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StarCraft v1.18a Patch Notes; Preparation for SC:R - Page 17

Forum Index > BW General
519 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 26 Next All
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
March 28 2017 19:53 GMT
#321
On March 29 2017 04:52 beg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 04:24 Sr18 wrote:
I just fired up a dota2 bot game. Zero delay. Everything responded instantly. Puck's phase shift for instance, happened on screen before I even managed to fully press the hotkey for it. If there is a build in delay of several hundred ms, it's definitely not there in a lobby I hosted. I don't have time to test in a regular match. The bot game felt normal though, so I doubt there is much of a delay otherwise (other than ping, which is 0 for a locally hosted game and between 20-50 ms in a normal match).

I'm downloading Dota2, SC2 and HotS to get a definite answer. Will probably post results in 24 hours.

sounds good, looking forward to it ^^
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
ted.
Profile Joined October 2008
United States81 Posts
March 28 2017 19:56 GMT
#322
On March 29 2017 04:44 Lorch wrote:
Preparation != Patch is live

You can log onto US East/West right now if you don't believe me. The patch will come out on Thursday for all regions.


Not working for me?

The game tries to install "1.16.0" and then it gets rejected because it says I already have "1.16.1"

Is patch up and working for anyone else?
The best way to predict your future is to create it
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1837 Posts
March 28 2017 20:00 GMT
#323
On March 29 2017 04:56 ted. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 04:44 Lorch wrote:
Preparation != Patch is live

You can log onto US East/West right now if you don't believe me. The patch will come out on Thursday for all regions.


Not working for me?

The game tries to install "1.16.0" and then it gets rejected because it says I already have "1.16.1"

Is patch up and working for anyone else?


This has been an issue for a while. I had to uninstall and reinstall a fresh copy to be able to get on Battle.Net
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
March 28 2017 20:18 GMT
#324
On March 29 2017 04:03 Philoctetes wrote:
It is not a matter of updating. LAN latency for SC is also not the same as latency in single player, and neither is instantanious, as the game isn't forced to update prematurely just because it got an input/command.

BW and SC2 use the same amount of bandwith. A game like HoN uses about 10x as much. I played SC with a 28.8 baud modem. The netcode was written for that. Right now, I am on 1gbit fibreglass. Yet Blizzard seems to be forcing me to play with delay, because a player might be laggy and their netcode is too lazy to handle it smartly.


Just like the SC2 engine is fundamentally flawed to facilitate a crisp microable RTS, so their SC2 netcode has no regard for what type of game it is going to facilitate. Why? Because most of their player base doesn't seem to care. They never had as a design criteria for their netcode: "Ok guys. We need to find multiple tricks to keep this inbuild delay as low as possible, and come up with some intricate code for it." No. They just put in a delay, routed peer to peer, and that's that.

It is the same way as their game engine fundamentally doesn't alllow proper micro, because what kind of control the game engine would lead to was never a consideration in the minds or discussions of those that wrote the code at that time.


I am now very irate. I don't know how I shall sleep. I am only rage now. Thank you for showing me the light.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
ted.
Profile Joined October 2008
United States81 Posts
March 28 2017 20:19 GMT
#325
Ok, I reinstalled, it's working.

I logged onto east, but patch 1.18 is not live yet.
The best way to predict your future is to create it
Philoctetes
Profile Joined March 2017
Netherlands77 Posts
March 28 2017 20:21 GMT
#326
On March 29 2017 05:18 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 04:03 Philoctetes wrote:
It is not a matter of updating. LAN latency for SC is also not the same as latency in single player, and neither is instantanious, as the game isn't forced to update prematurely just because it got an input/command.

BW and SC2 use the same amount of bandwith. A game like HoN uses about 10x as much. I played SC with a 28.8 baud modem. The netcode was written for that. Right now, I am on 1gbit fibreglass. Yet Blizzard seems to be forcing me to play with delay, because a player might be laggy and their netcode is too lazy to handle it smartly.


Just like the SC2 engine is fundamentally flawed to facilitate a crisp microable RTS, so their SC2 netcode has no regard for what type of game it is going to facilitate. Why? Because most of their player base doesn't seem to care. They never had as a design criteria for their netcode: "Ok guys. We need to find multiple tricks to keep this inbuild delay as low as possible, and come up with some intricate code for it." No. They just put in a delay, routed peer to peer, and that's that.

It is the same way as their game engine fundamentally doesn't alllow proper micro, because what kind of control the game engine would lead to was never a consideration in the minds or discussions of those that wrote the code at that time.


I am now very irate. I don't know how I shall sleep. I am only rage now. Thank you for showing me the light.



Put some more effort in your posts.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
March 28 2017 20:59 GMT
#327
On March 29 2017 05:19 ted. wrote:
Ok, I reinstalled, it's working.

I logged onto east, but patch 1.18 is not live yet.


The date for the patch is 3/30 so this is expected.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
March 28 2017 22:15 GMT
#328
Could someone please summarise when HD is expected or is it this patch? Do we need to buy HD version?
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
March 28 2017 22:19 GMT
#329
On March 29 2017 07:15 Shield wrote:
Could someone please summarise when HD is expected or is it this patch? Do we need to buy HD version?

Only thing im hoping for is they atleast add in new resolution
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Nagisama
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada4481 Posts
March 28 2017 22:48 GMT
#330
On March 29 2017 07:15 Shield wrote:
Could someone please summarise when HD is expected or is it this patch? Do we need to buy HD version?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/520461-starcraft-remastered-to-be-released-summer-2017 ?
Calendar"Everyone who has accomplished more than you has no life; Everyone who has accomplished less than you is a noob." | Elem: "nagi is actually really smart"
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 23:00:46
March 28 2017 22:52 GMT
#331
On March 29 2017 00:24 beg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2017 23:53 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 23:34 beg wrote:
On March 28 2017 22:13 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 19:44 Philoctetes wrote:
On March 28 2017 14:40 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 08:28 Philoctetes wrote:
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote:
Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.



There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.

Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2.
I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.

Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.



Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.

So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW.
People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.

People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.

But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'.
Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.

There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.


For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.



SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.

SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.

What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.

Yes, it does have delay.
Are you playing Dota2 regularly? Then you probably got used to the delay. Try playing HotS for a few weeks and then go back to Dota2. You will become aware of the forced delay

Both SC2 and Dota2 have forced delay.

Some evidence for SC2: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/65049/how-long-is-starcraft-2s-typical-input-delay-compared-to-other-competitive-game

Evidence for Dota2: http://dev.dota2.com/archive/index.php/t-39845.html

Note, I have tested the delay in both games about 2 years ago. I'm not just relying on anecdotal evidence.

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 00:00 Miragee wrote:
I think people are talking about this video:

I wasn't talking about this video, but from my experience. The delay in SC2 and Dota2 is pretty obvious, imho.

Dota 2 does not have a "forced delay", that is a myth.
Graphics
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
March 28 2017 22:56 GMT
#332
On March 26 2017 14:45 Morbidius wrote:
Keybinds fuck yeah. I wonder how the people who were saying that ''pressing bad keybinds is a skill'' feel now that regular BW has it.


Sad.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
beg
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
991 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 23:07:59
March 28 2017 23:07 GMT
#333
On March 29 2017 07:52 Nixer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 00:24 beg wrote:
On March 28 2017 23:53 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 23:34 beg wrote:
On March 28 2017 22:13 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 19:44 Philoctetes wrote:
On March 28 2017 14:40 lestye wrote:
On March 28 2017 08:28 Philoctetes wrote:
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote:
Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.



There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.

Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2.
I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.

Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.



Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.

So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW.
People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.

People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.

But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'.
Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.

There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.


For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.



SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.

SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.

What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.

Yes, it does have delay.
Are you playing Dota2 regularly? Then you probably got used to the delay. Try playing HotS for a few weeks and then go back to Dota2. You will become aware of the forced delay

Both SC2 and Dota2 have forced delay.

Some evidence for SC2: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/65049/how-long-is-starcraft-2s-typical-input-delay-compared-to-other-competitive-game

Evidence for Dota2: http://dev.dota2.com/archive/index.php/t-39845.html

Note, I have tested the delay in both games about 2 years ago. I'm not just relying on anecdotal evidence.

On March 29 2017 00:00 Miragee wrote:
I think people are talking about this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByD29uiJYjc

I wasn't talking about this video, but from my experience. The delay in SC2 and Dota2 is pretty obvious, imho.

Dota 2 does not have a "forced delay", that is a myth.

We'll see. My Dota2 download has finished already ... Waiting for HotS and SC2 download to finish

Meanwhile, I'm gonna play some games of Dota2. Great game it is!

I'll post my results tomorrow.
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 23:28:55
March 28 2017 23:24 GMT
#334
The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.

I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.

Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
Graphics
beg
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
991 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 23:43:03
March 28 2017 23:38 GMT
#335
On March 29 2017 08:24 Nixer wrote:
The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.

I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.

Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.

Not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think I have an idea what you mean.

Did you ever play Quake 3? When you would shoot your gun, you wouldn't immediately see the shot until the server received your data and confirmed it back to the client. So I guess that's what you're saying, right?

This might be true, sure. I'll do experiments with Dota2, SC2 and HotS. Maybe that will help to clear it up. I'm expecting SC2 to have an artificial delay of around 200ms. Let's see how the other games compare

If what you say is true, I'll expect a delay of around 100ms in Dota with my 40 ms ping.
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1837 Posts
March 28 2017 23:40 GMT
#336
BTW, the work Blizz today gave us Brood War USA-1 back, which is awesome

Also, I have four maps show up in my game list like this: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I just did a fresh install and these four maps (Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker, Andromeda, Jade) are nowhere to be found in my maps folder. I can't imagine Blizzard using the iCCup versions of maps if they were to add them, so I feel like either 1. ShieldBattery is affecting this somehow (tec would know the answer to that) or 2. BW keeps your most recent maps in another location, even during a complete reinstall. In any event, I'd be curious to hear if anyone else sees anything like this
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9499 Posts
March 29 2017 00:01 GMT
#337
On March 29 2017 08:40 GoShox wrote:
BTW, the work Blizz today gave us Brood War USA-1 back, which is awesome

Also, I have four maps show up in my game list like this: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I just did a fresh install and these four maps (Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker, Andromeda, Jade) are nowhere to be found in my maps folder. I can't imagine Blizzard using the iCCup versions of maps if they were to add them, so I feel like either 1. ShieldBattery is affecting this somehow (tec would know the answer to that) or 2. BW keeps your most recent maps in another location, even during a complete reinstall. In any event, I'd be curious to hear if anyone else sees anything like this

Those are from ShieldBattery.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
Moonsalt
Profile Joined May 2011
267 Posts
March 29 2017 00:51 GMT
#338
Not sure how I feel about keybinds costumization.. one of the biggest parts about BW was that it was very hard mechanically. I hope they keep it that way....
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
March 29 2017 01:31 GMT
#339
On March 29 2017 09:51 Moonsalt wrote:
Not sure how I feel about keybinds costumization.. one of the biggest parts about BW was that it was very hard mechanically. I hope they keep it that way....

Pylons and overlords give you an excuse to bind to 890
ShibalShekki
Profile Joined March 2017
United States1 Post
March 29 2017 02:54 GMT
#340
OMG can't wait? Are people running Broodwar fine on windows 10? I have these black borders and can't get rid of them
[image loading]

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