement/random How many shots does korean have before losing credibility ? Maybe you wanna keep making suggestions on how Flash should conduct himself? or maybe you want to keep attacking a man's credibility when he is not here to defend himself? Btw, not any man, but the one who build his reputation on beeing the best of the best, only through pure skill and hard work. It is very funny because I think YOU should be more careful about the statements you make, even if you have 0 viewers, you are a no one and no one cares about your stupidity because, after all, you are still a man, but you could turn into a rat at any moment. Yeye you can say I'm so furious because I'm such a fanboy, the truth is I fucking hate rat people and I think I have a keen eye for detecting them, And don't bother answering me, you already showed yourself in those two messages, what a man of your caliber have to say about me means literally 0 to a person like me Have a nice day Flash P vs Ssak T User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina247 Posts
In his PvP vs Free he already showed a build order that i havent seen in that match up ever before, so simple and so smart, oh and he rolled over Free with it but I guess that is "meh" for some poeple LOL!!! Look, another example,Flash Z vs Barracks T of him getting wins left and right with all 3 races versus ex progamers in long convincing games, so normal right? such a conventional feat... my god am I crazy?? who are these people? I, on the contrary, can't stop to marvel when I see what this man is capable of, he finds ways again and again to carry further and further away the fact that #1 of all time of all E-sports fall short to describe him | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On May 01 2020 01:25 TornadoSteve wrote: Quite the opposite in my opinion, this should lead to more safe openings which will lead to longer games. Don't know about that. If the other player wants to be safe, he has to delay his economy. Builds are already so optimized economically that if you waste money, delay, or deviate away from your B.O because of some non-existent threat that, against players who is at least equally proficient with the race you would just lose. Imagine playing 1 base protoss vs a random zerg because you can't forge FE because you haven't scouted out the other guy on a 4 player map. Yeah, the games will be a tad longer but it's just one side flow charting his way to a win. The "equally proficient part", though, is what's interesting. It's a different case for Flash to pick random nowadays vs him picking random 10 years ago. 10 years ago the guy would have no chance. It doesn't matter what B.O advantage he would have gotten. If he played random and actually wanted to win when the game was still big he would most likely cheese every game and the outcome of the game would be decided on the first 5 min. The reason why no one ever picked random pro play is because the fundamental they built up playing their main race is so strong and so ingrained from hours and hours of practice that they would just just flat out win vs the offracer as the better player. People here pointed out SaviOr vs GoRush as an example. Gorush is no pushover, but that map was a 61% TvZ map during the tail end of an era where Terran held all the advantages and SaviOr was just about the single most accomplished ZvT player to ever exist. GoRush worked the guy. It was embarrassing. But that was years ago. People got lives and whatnot now and I doubt none of these guys are grinding the game 12 hours a day anymore. If anyone could offrace now, Flash would be the guy. TLDR games will be unpredictable and str8 clown-fiestas because now everybody is bad. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10884 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
On May 25 2020 11:19 O-ops wrote: Don't know about that. If the other player wants to be safe, he has to delay his economy. Builds are already so optimized economically that if you waste money, delay, or deviate away from your B.O because of some non-existent threat that, against players who is at least equally proficient with the race you would just lose. Imagine playing 1 base protoss vs a random zerg because you can't forge FE because you haven't scouted out the other guy on a 4 player map. Yeah, the games will be a tad longer but it's just one side flow charting his way to a win. The "equally proficient part", though, is what's interesting. It's a different case for Flash to pick random nowadays vs him picking random 10 years ago. 10 years ago the guy would have no chance. It doesn't matter what B.O advantage he would have gotten. If he played random and actually wanted to win when the game was still big he would most likely cheese every game and the outcome of the game would be decided on the first 5 min. The reason why no one ever picked random pro play is because the fundamental they built up playing their main race is so strong and so ingrained from hours and hours of practice that they would just just flat out win vs the offracer as the better player. People here pointed out SaviOr vs GoRush as an example. Gorush is no pushover, but that map was a 61% TvZ map during the tail end of an era where Terran held all the advantages and SaviOr was just about the single most accomplished ZvT player to ever exist. GoRush worked the guy. It was embarrassing. But that was years ago. People got lives and whatnot now and I doubt none of these guys are grinding the game 12 hours a day anymore. If anyone could offrace now, Flash would be the guy. TLDR games will be unpredictable and str8 clown-fiestas because now everybody is bad. pretty funny way of looking at things when flash contradicts your last paragraph flash (and a lot of other pros for that matter) have repeatedly said on streams that their knowledge of the game has gotten better even compared to the kespa era. bisu is the only notable one off the top of my head who straight up thinks hes worse than his kespa self. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9409 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On May 25 2020 16:18 evilfatsh1t wrote: pretty funny way of looking at things when flash contradicts your last paragraph flash (and a lot of other pros for that matter) have repeatedly said on streams that their knowledge of the game has gotten better even compared to the kespa era. bisu is the only notable one off the top of my head who straight up thinks hes worse than his kespa self. Oh no, as far as game knowledge goes, I don't disagree. I don't think the rate of advancement on the theory side of the game is anywhere near as fast as it was back then, but it doesn't regressed. These guys have has years now to just sit back and think about the game. I'll be genuinely surprised if they don't think they got smarter about the game than they did back then. That said, the play quality in the games these guys are streaming now are not even remotely close to the quality of the games we all know them for. Fast response time, crisp timings, clean macro and micro, all these things they acquired and maintained years back by literally not having a life outside practicing. You pick a random fpvod of a pro back when the proscene still exists and i guarantee you outside of theory everything is way ahead of whatever jaedong/flash/bisu/whoever is putting out right now. If you haven't yet, you should watch Nal_ra's Old boy series. One of the best protoss to ever played during his heyday, he retired '08 and became a commentator for the main broadcasters of the game. In 2010 he tried to qualify for an OSL again, and the show documents the road leading up to the qualification tournament. Lo and behold the man was getting absolutely scraped the entire show by random players you never have even heard off. I'm pretty sure in one episode they pulled out a kid that was prepping for his Courage gauntlet (so the guy wasn't even a pro yet) and he lost to him too. I'm sure Nal_ra got smarter about the game, but the pro scene had pushed the burden of execution so insanely high in this game that if you don't have the hands and the muscle memory to just do stuff you have no chance, doesn't matter how knowledgeable you are. Nowdays though, execution barrier is markedly lower, so it's kinda hard to tell what works and what doesn't. People lose sairs randomly. People run into mines randomly. People losing unnecessary units to lurkers. People's responses vs common harasses are just nowhere as sharp as before. You could tell it's humans playing now instead of cyborgs that roamed the top flight starcraft in the old days. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1143 Posts
Also, hoping to see more of Flash zvt in here | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1143 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On May 26 2020 00:22 TornadoSteve wrote: I have a bad memory, but it seems to me that the BW level nowadays is MILES AHEAD compared to chooseyourERA. I tried to watch a few old replays to help me to understand those who claims that the good old days were more skilled than now... didnt work. In fact, it conviced me even more that the best BW is right now. So i must look at the wrong replays/vods , so please post some vods guys, i would love to be wrong. On another thread if you prefer It highly depends on what you watch tbh. The idea that BW today is so much worse outside of theory is nostalgia at its finest. There are games in the past that get matched by few nowadays and vice versa. The only point I can agree on is that reaction times were faster back then in general, but Flash himself came out and said a while back (several years ago) something along the lines of everyone's macro is on the same level so it's all about the mind games and such. Of course, you can interrupt that statement either way, but those who continued to play and improve their macro are much better players both macro-wise and theory-wise than they were back then. This topic keeps coming up every once in a while and there's no answer that will perfectly satisfy either side imo. I'm personally thankful that SSL and ASL now kept the flaming going and that there are players who are taking this seriously and have practiced hard in the past (Last, Flash, Jaedong, hero etc...). Last not streaming for weeks during his KSL1 run for example. It's an interesting era we will live in. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On May 26 2020 00:22 TornadoSteve wrote: I have a bad memory, but it seems to me that the BW level nowadays is MILES AHEAD compared to chooseyourERA. I tried to watch a few old replays to help me to understand those who claims that the good old days were more skilled than now... didnt work. In fact, it conviced me even more that the best BW is right now. So i must look at the wrong replays/vods , so please post some vods guys, i would love to be wrong. On another thread if you prefer This is what happens when you're just on point lol. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
This whole “players suck now” idea seems grounded in theory more than observation. Flash himself said that some players have gotten better, others worse. Watch Snow vs Last on Sylphid, in the match where Snow 3:0’d Last in ASL8, and tell me if you think Snow looks rusty. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10884 Posts
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