In preparation for StarCraft: Remastered, SC:BW will be receiving its first official patch since January 21, 2009—almost 8 years ago. This patch mostly contains bug fixes and added functionality, with only 2 changes to unit bugs.
These changes should have little or no effect on gameplays, since SC:R will allegedly be compatible with BW 1.16.
Patch Will Happen 3/30 US Time. More details soon?
StarCraft v1.18a Patch Notes
StarCraft and Brood War will now be completely FREE.
Specific Changes & Improvements * Please “Run as Admin” during patching; it is required by modern operating systems and your first client run will migrate saves to avoid issues from Windows system admin changes
Added windowed fullscreen or windowed mode; use Alt+Enter to switch between
Added UTF-8 support
Added Keybind options
Added cursor clamping in game while windowed; unclamped in menus
Added Popular Maps to streamline finding games or game types
Added options to display actions per minute
Added Observer mode
Added opponent information when joining a game lobby
Added autosaving for replays
Added in game timer option
Added UPnP support
Improved gameplay responsiveness during multiplayer by increasing turn rate to match LAN speeds over Battle.net
Improved UI layout in Battle.net sections
Improved behavior of available lobbies within the Join game section
Improved compatibility with Windows 7, 8.1, and 10
Improved anticheat
Improved installation and patching performance
Native support for Fish
Bug Fixes
Fixed palette issues to correct rainbow water, 80s Kerrigan, and other graphic glitches
Fixed problems with LAN game discovery
Fixed IME support and other text artifacts in Battle.net menus
LAN and Legacy Battle.net fixes
Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size
Dragoons will not freeze and require a Stop order before accepting new orders
Known Issues
Mac is not supported this patch, but is in progress
The profile section is currently unavailable
With Blizzard keen to improve BW functionality and play experience, what other features, add-ons, or bugs do you think Blizzard should add to the game?
Key binding options?! That could screw up the balance at the highest level some what, but I don't care, it means I might be able to enjoy playing again! PogChamp
On March 26 2017 14:39 Ribbon wrote: What does uPnP support mean? Would this affect hosting games?
yea it should fix those issues that required people to fuck with their router settings to play online
"One solution for NAT traversal, called the Internet Gateway Device Protocol (IGD Protocol), is implemented via UPnP. Many routers and firewalls expose themselves as Internet Gateway Devices, allowing any local UPnP control point to perform a variety of actions, including retrieving the external IP address of the device, enumerate existing port mappings, and add or remove port mappings. By adding a port mapping, a UPnP controller behind the IGD can enable traversal of the IGD from an external address to an internal client."
On March 26 2017 14:37 lestye wrote: How are they just gonna skip 1.17?
Same as Windows 9. They do this to emphasise how huge the changes are.
So I guess this is goodbye to ICCUP? Smart of them to include fish, but it seems like iccup will be a thing of the past. Upnp support is great. Will feel really strange to play on official b.net servers, let's hope their anti-hack is actually any good.
It honestly feels like they actually read the rumour threads and listened to what fans wanted. Can't believe this is something blizz is doing in 2017.
On March 26 2017 14:47 peanuts wrote: This is going to open up the game to so many new players, myself included. So hype to dust off the macro and finally learn how to play!
On March 26 2017 14:47 peanuts wrote: This is going to open up the game to so many new players, myself included. So hype to dust off the macro and finally learn how to play!
True, although I think stuff like wall-ins will still be a big issue for getting new players into the game. At least that's what I'm worrying about the most when I'm going to return to the game after many years of not playing. But custom keybinds is a super good thing!
Scroll down to the side-by-side scrollbar thing. Looks like the remaster is widescreen. This is probably the change with the biggest impact on gameplay, but I'm actually happy about it. No reason to stick to 4:3 imo.
i wonder if they fix that buggy ramp (where units can get stuck) and also the keyboard input loss bug. i wonder if anyone in this thread know what i am talking about
Scroll down to the side-by-side scrollbar thing. Looks like the remaster is widescreen. This is probably the change with the biggest impact on gameplay, but I'm actually happy about it. No reason to stick to 4:3 imo.
You can play in either 4:3 or widescreen and switch between both with a press of a button
On March 26 2017 14:47 peanuts wrote: This is going to open up the game to so many new players, myself included. So hype to dust off the macro and finally learn how to play!
What kept you before? OS compatibility?
That kept me from playing it more recently, with a monitor size upgrade i dont enjoy the scvs being as big as my phone and windows mode is tiny honestly.
Hopefully they put this in the Blizzard launcher anyway
Scroll down to the side-by-side scrollbar thing. Looks like the remaster is widescreen. This is probably the change with the biggest impact on gameplay, but I'm actually happy about it. No reason to stick to 4:3 imo.
You can play in either 4:3 or widescreen and switch between both with a press of a button
The unit to screen ratio will remain the same
So since you're using more of the screen in widescreen, you can see more units. I think that's something a lot of people wanted to avoid.
"Happily, those two bugs will be fixed in Remastered. Some bugs have become ‘features’ over the years, but we found everyone we talked to thought those were good fixes."
So, stop complaining about "balance". These were unintentional glitches.
Scroll down to the side-by-side scrollbar thing. Looks like the remaster is widescreen. This is probably the change with the biggest impact on gameplay, but I'm actually happy about it. No reason to stick to 4:3 imo.
You can play in either 4:3 or widescreen and switch between both with a press of a button
The unit to screen ratio will remain the same
So since you're using more of the screen in widescreen, you can see more units. I think that's something a lot of people wanted to avoid.
Maybe in (offline) tournaments, the organizers will enforce a strict 4:3 only rule.
On March 26 2017 14:45 Morbidius wrote: Keybinds fuck yeah. I wonder how the people who were saying that ''pressing bad keybinds is a skill'' feel now that regular BW has it.
Yeah but suffering only makes the heart grow fonder, old skool design choices like no multi building section and 12 unit cap selection is the kind of abuse people love to earn, dark souls.
While its a rather 50/50 topic, I'm rather glad they added the keybinding support. Been playing a bit too much SC2 nowadays and am finding the keybinds more comfortable.
On March 23 2017 00:44 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Dear Santa, I wish 3 things for my BW: 1. proper window-fullscreen mode (like in sc2) to alt-tab instantly without all my colors go to shit. 2. proper network handling so anyone could create and join games and no noobs could set "extra high latency" and ask me to do the same too after that (LOL). 3. ladder auto matchmaking (but not bnet2.0).
On March 26 2017 16:08 avilo wrote: Will the new 1.18 patch make it easier to finally stream Brood War?
I am sure that you will be able to stream the remastered version with OBS quite easily. I mean in fact BW 1.16.1 is already easily streamable with OBS, once you set up everything to be fair. And with mcaLauncher you only have to type in your twitch stream key and get stream on the fly with the launcher only. Broodwar is very easy to stream and it will only get easier.
On March 26 2017 16:08 avilo wrote: Will the new 1.18 patch make it easier to finally stream Brood War?
I am sure that you will be able to stream the remastered version with OBS quite easily. I mean in fact BW 1.16.1 is already easily streamable with OBS, once you set up everything to be fair. And with mcaLauncher you only have to type in your twitch stream key and get stream on the fly with the launcher only. Broodwar is very easy to stream and it will only get easier.
i never got it to work on mcalauncher, and needed a few other unknown programs to make it work with OBS. So it isn't that easy
On March 26 2017 14:22 lichter wrote: In preparation for StarCraft: Remastered, SC:BW will be receiving its first official patch since January 21, 2009—almost 8 years ago.
Isn't this meant to be over 8 years a go now? :D Or was this written before hand!
On March 26 2017 15:16 Probemicro wrote: i wonder if they fix that buggy ramp (where units can get stuck) and also the keyboard input loss bug. i wonder if anyone in this thread know what i am talking about
as a terribly bad Brood war noob, I thought it was just myself, but then i realised i was missing macro cycles, and i couldn't click with my mouse AND macro/put keyboard commands aswell! I also found switching control groups to be buggy if i was spamming them too fast Am I the only one? :o
Since BW isn't part of the Blizz launcher, do I have to manually download the new patch and apply it? And why does the launcher show me the option to buy D2, WC3 etc. even though I have them unlocked on my Bnet profile?
On March 26 2017 18:42 CruelZeratul wrote: Since BW isn't part of the Blizz launcher, do I have to manually download the new patch and apply it? And why does the launcher show me the option to buy D2, WC3 etc. even though I have them unlocked on my Bnet profile?
No, you just try and log into battle.net and it should make you download the recent patch.
And ur 2nd question, those games arent integrated into the launcher. so it doesnt recognize you have them
I am curious about this Native Fish support, to what extend is it gonna support Fish? Is it just the server added to the gateway list (that would be a massive troll) or does it mean that the ladder is incorporated in the new battlenet and I won't have to use a fucking launcher to play it?
Does 3/30 US Time mean March 30th or 3:30 am/pm haha. Very excited about the ability to change keybinds, probably going to switch to Sc2 like keybinds to make the transition less harsh.
On March 26 2017 18:23 kogeT wrote: The valk fix will only affect mass wraith scenario in late TvT. (+ 4v4 and ums games)
It also heavily affects TvZ mech. Like massively? You now will be able to go a ton of valks without needing to bank up irradiate versus mass mutalisks.
Unless i'm wrong and the AI is still going to be buggy as hell lol.
On March 26 2017 18:23 kogeT wrote: The valk fix will only affect mass wraith scenario in late TvT. (+ 4v4 and ums games)
It also heavily affects TvZ mech. Like massively? You now will be able to go a ton of valks without needing to bank up irradiate versus mass mutalisks.
Unless i'm wrong and the AI is still going to be buggy as hell lol.
There's one huge issue with going mass valks with mech vs zerg (or bio even) and that's once the air is dead the valks lose their utility and they take a bunch fo supply. Valks are good to mix in, but it's always best to get vessels in the long term I think.
I'm curious as to what they are going to do with the spectator settings, would they change it so the casters can have more information in the match or are they going to keep it the same?
On March 26 2017 19:32 Master[3S] wrote: SC:BW needs: 1) the button "search" 2) ladder
and that will be great!
There is already ladder implemented in broodwar. It's just that people have preferred iCCup or Fish becouse of the LAN latency. When people go back to battle.net the ladder button in game lobby will propably work again.
On March 26 2017 20:10 Kerotan wrote: Anyone notice the QR code on the Terran's dude head? -edit
This lovely chap. I tried scanning it but the contrast between his head and the code might not be great enough.
I tried to do it on my phone but the colors are fucked up as you said , so I did it on my Nintendo 3DS , and it worked , it just takes you to Starcraft.com......but we are already on starcraft.com !!!
I really wanna hope they fixed Korean hangul fonts so I don't need to change my local, my entire Windows language to Korean to see them properly on Fish.
Would it change the game too significantly if they differentiated between spider mine death and detonation? As more of a viewer than a player, I think this would be very helpful for viewers.To be clear, if you destroy a mine, it dies in an explosion that does no damage and this can be confusing to know if a mine detonated properly or not.
With the added key binding support and fixes for Win7-10, I can actually start playing some 1v1s on a my bronze level. Where can I do this? The only active server is korean, with the language I don't understand as well as probably no noob level players. Any ideas?
On March 26 2017 21:33 outscar wrote: I really wanna hope they fixed Korean hangul fonts so I don't need to change my local, my entire Windows language to Korean to see them properly on Fish.
Patchnotes include UTF-8 support, so hopefully that means no more messed up characters.
What do we feel about keybind options? I think this will mess with balance. Every race is basically forced to change to easier choices now, mastering the hotkeys is a huge part of brood war.
Now you can rebind patrol aswell, making it much easier to harass with vultures etc.
Although I feel bad for the probe hotkey, not sure how I feel about this
These changes should have little or no effect on gameplays, since SC:R will allegedly be compatible with BW 1.16.
god, I hope this means replays will be compatible?
Yes, SC:R is essentially just a reskin of the game. It runs on the same engine - you can switch between HD and standard definition on the fly. It should be possible to watch any 1.16 replay in SC:R, as I understand it. Exciting news!
- Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size does this mean other units that have this problem will work too? or just walks? (swarm/dweb/etc don't work either when unit limit is reached)
- Dragoons will not freeze and require a Stop order before accepting new orders does this mean it's fixed for other units too?
I guess they didn't do much about the horrible lag, since it's still p2p?
Maybe Valk fix will help BCs return to TvT glory, since the Wraith counter unit will not bug out and do nothing, so you can throw a few of them with BCs worry free.
I'm curious, was the sprite limit that much of a factor in 1v1? I definitely ran into it in team games or UMS, but I didn't know if it could also be reached in 1v1.
On March 26 2017 22:54 Kare wrote: What do we feel about keybind options? I think this will mess with balance. Every race is basically forced to change to easier choices now, mastering the hotkeys is a huge part of brood war.
Now you can rebind patrol aswell, making it much easier to harass with vultures etc.
Although I feel bad for the probe hotkey, not sure how I feel about this
While I get the temptation to be nostalgic and wary of change, I honestly don't think the keybinding is that significant. It's nice quality of life. While in SC2 I rebinded mutas to m to keep muscle memory consistent, if people don't want to, I don't think that's a problem. If it is one, it's a very small one.
On March 26 2017 18:23 kogeT wrote: The valk fix will only affect mass wraith scenario in late TvT. (+ 4v4 and ums games)
It also heavily affects TvZ mech. Like massively? You now will be able to go a ton of valks without needing to bank up irradiate versus mass mutalisks.
Unless i'm wrong and the AI is still going to be buggy as hell lol.
There's one huge issue with going mass valks with mech vs zerg (or bio even) and that's once the air is dead the valks lose their utility and they take a bunch fo supply. Valks are good to mix in, but it's always best to get vessels in the long term I think.
The thing is, there is always air units for zerg. They are called overlords. If they are gone as well then sure, the valks won't have a use then. However, that wouldn't matter since the zerg wouldn't be able to produce ground units anyways...
I have an account on BW I've owned for a while. I read that, "Stilwell also stated that veteran StarCraft players will be able to “permanently link legacy accounts to your modern account” for online play."
By "modern account" do they mean our battle.net accounts? I want to keep the name I have on OG BW and transfer it to the updated version of the game. Thanks!
ONE serious balance suggestion for the 1.18 patch, if I may:
As I was watching today's "I <3 StarCraft" The Legend BO3 match between Flash and Stork on Outsider. Stork dropped 2 dragoons with +2 attack upgrade (both 0 kills as the observer clicks to check both) at 9 o'clock to shoot down mining SCVs from other side of the mineral line, which was defended by 1 vulture. 20 seconds later when the observer re-checked, those 2 dragoons had 4 kills combined (2 kills each), which means 1 vulture + 3 scv in 20 seconds.
Link to the video (watch on youtube, timestamp 2h47m05s):
Directly afterwards Flash drops 2 vultures with same attack upgrade in one of Storks's bases at 6 o'clock. Within 6 seconds those 2 vultures killed exactly 6 probes, while Stork's dragoons were able to kill just only 4 units within 20 seconds (yes, dragoons do half damage to smaller units. but if 2 vultures do 6 kills in 6 seconds, can't dragons do at least 6 kills in 3 times longer duration of 20 seconds?).
To get to the point, as we all know, SCVs have 60 hp while probes and drones have 40 hp. It takes whole 7 mutalisks to 1-shot an SCV but probe and drone need just 5 mutalisks. This difference is also huge and pretty unfair. Bringing SCV health to 40 hp would make it very fair, especially as it can be repaired to 100% in few seconds. Or 45 hp max (still 5 mutalisk to 1-shot it). 60 is just waay over the top as long as they can be repaired.
Some say it's because SCVs don't have regeneration like probes or drones. Still, they have direct manual healing(repair) available at any time, which is great, especially when doing bunker/scv rushes vs P and Z. Is 60 hp really necessary given these few examples? Probes and drones are still killed by vultures, marines, mutas withing 2 seconds even with their "regen". So why not make them all at least similar.
On March 27 2017 02:06 zaMNal wrote: ONE serious balance suggestion for the 1.18 patch, if I may:
As I was watching today's "I <3 StarCraft" The Legend BO3 match between Flash and Stork on Outsider. Stork dropped 2 dragoons with +2 attack upgrade (both 0 kills as the observer clicks to check both) at 9 o'clock to shoot down mining SCVs from other side of the mineral line, which was defended by 1 vulture. 20 seconds later when the observer re-checked, those 2 dragoons had 4 kills combined (2 kills each), which means 1 vulture + 3 scv in 20 seconds.
Link to the video (watch on youtube, timestamp 2h47m05s):
Directly afterwards Flash drops 2 vultures with same attack upgrade in one of Storks's bases at 6 o'clock. Within 6 seconds those 2 vultures killed exactly 6 probes, while Stork's dragoons were able to kill just only 4 units within 20 seconds (yes, dragoons do half damage to smaller units. but if 2 vultures do 6 kill in 6 seconds, can't dragons do at least 6 kill in 3 times longer duration of 20 seconds?).
To get to the point, as we all know, SCVs have 60 hp while probes and drones have 40 hp. It takes whole 7 mutalisks to 1-shot an SCV but probe and drone need just 5 mutalisks. This difference is also huge and pretty unfair. Bringing SCV health to 40 hp would make it very fair, especially as it can be repaired to 100% in few seconds. Or 45 hp max (still 5 mutalisk to 1-shot it). 60 is just waay over the top as long as they can be repaired.
Some say it's because SCVs don't have regeneration like probes or drones. Still, they have direct manual healing(repair) available at any time, which is great, especially when doing bunker/scv rushes vs P and Z. Is 60 hp really necessary given these few examples? Probes and drones are still killed by vultures, marines, mutas withing 2 seconds. So why not make them all same.
Just a thoughtful opinion.
Yeah but probes mine faster and have a larger field of vision so.. .. .. Sorry my response wasn't totally serious, but you get my point. The small differences between races end up balancing nicely in the end,
On March 27 2017 02:06 zaMNal wrote: ONE serious balance suggestion for the 1.18 patch, if I may:
As I was watching today's "I <3 StarCraft" The Legend BO3 match between Flash and Stork on Outsider. Stork dropped 2 dragoons with +2 attack upgrade (both 0 kills as the observer clicks to check both) at 9 o'clock to shoot down mining SCVs from other side of the mineral line, which was defended by 1 vulture. 20 seconds later when the observer re-checked, those 2 dragoons had 4 kills combined (2 kills each), which means 1 vulture + 3 scv in 20 seconds.
Link to the video (watch on youtube, timestamp 2h47m05s):
Directly afterwards Flash drops 2 vultures with same attack upgrade in one of Storks's bases at 6 o'clock. Within 6 seconds those 2 vultures killed exactly 6 probes, while Stork's dragoons were able to kill just only 4 units within 20 seconds (yes, dragoons do half damage to smaller units. but if 2 vultures do 6 kills in 6 seconds, can't dragons do at least 6 kills in 3 times longer duration of 20 seconds?).
To get to the point, as we all know, SCVs have 60 hp while probes and drones have 40 hp. It takes whole 7 mutalisks to 1-shot an SCV but probe and drone need just 5 mutalisks. This difference is also huge and pretty unfair. Bringing SCV health to 40 hp would make it very fair, especially as it can be repaired to 100% in few seconds. Or 45 hp max (still 5 mutalisk to 1-shot it). 60 is just waay over the top as long as they can be repaired.
Some say it's because SCVs don't have regeneration like probes or drones. Still, they have direct manual healing(repair) available at any time, which is great, especially when doing bunker/scv rushes vs P and Z. Is 60 hp really necessary given these few examples? Probes and drones are still killed by vultures, marines, mutas withing 2 seconds even with their "regen". So why not make them all at least similar.
Just a thoughtful opinion.
Something to keep in mind is that SCVs have slower acceleration then the other workers so they technically cannot attack as fast and or mine as efficiently. SCVs also need to stay on the building they are producing so that HP is kinda needed for that.
Someone should make things clear, because im reading so much conflicting opinions here. Is the REMASTERED version going to be free to play or just the originals (the not remastered ones). Please do answer and if some admin could edit the thread because it seems misleading.
So does anyone know what the native support for fish means? Is fish going to improve english functionality? Is it going to be easier to get on the ladder/i.e I dont need a kr number anymore or what?
Heard so many koreans declare that fish was the sole province of the korean race, I'll be more than a little pissed if there are no forthcoming changes in the uh...culture..of the server.
On March 26 2017 18:23 kogeT wrote: The valk fix will only affect mass wraith scenario in late TvT. (+ 4v4 and ums games)
It also heavily affects TvZ mech. Like massively? You now will be able to go a ton of valks without needing to bank up irradiate versus mass mutalisks.
Unless i'm wrong and the AI is still going to be buggy as hell lol.
There's one huge issue with going mass valks with mech vs zerg (or bio even) and that's once the air is dead the valks lose their utility and they take a bunch fo supply. Valks are good to mix in, but it's always best to get vessels in the long term I think.
The thing is, there is always air units for zerg. They are called overlords. If they are gone as well then sure, the valks won't have a use then. However, that wouldn't matter since the zerg wouldn't be able to produce ground units anyways...
Lol if you think the Valk change affects TvZ you obviously don't know the matchup.
On March 27 2017 02:33 Espartaquen wrote: Someone should make things clear, because im reading so much conflicting opinions here. Is the REMASTERED version going to be free to play or just the originals (the not remastered ones). Please do answer and if some admin could edit the thread because it seems misleading.
The blue posts on the bnet forums are the definitive answer.
On March 27 2017 02:33 Espartaquen wrote: Someone should make things clear, because im reading so much conflicting opinions here. Is the REMASTERED version going to be free to play or just the originals (the not remastered ones). Please do answer and if some admin could edit the thread because it seems misleading.
Original (with 1.18 update) will be free, Remastered will not be free. But you don't have to buy Remastered as it will be same as 1.18 original but only with improved graphics. That means you can play online in a same game, using your original free 1.18 game from your pc with a friend who bought Remastered. That's what developers said.
On March 27 2017 02:47 toriak wrote: currently what are the exact conditions under which valk bug occurs ?
So ur with ur friends and yur playing bgh wen the phone rigns. U anser it n the vioce is "wut r u doing wit my valkyrie sprites?" U tell ur girl n she say "my valkyrie sprites r ded".
On March 27 2017 02:47 toriak wrote: currently what are the exact conditions under which valk bug occurs ?
If I remember correctly the maplimit was ~1600 units. A Carrier for example counts as 1+Interceptors (8?) = 9 units. A Vulture counts as 1+ used Spider Mines = max 4. I think some of the mapfeatures were also counted as unit. Since the rockets of a Valkyrie also count as a unit they werent able to shoot when the maplimit was already reached.
On March 27 2017 02:47 toriak wrote: currently what are the exact conditions under which valk bug occurs ?
If I remember correctly the maplimit was ~1600 units. A Carrier for example counts as 1+Interceptors (8?) = 9 units. A Vulture counts as 1+ used Spider Mines = max 4. I think some of the mapfeatures were also counted as unit. Since the rockets of a Valkyrie also count as a unit they werent able to shoot when the maplimit was already reached.
it is neither the unit limit nor the absolute sprite limit but simply the weapon sprite limit, and more specifically the extra low weapon sprite limit for Valkyries (probably introduced by the developers as a clumsy workaround to preevent Valkyries taking over the whole list of weapon sprites and thus jamming all other units instead...)
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
Am I the only one thinking that SC2 was so terrible that Blizzard had to re-master the old SC? This is just an attempt at keeping a dying game mode alive, 1v1, it won't work.
Social gaming is the trend, SC and SC2 are based on 1v1, it simply won't be a big eSport because of that, that time has passed.
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
I've seen multiple screen shots of the proper settings to have for it to launch correctly, is there a good thread for setup?
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
But be advised MCA has no intentions of updating mca64Launcher to work with either 1.18 or Remastered. If you choose to continue using the launcher you WILL be stuck on 1.16.1.
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
But be advised MCA has no intentions of updating mca64Launcher to work with either 1.18 or Remastered. If you choose to continue using the launcher you WILL be stuck on 1.16.1.
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
I've seen multiple screen shots of the proper settings to have for it to launch correctly, is there a good thread for setup?
MCA should basically just be ready to launch and go right from the download, if you have bw installed. The only issues that came up with me for broodwar consistently were colour glitches, but MCA has a feature pre-set to fix that as well. Shouldnt have any issues.
On March 27 2017 03:21 mOnion wrote: if I dont have BW installed, should I wait until this patch comes out so it can launch properly with the new benefits to running on a modern rig?
or do I still need this mca64launcher and shit regardless?
Your going to want MCA either way as its an antihack + gives lan lat in games if others have that, or a similar program enabled. The patch will hit in a week, so if you want to install now or then is just up to when you want to play.
I've seen multiple screen shots of the proper settings to have for it to launch correctly, is there a good thread for setup?
MCA should basically just be ready to launch and go right from the download, if you have bw installed. The only issues that came up with me for broodwar consistently were colour glitches, but MCA has a feature pre-set to fix that as well. Shouldnt have any issues.
On March 27 2017 03:26 soldier8 wrote: what about vessel's miss EMP's?
Its an aimed spell its supposed to miss sometimes
On March 27 2017 03:51 jpg06051992 wrote: Is it going to still be a 12 unit hotkey cap? Sorry if this has been answered already lol don't want to shift through that many pages.
Btw mega hyped will definitely be getting in on this, looks incredible.
yes all core gameplay with the exception of goon stop bug + valk missile bug is staying
On March 27 2017 03:33 PuroYO wrote: Am I the only one thinking that SC2 was so terrible that Blizzard had to re-master the old SC? This is just an attempt at keeping a dying game mode alive, 1v1, it won't work.
Social gaming is the trend, SC and SC2 are based on 1v1, it simply won't be a big eSport because of that, that time has passed.
I don't think that was on their minds. They probably just wanted to preserve the classic game and give ti more life.
What are you talking about? SC1 has been growing in players and viewership.
On March 27 2017 03:33 PuroYO wrote: Am I the only one thinking that SC2 was so terrible that Blizzard had to re-master the old SC? This is just an attempt at keeping a dying game mode alive, 1v1, it won't work.
Social gaming is the trend, SC and SC2 are based on 1v1, it simply won't be a big eSport because of that, that time has passed.
I don't think that was on their minds. They probably just wanted to preserve the classic game and give ti more life.
What are you talking about? SC1 has been growing in players and viewership.
Dont take the bait dude, he only has one post. He's probably an alt of someone who just wants to start a flame war.
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
It says "added support for Fish" which is the Korean third-party server with its own ladder, but it isn't matchmaking.
We'll see if they add it to BW in a future patch when SC:R comes out.
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
It says "added support for Fish" which is the Korean third-party server with its own ladder, but it isn't matchmaking.
We'll see if they add it to BW in a future patch when SC:R comes out.
Yeah but doesn't that mean the fish ladder will be built in?
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
I suspect matchmaking will be limited to SCRE. Otherwise they lose a part of sales potential. Many people would jump at trying BW if they knew a functional matchmaking exists. nobody likes to look for games in channels, especially new kids I assume. It takes overcoming shyness. Not only that, when you do find a partner, if you're a newbie, you'll get stomped the first 500 games. :p
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
It says "added support for Fish" which is the Korean third-party server with its own ladder, but it isn't matchmaking.
We'll see if they add it to BW in a future patch when SC:R comes out.
Yeah but doesn't that mean the fish ladder will be built in?
It'll probably be built into the Fish server which will can be selected from the official list of regions/servers, but I wasn't aware that the ladder had automatic matchmaking like SC2. Having the ladder and ratings will still be useful.
Do you think that Matchmaking and ladder systems will be the same of SC2,with Leagues and MMR? Honestly, I don't care that much about old graphics, I just want fair matches and a ladder to climb without having to install other programs .
On March 27 2017 03:52 Bareleon wrote: Anyone know what day this week BW will be patched? I wanna try out the match making.
Looks like the patch is coming on Thursday according to the OP, but I don't think it'll include matchmaking. I think matchmaking will be limited to the Remastered edition.
I don't think so. I think it will come with the patch. Look at the last item in the list (I think it was the last item, before the bugs).
If it doesn't come with the new patch then they will probably wait till SCRE comes out then patch BW with match making too. It will be on both games since someone who has BW can play against somebody who has SCRE in the same match.
It says "added support for Fish" which is the Korean third-party server with its own ladder, but it isn't matchmaking.
We'll see if they add it to BW in a future patch when SC:R comes out.
Yeah but doesn't that mean the fish ladder will be built in?
It'll probably be built into the Fish server which will can be selected from the official list of regions/servers, but I wasn't aware that the ladder had automatic matchmaking like SC2. Having the ladder and ratings will still be useful.
Yeah I think you'll still have to find your own matches and most likely handle all the stuff like opening ports on your Router to host.
Valks already are a suitable solution to mass air. This might impact valkonic builds in tvz a bit, but its probably going to have the biggest impact in just strengthening the trend for air battles in TVT. It is a balance change. But fixing a legitimate glitch that did nothing but impede the game is totally fine lol.
On March 27 2017 04:34 raff100 wrote: Do you think that Matchmaking and ladder systems will be the same of SC2,with Leagues and MMR? Honestly, I don't care that much about old graphics, I just want fair matches and a ladder to climb without having to install other programs .
Even if it didnt (I hope it does ofc) you wont have to install diff programs to get third party ladders.
On March 27 2017 06:49 Canadianboy wrote: Im confused, will the original game have matchmaking or that's only included in the remastered?
Matchmaking is only for the remastered at the moment. The original is not getting matchmaking this week, and it's unknown if it will get matchmaking later.
I think there s way too much hype around this; we have all seen what happens when blizzard gets involved in making something "new" . People where getting excited for sc2, just like this now, and we all see where that went.
On March 27 2017 07:33 pebble444 wrote: I think there s way too much hype around this; we have all seen what happens when blizzard gets involved in making something "new" . People where getting excited for sc2, just like this now, and we all see where that went.
Realistically, what could they screw up at this point? Nearly everything is intact int he remaster, and they're giving away the original BW for free for anyone who doesn't want to switch.
On March 27 2017 07:33 pebble444 wrote: I think there s way too much hype around this; we have all seen what happens when blizzard gets involved in making something "new" . People where getting excited for sc2, just like this now, and we all see where that went.
Realistically, what could they screw up at this point? Nearly everything is intact int he remaster, and they're giving away the original BW for free for anyone who doesn't want to switch.
I' m not questioning what they are doing and saying they are doing. I' m questioning their integrity overall in the past years and this project they undertook. And i' m not saying only because of starcraft. Even this move right now, is not casual, and the reason they are giving it out for free, is that in 1 years time it will be a public domain game. This is an excuse not to let go. Granted, they created the game, and its their property. I think the people who created the game learned after a while to let it go. A true master lets go of his work once it is completed, and by completed i don' t mean perfect. Imperfection becomes perfection when something is complete. This mentality nowadays of updating everything all the time, is not useful or important in the long run. To me this looks like two years someone went right, sc2 has not proven that interesting or productive, lets see what we can do with bw now. Even if its free, trust me they have though about how much they will get back For there investment of having a team working on all this. Its all about the money. No soul.
The day of this patch goes live, when Starcraft goes free, it s going to be a lot of fun.
I am excited to see if matchmaking is set up already. Even if it isn't, I can't wait to cheese all the noobs, or just play similar skilled noobs. Going free overall for classic broodwar is such a good decision.
On March 27 2017 07:33 pebble444 wrote: I think there s way too much hype around this; we have all seen what happens when blizzard gets involved in making something "new" . People where getting excited for sc2, just like this now, and we all see where that went.
Realistically, what could they screw up at this point? Nearly everything is intact int he remaster, and they're giving away the original BW for free for anyone who doesn't want to switch.
I' m not questioning what they are doing and saying they are doing. I' m questioning their integrity overall in the past years and this project they undertook. And i' m not saying only because of starcraft. Even this move right now, is not casual, and the reason they are giving it out for free, is that in 1 years time it will be a public domain game. This is an excuse not to let go. Granted, they created the game, and its their property. I think the people who created the game learned after a while to let it go. A true master lets go of his work once it is completed, and by completed i don' t mean perfect. Imperfection becomes perfection when something is complete. This mentality nowadays of updating everything all the time, is not useful or important in the long run. To me this looks like two years someone went right, sc2 has not proven that interesting or productive, lets see what we can do with bw now. Even if its free, trust me they have though about how much they will get back For there investment of having a team working on all this. Its all about the money. No soul.
That's really annoying to read, why can't it be part of both. If all the team wanted was money then they wouldn't even start this project, they'd just make something cheap and profitable like those gacha mobile games or something. Not ever single soul invovled in the project was in it for the money given that this was a classic game but of course they need to make it sound somewhat profitable to even get the project off the ground.
And what's this about BW entering the public domain? Aren't copyrights for games 95 years after the publication or is there something else here I'm missing?
1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
Hmm, I suppose this imbalance was addressed in SC2 with the introduction of the queen's inject ability.
I know probably most people would be against it, but I would really like to be able to rally workers straight to the minerals... It'd be the greatest QoL feature for me (apart from changing hotkeys) I'm okay if they leave the 12 unit selection and everything else as is, but this one is such a big pet peve.
On March 27 2017 07:33 pebble444 wrote: I think there s way too much hype around this; we have all seen what happens when blizzard gets involved in making something "new" . People where getting excited for sc2, just like this now, and we all see where that went.
Realistically, what could they screw up at this point? Nearly everything is intact int he remaster, and they're giving away the original BW for free for anyone who doesn't want to switch.
Looks like they might break custom games, specifically any map that relies on EUD or extended players - for supply, building upgrades, or other miscellaneous things. A majority of modern UMS maps use these techniques. With fish and anti-hack integration, I'm assuming this will mean no separate fish servers with nigh-mandatory wdetector (with EUD plugin built-in). If this is true, it would almost completely kill the custom game scene in korea.
long have i asked for updated bnet with core bw game. updated graphics is the cherry on top.
blizz finally knows what theyre doing.
On March 27 2017 08:35 NB wrote: Just right when I got my life together and thought gaming gona be history... Thanks Blizzard! The technology is finally here I guess ^^!
Hmmm not sure about that keybind option. I wonder if BW tournaments in Korea will force traditional keybinds as a rule just to make it match the original as much as possible.
I feel like one of the most physically difficult things in BW is when your hand needs to be removed from the keyboard (or slid long distance) to hit your next sequence of keys. 1ta2ta5i0s is quite different from 1ta2ta5eQs. (This is Groups 1-2 are marines stim-attack. Group 5 vessel irradiate(i->e). Group 0(->Q) scanner sweep). I really like that physical element to BW.
On March 27 2017 09:25 L3monsta wrote: I know probably most people would be against it, but I would really like to be able to rally workers straight to the minerals... It'd be the greatest QoL feature for me (apart from changing hotkeys) I'm okay if they leave the 12 unit selection and everything else as is, but this one is such a big pet peve.
its really not a big deal, but then again i wouldnt be totally opposed to this change either. i just think, "i had to learn this, why shouldnt he?"
It is a very big deal, but its kind of an important macro chore to do. Attention & Focus are an important of Brood War, so taking that out, would have serious consequences on how easy it is to macro up and the like.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
If i dont have to tab back to my base but can instead hit one button and go vvvvvvttt that is a huge fucking deal
On March 27 2017 14:38 mechpaul wrote: I'd also love to see a better screenshot system. Saving to PCX when nobody uses that format could be improved to JPG or PNG.
On March 26 2017 14:28 Probemicro wrote: >Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size >no balance change
pick one
>implying fixing a bug that has been problematic for years is a balance change >being that delusional
It is a balance change. How is it not? Valkyries will do more damage in large scale battles.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this bug did not happen in 1v1 matches. Although if we're just talking semantics and what constitutes a balance change, I ain't barking up that tree.
On March 26 2017 14:28 Probemicro wrote: >Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size >no balance change
pick one
>implying fixing a bug that has been problematic for years is a balance change >being that delusional
It is a balance change. How is it not? Valkyries will do more damage in large scale battles.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this bug did not happen in 1v1 matches. Although if we're just talking semantics and what constitutes a balance change, I ain't barking up that tree.
It does. someone said in the other thread that it happened during flash vs.sea not too long ago.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
I have to disagree. Macroing bio in TvZ would be hilariously easy... I think TvZ is one of the most mechanically demanding matchups, and otherwise would be too easy for Terran. Also, in TvP, timing pushes like 5 factory would be so much easier to execute well.
So,i guess fixing the bug that causes dragons freeze will also fix lings,marines hydras and medics too ?if not then we need somehow let them know this should be fixed lol.or u will have me switching to protoss right away.
Well the bug is a side effect of unit command priorities, I guess, and therefore affects all units, but is more prevalent with Dragoons simply because of their awfully long attack animation (thus making it more likely to command-jam them mid-attack). If they can identify the cause, it would be more easy and straight forward to just fix the general problem than to build a workaround specifically for the goon and there would be no reason not to, so I guess it will be fixed in general.
It happens to all units, been happening a lot to me with Zealots lately and it is extremely frustrating when you have 1 zealot in the worker line who just freezes and doesn't kill anything while u are microing the others...
So guess they will fix all, but as said before Dragoons is the main issue, since it is the most likely to happen
I would have added additional, optional noob friendly features to the campaign and maybe even to LAN (ONLY OPTIONAL). I do not want or need those but friends of mine do not want to play BW because of the mechanical demand. It would have been nice to be able to play with them at least on LAN.
You dont understand. I am superior in intellect to Flash. The only thing holding me back from beating him is because all he does is muscle memory. With no mechanics I can clearly outstrategize him and win easy. All BW is today is just mechanics, no strategy. It is a strategy game in the end.
On March 27 2017 20:29 duke91 wrote: You dont understand. I am superior in intellect to Flash. The only thing holding me back from beating him is because all he does is muscle memory. With no mechanics I can clearly outstrategize him and win easy. All BW is today is just mechanics, no strategy. It is a strategy game in the end.
You can play SC2 if you want MBS and other stuff. Broodwar is a different kind of game. You can choose your strategy game, but mechanics is part of what broodwar is. It also effects the balance o the game.
edit: and it's not just a strategy game, it is real time strategy game.
On March 27 2017 20:29 duke91 wrote: You dont understand. I am superior in intellect to Flash. The only thing holding me back from beating him is because all he does is muscle memory. With no mechanics I can clearly outstrategize him and win easy. All BW is today is just mechanics, no strategy. It is a strategy game in the end.
You can play SC2 if you want MBS and other stuff. Broodwar is a different kind of game. You can choose your strategy game, but mechanics is part of what broodwar is. It also effects the balance o the game.
edit: and it's not just a strategy game, it is real time strategy game.
On March 26 2017 14:28 Probemicro wrote: >Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size >no balance change
pick one
These bug fixes will change the balance slightly in most cases but Valks are disgustingly good AvA so Terrans are going to have a great time against Zerg air.
While these 2 are focused on valks and goons aren't there rarer situations with other units having the same problem? I remember the sprite bug kicked in for another unit but I don't remember which.
On March 26 2017 14:28 Probemicro wrote: >Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size >no balance change
pick one
These bug fixes will change the balance slightly in most cases but Valks are disgustingly good AvA so Terrans are going to have a great time against Zerg air.
While these 2 are focused on valks and goons aren't there rarer situations with other units having the same problem? I remember the sprite bug kicked in for another unit but I don't remember which.
Marines also get that stuck until stop bug, it's very annoying early game TvP when a probe survives because of it heh.
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
to play the campaign u dont need 150 apm,now i see 2 problems here, #1 you want to play at the lvl you are used to. the better for you is to acept the reality that u will not be the player from your youth,and play slower and lower lvl.(dont worry boxer yellow and old pros know this.) #2 like in football there is age limit to perform.now im sure BW is more than a game and this is the reason it will survive any game
On March 27 2017 22:01 jello_biafra wrote: Well this is quite unexpected, they're actually going to finally fix the dragoon stop bug and the valk misfire?!
I hope mca is updated accordingly largely because that's what I use to stream...
mca already stated that the launcher will be dead for 1.18,sad to heard cuz the twitch feature is amazing
We don't even need BW HD, this patch is all we need.
I feel bad for Shieldbattery though, it was such an awesome project If only Blizzard had faced the truth earlier and decided to release this patch 2 years ago...
On March 27 2017 22:01 jello_biafra wrote: Well this is quite unexpected, they're actually going to finally fix the dragoon stop bug and the valk misfire?!
I hope mca is updated accordingly largely because that's what I use to stream...
mca already stated that the launcher will be dead for 1.18,sad to heard cuz the twitch feature is amazing
Damn
perhaps I can use it in the background or something...
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
to play the campaign u dont need 150 apm,now i see 2 problems here, #1 you want to play at the lvl you are used to. the better for you is to acept the reality that u will not be the player from your youth,and play slower and lower lvl.(dont worry boxer yellow and old pros know this.) #2 like in football there is age limit to perform.now im sure BW is more than a game and this is the reason it will survive any game
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
to play the campaign u dont need 150 apm,now i see 2 problems here, #1 you want to play at the lvl you are used to. the better for you is to acept the reality that u will not be the player from your youth,and play slower and lower lvl.(dont worry boxer yellow and old pros know this.) #2 like in football there is age limit to perform.now im sure BW is more than a game and this is the reason it will survive any game
Ok i see. No use, it is like talking to a wall.
hey u can always play sc2bw mod and im sure having every(noobfriendly) feature will be great. no? ok
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
to play the campaign u dont need 150 apm,now i see 2 problems here, #1 you want to play at the lvl you are used to. the better for you is to acept the reality that u will not be the player from your youth,and play slower and lower lvl.(dont worry boxer yellow and old pros know this.) #2 like in football there is age limit to perform.now im sure BW is more than a game and this is the reason it will survive any game
Ok i see. No use, it is like talking to a wall.
I'm a hard advocate against MBS and MUS cap above 12 in competetive. However, I don't see the problem with having an optional mode with MBS and MUS cap above 12 for the campaign or LAN games. Isn't there a hack for MBS btw?
Once this patch hits, where is everyone migrating? Is West/East servers coming back and everyone will play there like the mid-2000s?
I'm assuming this will pretty much kill iccup (and shield battery, though I never even went there once)?
Also side question:
Price point of SC:R in the summer? I know I read somewhere earlier in this forum BW will be free now, but I'm sure that doesn't mean SC:R will be... they have to capitalize on this momentum since they've not made much money on BW over the past 15 years lol.
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
Sad post.
1. Interpreting eon's post as a personal attack and feeling the need to say you played competitively (whatever the hell that even means cause you clearly were never someone noteable). 2. Who needs to train 24/7 to beat the campaign/whatever/... Why should they be allowed to beat the game if they aren't any good? Do you think everyone should be able to beat tetris/pacman/... whatever game without any effort? Why even play the video games in the first place? No need for this ridiculous pandering. 3. You only get slower once you get older if you don't put in any practice. It's negligible. The best guitar players in the world are all of old age and they can still play insanely fast. Just a poor man's excuse for not having to put in any effort. 4. If you can't play with 200 apm, then don't try to. Lucky for you, you don't need 200 apm to beat the campaign or to even play the game at a high level if all of your actions are useful. Even savior the god of zerg only had around 230 apm if I remember correctly.
If there are any blizzard developers reading this. Please take a look at MCA 64 launcher. It has a really cool feature for streamers to see twitch chat in game. It would be amazing to have that. ^•^
On March 27 2017 22:14 endy wrote: We don't even need BW HD, this patch is all we need.
I feel bad for Shieldbattery though, it was such an awesome project If only Blizzard had faced the truth earlier and decided to release this patch 2 years ago...
It ll depend how the game actually is. SB will remain a friendly community "server" so both could coexist if there is indeed no gameplay difference between bw and sc:r
You can beat the campaign with minimal apm like 30, but I really don't see a problem with allowing for an option for auto build or auto mine in LAN or campaign. But there is no need for disgusting comments like "Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants." I am over 30, and beating the campaign is no problem for me or for healthy geriatics. As long as you can control a mouse and aren't senile/have dementia, beating the campaign is a given.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Valkyries will fire missiles regardless of population size Dragoons will not freeze and require a Stop order before accepting new orders
there will be riots
Also screen size is wider waiting for Fana to complain.
Thank goodness for this.. I swear my friend (terran) kept telling me this wasn't a thing, and I was like, "oh you sad person don't know what it feels like to have dragoons so close to killing a vulture/zergling/muta getting into your base only to have them stop."
On March 27 2017 20:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Man u can win the campaign with 1 hand whats wrong with people ?,do you want to win the game without any any effort ? lol
i loved to play ps1 dinocrisis 1 2 resident evil,metal gear,alone in the dark,soul river,great games,and they werent easy
Rofl. I played competetive when you still were shitting your pants. But there are people these days just not having time to train 24/7 anymore or never were good at pc games. And you will see once you hit 30 or above you are getting slower and slower. I personally have problems with my wrist and cannot play >200 apm anymore.
Those people i meantioned will never play competetive so it would not have hurt to add an extra mode for those people.
to play the campaign u dont need 150 apm,now i see 2 problems here, #1 you want to play at the lvl you are used to. the better for you is to acept the reality that u will not be the player from your youth,and play slower and lower lvl.(dont worry boxer yellow and old pros know this.) #2 like in football there is age limit to perform.now im sure BW is more than a game and this is the reason it will survive any game
Ok i see. No use, it is like talking to a wall.
hey u can always play sc2bw mod and im sure having every(noobfriendly) feature will be great. no? ok
But but, the starcraft campaign is like literally just sitting there til 200/200 and roll over the map? Like I beat it without even knowing what hotkeys and keybindings were.... i mouseclicked everything. you can do the entire zerg campaign by just building hydras and roll over the map... the next easiest thing would literally be to have an AI play the game
It only says down for preparation, nothing about releasing the patch tomorrow.
Would still be great if they did update a few days early, only wish they would merge the servers. Fish for Koreans and one server (like iccup) for foreigners would be best imo.
Please fix dragoon bug that happens so often and make reaver ai use its range and not suicide in turret range. today i put my reaver in range of sunken that hit me 3 times as i was moving forward with my reaver and it didnt want to shoot still...
On March 28 2017 03:56 Lorch wrote: It only says down for preparation, nothing about releasing the patch tomorrow.
Would still be great if they did update a few days early, only wish they would merge the servers. Fish for Koreans and one server (like iccup) for foreigners would be best imo.
Oh yeah, misinterpreted it. Thanks. I guess we'll find out.
I think the best we could have what SC2 has (i.e. unified NA server, rather than US-West and US-East). Definitely not an "all foreigner" server, though... as nice as that would be.
Would be nice if they scaled mini map properly for 192 sizes. Large maps generally aren't great for melee, but would be nice for ums. Hopefully someone in the dev team reads tl
On March 28 2017 04:23 _Animus_ wrote: Please fix dragoon bug that happens so often and make reaver ai use its range and not suicide in turret range. today i put my reaver in range of sunken that hit me 3 times as i was moving forward with my reaver and it didnt want to shoot still...
That Reaver thing is largely because of maps, not an AI glitch in the absolute sense. Maps are most likely not going to be changed, so unfortunately I don't think this will change either.
Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
On March 28 2017 04:23 _Animus_ wrote: Please fix dragoon bug that happens so often and make reaver ai use its range and not suicide in turret range. today i put my reaver in range of sunken that hit me 3 times as i was moving forward with my reaver and it didnt want to shoot still...
That Reaver thing is largely because of maps, not an AI glitch in the absolute sense. Maps are most likely not going to be changed, so unfortunately I don't think this will change either.
It's a reaver thing. Trying to attack sunkens in a certain angle will make reavers just walk into them. It's easily reproducible.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Actually yeah now that I've thought about it (as with another reply to my post), TvZ would be quite different.
I get nervous because the mechanics having a steep learning curve will probably scare off a lot of people inexperienced with strategy games. That being said, the solution isn't to dumb it down to the point that SC2 became, but it'd be a shame if BW HD becomes a vacuum of only previous BW players.
On March 28 2017 04:23 _Animus_ wrote: Please fix dragoon bug that happens so often and make reaver ai use its range and not suicide in turret range. today i put my reaver in range of sunken that hit me 3 times as i was moving forward with my reaver and it didnt want to shoot still...
That Reaver thing is largely because of maps, not an AI glitch in the absolute sense. Maps are most likely not going to be changed, so unfortunately I don't think this will change either.
It's a reaver thing. Trying to attack sunkens in a certain angle will make reavers just walk into them. It's easily reproducible.
Apologies, maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough/misread the situation. Reavers also have a hard time dealing with non-standard ramps and bridges because of terrain issues, on top of whatever angle issues they have. So even if Reaver AI is fixed with regards to an ideal scenario like 360 degree approach to a Sunken in the middle of FS or something, that would not correct a lot of the Reaver issues in regards to walking into the line of fire on modern maps. Destination's bottom right expansion over the long bridge is a perfect example of such.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Actually yeah now that I've thought about it (as with another reply to my post), TvZ would be quite different.
I get nervous because the mechanics having a steep learning curve will probably scare off a lot of people inexperienced with strategy games. That being said, the solution isn't to dumb it down to the point that SC2 became, but it'd be a shame if BW HD becomes a vacuum of only previous BW players.
I know theres been a certain cultural shift in gamers-- because its gotten more mainstream, theres a lot of people who want easier games than maybe 20 years ago, when it was more niche. Still, theres always going to be people who want hard games. Either way, I got into bw when I was 6 years old. Not exactly as emotionally mature as most prospective gamers are now, and I happily spent almost a decade playing non melee games most of my time. BW has plenty to offer plenty of different kinds of gamers, though I dont expect it to just explode in the way league did. RTS will never do that in a sustained way imo.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Actually yeah now that I've thought about it (as with another reply to my post), TvZ would be quite different.
I get nervous because the mechanics having a steep learning curve will probably scare off a lot of people inexperienced with strategy games. That being said, the solution isn't to dumb it down to the point that SC2 became, but it'd be a shame if BW HD becomes a vacuum of only previous BW players.
I know theres been a certain cultural shift in gamers-- because its gotten more mainstream, theres a lot of people who want easier games than maybe 20 years ago, when it was more niche. Still, theres always going to be people who want hard games. Either way, I got into bw when I was 6 years old. Not exactly as emotionally mature as most prospective gamers are now, and I happily spent almost a decade playing non melee games most of my time. BW has plenty to offer plenty of different kinds of gamers, though I dont expect it to just explode in the way league did. RTS will never do that in a sustained way imo.
I think the next big resurgence will occur when we see brain-to-computer devices that allow you to bypass peripherals like mouse and keyboard entirely. Then all of the D- Strategic Genius (TM) players will either fulfill their skill promises or get bodied and quit. Most likely the latter, but hey. RTS can be big again for a bit.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Actually yeah now that I've thought about it (as with another reply to my post), TvZ would be quite different.
I get nervous because the mechanics having a steep learning curve will probably scare off a lot of people inexperienced with strategy games. That being said, the solution isn't to dumb it down to the point that SC2 became, but it'd be a shame if BW HD becomes a vacuum of only previous BW players.
I know theres been a certain cultural shift in gamers-- because its gotten more mainstream, theres a lot of people who want easier games than maybe 20 years ago, when it was more niche. Still, theres always going to be people who want hard games. Either way, I got into bw when I was 6 years old. Not exactly as emotionally mature as most prospective gamers are now, and I happily spent almost a decade playing non melee games most of my time. BW has plenty to offer plenty of different kinds of gamers, though I dont expect it to just explode in the way league did. RTS will never do that in a sustained way imo.
I think the next big resurgence will occur when we see brain-to-computer devices that allow you to bypass peripherals like mouse and keyboard entirely. Then all of the D- Strategic Genius (TM) players will either fulfill their skill promises or get bodied and quit. Most likely the latter, but hey. RTS can be big again for a bit.
I used to think this, but I think that removing the mechanical requirements will make the game "harder" similar to how SC2 is harder to win via technical skill alone. It wouldn't have as much replayability because there would be less room for error.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Anyone know if UPnP automatically opens ports? Or does it just not rely on that anymore?
The reason I ask is that I work at a boarding school so I am on their network. Through my router I am not able to open my ports. I think the only way I could open ports would be contacting the school's IT and having them do it. I am hoping this UPnP will just not require these ports to be open. I can play xbox live and other online games fine, bw just lags to hell.
On March 27 2017 08:27 ChesterShin wrote: 1. I hope that we will be able to make units out of more than just one building (same type of building) at a time like in SC2. As in, we could select two or more barracks, and click the hot key for a marine as many times as the number of units we want to/can make.
2. What is keybind? Thanks.
1. The answer is No (we refer to that as Multi-Building Select), this is considered a Cheat(hack) in Starcraft Broodwar and affects racial balance significantly.
2. Keybind means you can rebind your hotkeys to different keys. So if Marine by default is 'M' you could rebind it to 'R' or whatever you wished.
Thanks.
Regarding the Multi-Building Select:
I'm a very low level player, so I cannot see why this would make it racially imbalanced. Which race is better off and which is worse off?
As a low level player, this functionality was one of the best things I liked about SC2 as compared to BW. I suppose doesn't matter to me that much, because I loved the BW custom games for which this wouldn't matter too much.
P.S. When I first saw "Native support for Fish", I read it as "Native support for Flash" (cause I have no idea what Fish is) and I was thinking what does that even mean.. I don't think Flash really needs any support.. he's good on his own.
Zergs use hatcheries for macro, and as a result they need a lot less infrastructure. If a terran or protoss could bind 30 gateways/15 factories etc to one key and macro off it, they would have a large advantage in terms of focus etc.
Fish is a private third party ladder where basically all the koreans play. I dont know what kind of support they're offering, but hopefully something that will make it easier for english players to get in there. Currently you have to type in " I am korean" in hangul just to activate their anti hack, which is frustrating/difficult and pointless. We shall see!
As someone who's played a lot of both games (as I'm sure you have), I don't think the balance change will be very drastic if you can multiselect buildings. Everyone would have improvements and advantages that would come from the extra amount of time to focus, however, if you played a reasonable amount of BW, you became pretty quick at macroing even from large amounts of buildings, and you knew when to pick your spots. (..Well, that was usually still when I'd lose my entire M&M army to 3 lurkers!!)
It would be rather large, yes. If its easy to macro off alot of infrastructure, theres no cause to put in MBS anyway. No one is doing anything boring or difficult or time consuming or distracting themselves momentarily to allow for their mnm to be butchered by three lurkers.
Actually yeah now that I've thought about it (as with another reply to my post), TvZ would be quite different.
I get nervous because the mechanics having a steep learning curve will probably scare off a lot of people inexperienced with strategy games. That being said, the solution isn't to dumb it down to the point that SC2 became, but it'd be a shame if BW HD becomes a vacuum of only previous BW players.
I know theres been a certain cultural shift in gamers-- because its gotten more mainstream, theres a lot of people who want easier games than maybe 20 years ago, when it was more niche. Still, theres always going to be people who want hard games. Either way, I got into bw when I was 6 years old. Not exactly as emotionally mature as most prospective gamers are now, and I happily spent almost a decade playing non melee games most of my time. BW has plenty to offer plenty of different kinds of gamers, though I dont expect it to just explode in the way league did. RTS will never do that in a sustained way imo.
I think the next big resurgence will occur when we see brain-to-computer devices that allow you to bypass peripherals like mouse and keyboard entirely. Then all of the D- Strategic Genius (TM) players will either fulfill their skill promises or get bodied and quit. Most likely the latter, but hey. RTS can be big again for a bit.
I used to think this, but I think that removing the mechanical requirements will make the game "harder" similar to how SC2 is harder to win via technical skill alone. It wouldn't have as much replayability because there would be less room for error.
How are you using the word harder, here? Theres multiple ways your could understand the word, and in many ways-- the ways I would find interesting to talk about for a game, like complexity of information and difficulty in pulling off a task successfully, sc2 doesnt even rank in comparison to broodwar. sc2 is only difficult in the sense that rock paper scissors is difficult; the game is harsh, but its rules and give and take are also simplistic.
On March 28 2017 08:28 ted. wrote: Anyone know if UPnP automatically opens ports? Or does it just not rely on that anymore?
The reason I ask is that I work at a boarding school so I am on their network. Through my router I am not able to open my ports. I think the only way I could open ports would be contacting the school's IT and having them do it. I am hoping this UPnP will just not require these ports to be open. I can play xbox live and other online games fine, bw just lags to hell.
Sup Ted, long time no see!
UPnP can automatically open ports (or the equivalent of that), but the router you're using needs to support it and it needs to be turned on in the router. Which I doubt is true in a place like school, but you never know. You should still be able host/play on ShieldBattery without any problems .
On March 28 2017 08:28 ted. wrote: Anyone know if UPnP automatically opens ports? Or does it just not rely on that anymore?
The reason I ask is that I work at a boarding school so I am on their network. Through my router I am not able to open my ports. I think the only way I could open ports would be contacting the school's IT and having them do it. I am hoping this UPnP will just not require these ports to be open. I can play xbox live and other online games fine, bw just lags to hell.
Sup Ted, long time no see!
UPnP can automatically open ports (or the equivalent of that), but the router you're using needs to support it and it needs to be turned on in the router. Which I doubt is true in a place like school, but you never know. You should still be able host/play on ShieldBattery without any problems .
2pac! Whats up man!
Well I really hope I can get it working here. I can log into my router and mess with the settings, but when I opened my ports, it just doesn't seem to actually be opening them. I'm guessing because I'm on a school network.
Anyway, one way or another I plan on playing again. I really Hope that with bw remastered coming out that we will see a resurgence of the bgh scene!
I can't wait to see the impact of the new patch. In an interview, they said that they were working with many antihack add-on makers. So I believe they are not against them.. and that iccup should continue to work.
Pretty sure I saw this floating around before but I wanted to check. Will sc1:r be linked to the bnet app? Or will it be standalone like d1-2 and wc3?
Basically what I am getting at is our usernames. Can we endlessly make new accounts or do we need to stick to one name, and does it HAVE to be unique. Thanks!
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
400ms delay? I have a ping of ~30ms on LoL, if I had a ping of 400 I would go insane.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
400ms delay? I have a ping of ~30ms on LoL, if I had a ping of 400 I would go insane.
Old Bnet 400ms that's pretty good for pre-lat changer for Bnet, SC:BW and WC3:TFT pre latency changers is what minimum of 450ms with high latency setting being like 1050ms, UDP multiplayer something like 200ms, back in the good old days to get around crappy b.net playing on hamachi, which btw lan was something like 100-125ms not as quick as you'd think. The games don't run off server so it's restrained by who ever had the shittiest connection. Plus latency is call and response so it's more than just ping it's both ways.
That being said server based games like LOL and Dota 2 are vastly different, although who knows what the constant, tick rate is for those servers. I forget if SC2 is actual sever based games or not, i thought it was a hybrid not hosted on the server but acted as an intermediary for some data, but that was at launch have no clue how it is now.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
So there is a nearly half second delay in all those games and no-one noticed. This is what you are saying.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
You certainly felt it in the SEA region for sc2. We regularly get 180 - 220+ms to our closest servers in Sydney / Los Angeles and some of us over 350ms to Korea and even worse to EU. It was even worse before they opened up a dedicated server in Sydney, Oceania players were routed through either Singapore or Los Angeles before then but it is still atrocious.
LAN latency would be MUCH appreciated. Playing on iCCup for example, has been great for me.
EDIT: When the Sydney servers came up, some people got significant latency improvements to Korea, the lowest average was around 150ms to my recollection...
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
400ms delay? I have a ping of ~30ms on LoL, if I had a ping of 400 I would go insane.
I don't think he plays league so he probably doesn't know. The game would be unplayable at that ping.
I don't think anybody in the US gets 400ms. Before the server switch I was at a steady 40ms, now I'm at a stable 75ish
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
I don't play sc2 but how is the ping there? Anybody can tell me for comparison's sake?
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
I don't play sc2 but how is the ping there? Anybody can tell me for comparison's sake?
Your ms is your ms, it's not a built in ms delay like Star1 and War3 battle.net games.
On March 28 2017 08:28 ted. wrote: Anyone know if UPnP automatically opens ports? Or does it just not rely on that anymore?
The reason I ask is that I work at a boarding school so I am on their network. Through my router I am not able to open my ports. I think the only way I could open ports would be contacting the school's IT and having them do it. I am hoping this UPnP will just not require these ports to be open. I can play xbox live and other online games fine, bw just lags to hell.
Sup Ted, long time no see!
UPnP can automatically open ports (or the equivalent of that), but the router you're using needs to support it and it needs to be turned on in the router. Which I doubt is true in a place like school, but you never know. You should still be able host/play on ShieldBattery without any problems .
I wish Blizzard would implement Shield Battery and if two players can't active UPnP, it will switch automatically to Shield Battery.
I don't wish Shield Battery becoming a separate server, but rather integrated to system.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
SC2 doesn't have a forced delay. You can check it yourself by going to custom games, right clicking on a map and creating an offline game. You'll get a game with 0 ping. Compare that to ladder, and it's similar (depending on your ping).
250ms is what I get to brazil and it's almost unplayable. It's definitely not forced to 250 all the time lol
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.
Yes, it does have delay. Are you playing Dota2 regularly? Then you probably got used to the delay. Try playing HotS for a few weeks and then go back to Dota2. You will become aware of the forced delay
I tried dota 2 and i thought it felt "sluggish". I know when i played hon that i noticed that the response was fast. For sc2 i wasnt aware of it, but still feels really bad if blizzard said that they reverted it back to the long delay since people didnt talk about it.
Could it be because people accept what they are dealt? Why think about something that you think cant be changed.
I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I think 5 years ago, there was "some" delay, but a good chunk of the whining was from kids from HoN and LoL that really disliked the cast and turn speeds of Dota 2.
So, judging by what I've read here and elsewhere, I don't need to get signed up on iccup / use mca64 launcher, as people will be using bnet servers. What about maps though? Should I download iccup map packs or anything like that? Playing around on BW doing some vs AI games it seems like these maps are pretty outdated.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I only have my personal experience. I tried Dota2 after playing HotS (Heroes of the Storm) for a while, and the delay felt horrible, despite 30ms ping. This was after the Source2 engine update, if I remember correctly.
I'm considering installing Dota2 again, to see it with my own eyes again.
If anyone wants to do some experiments, HotS is a great baseline for a game without forced delay. LoL is without forced delay too, I believe.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I think 5 years ago, there was "some" delay, but a good chunk of the whining was from kids from HoN and LoL that really disliked the cast and turn speeds of Dota 2.
Either that, or you're wrong and there really is a forced delay, but you got used to it.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I think 5 years ago, there was "some" delay, but a good chunk of the whining was from kids from HoN and LoL that really disliked the cast and turn speeds of Dota 2.
LoL players cried about the cast and turn speed in Dota 2? I haven't played Dota 2 myself but the turn speed/casting animation canceling in LoL was abysmal...
i really think there is confusion between people feeling "forced delay" and a game that has actually turn rates/auto atk animations
LoL to Dota feels awful to people because every LoL hero has instant turn rates. I doubt anyone can distinguish the "feel" between the either this "forced delay" or whether its just getting used to turn rates.
On March 29 2017 02:06 mOnion wrote: i really think there is confusion between people feeling "forced delay" and a game that has actually turn rates/auto atk animations
LoL to Dota feels awful to people because every LoL hero has instant turn rates. I doubt anyone can distinguish the "feel" between the either this "forced delay" or whether its just getting used to turn rates.
if dota had forced lag, pros would notice by now
What's so absurd about thinking that Dota2 still has forced delay? Especially considering that other games like SC2 also have forced delay. The pros obviously got used to it, like they did in Dota1 and SC2.
Anyway, I'm downloading Dota2 to test it... 3 hours download though. No one will remember this discussion by the time my download has finished. Feels bad.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I think 5 years ago, there was "some" delay, but a good chunk of the whining was from kids from HoN and LoL that really disliked the cast and turn speeds of Dota 2.
LoL players cried about the cast and turn speed in Dota 2? I haven't played Dota 2 myself but the turn speed/casting animation canceling in LoL was abysmal...
Thats the thing, everything was absolutely instant. Its super super easy to last hit in LoL, and your character spins around instantly. That's why melee carries aren't really a thing in LoL, since a ranged carry has infinite kiting potential. (Usually in Dota, ranged characters turn around slower than melee characters, giving ranged a disadvantage if melee is able to get too close, they can stutter up infinitely.)
On March 28 2017 19:59 Dapper_Cad wrote: So there is a nearly half second delay in all those games and no-one noticed. This is what you are saying.
Oh, people notice. SC:BW and HoN people.
Yes, you do get used to it. Once you are in sync with the game, delay or not, you are in sync with the game. You correct for it. Obviously, you can do some amazing micro despite the delay.
But if you come from SC or HoN, and move to Dota2 or SC2, it irks. You want crisp control of units. When you have it, it is an amazing thing.
Yes, Dota2 has the same delay as WC3, as the central design philosophy is that it needs to match Dota as closely as possible. Unit rotations need to be added to the build-in delay. But WC3 also has unit rotation.
Yes, in single player you have optimal (very low) delay in SC2, or SC. But in multiplayer it is added to keep every player in sync with the game as SC2 doesn't allow players to go out of sync, doesn't use a server, and doesn't use client side prediction. SC2 has the most silly online infrastructure possible; routed peer-to-peer. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/117158-some-notes-regarding-sc2-networking
That setup has a lot of disadvantages, but gives Blizzard the control they want, without having much server demand.
Saying that SC2 has no delay at all is silly talk. You always have a delay. The minimum delay possible is a delay up to the next frame/game update. The point is not having the same delay as in single player as in multi player because of network code that puts crisp play on a low priority.
If I've understood (and I'm pretty sure I've only got the broad strokes):
Because you're dealing with a lot more data in an RTS as you have more individual units, you're force into a queuing system for commands. The queue in SC2 is updated 5 times a second. That's a "built in" 200ms (one fifth of a second) delay. I was incredulous when someone said 400 ms before, but 200ms is believable.
Someone said earlier that Blizz experimented with reducing this delay, what I'd guess this means is that they tried updating the queue more times per second, but when no-one said much they reverted. This makes sense because a noticeable difference might mean doubling the update rate (ten times per second would mean reducing the delay from 200ms - 100ms) which would also mean doubling the network traffic which would mean more expense.
It all seems plausible and reasonable... I'd be interested if anyone could find an RTS which updates faster.
I think there's a conflicting use of terms here. I can accept that there is some built "delay" with SC2, but its not the same thing at all compared the giant battle.net delay you see in WC3 and SC1's battle.net play. When I micro online in SC2 its super smooth, WC3 its freaking unbearable and I absolutely hate it. Ultimately we're talking about different kinds of delay or different degrees of it.
Last time I played SC2, in beta for free, it was like battle.net. Last time I saw someone measure it, it was 400ms. Last time I saw Blizzard talk about it, they said they made it higher.
When a currenct SC2 player comes to me and tells me they don't feel a delay, I take that with a grain of salt. When Blizzard comes out with a remake of SC and don't talk about the build-in delay, I am not convinced either. So do or don't we need plugins to get our LAN latency back, with SC:R?
That 98% of the Dota2/LoL/SC2 players don't care about this, never talk about this, I understand. But I am not in that category.
On March 28 2017 19:59 Dapper_Cad wrote: So there is a nearly half second delay in all those games and no-one noticed. This is what you are saying.
Oh, people notice . SC:BW and HoN people.
Yes, you do get used to it. Once you are in sync with the game, delay or not, you are in sync with the game. You correct for it. Obviously, you can do some amazing micro despite the delay.
But if you come from SC or HoN, and move to Dota2 or SC2, it irks. You want crisp control of units. When you have it, it is an amazing thing.
Yes, Dota2 has the same delay as WC3, as the central design philosophy is that it needs to match Dota as closely as possible. Unit rotations need to be added to the build-in delay.
Yes, in single player you have no delay in SC2, or SC. But in multiplayer it is added to keep every player in sync with the game as SC2 doesn't allow players to go out of sync, doesn't use a server, and doesn't use client side prediction. SC2 has the most silly online infrastructure possible; routed peer-to-peer. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/117158-some-notes-regarding-sc2-networking
That setup has a lot of disadvantages, but gives Blizzard the control they want, without having much server demand.
Saying that SC2 has no delay at all is silly talk. You always have a delay. The minimum delay possible is a delay up to the next frame. The point is not having the same delay as in single player as in multi player because of network code that puts crisp play on a low priority.
Posted at the same time as you ^^. I am fairly sure I'd notice 400ms, the post I linked had some random guy saying "(typically, around 12 frames ie. 200ms)" but I have no clue how bang on that is. The post you linked seems to contain no useful information for the released version of SC2 because of the switch from TCP to UDP.
I assume if BW doesn't have the delay over LAN it's because they are less worried about how much data the network is using so they can update the game state more often (?). What's your contention here? That BW updates more often over LAN? Over B-net? On fish?
It is not a matter of updating. LAN latency for SC is also not the same as latency in single player, and neither is instantanious, as the game isn't forced to update prematurely just because it got an input/command.
BW and SC2 use the same amount of bandwith. A game like HoN uses about 10x as much. I played SC with a 28.8 baud modem. The netcode was written for that. Right now, I am on 1gbit fibreglass. Yet Blizzard seems to be forcing me to play with delay, because a player might be laggy and their netcode is too lazy to handle it smartly.
Just like the SC2 engine is fundamentally flawed to facilitate a crisp microable RTS, so their SC2 netcode has no regard for what type of game it is going to facilitate. Why? Because most of their player base doesn't seem to care. They never had as a design criteria for their netcode: "Ok guys. We need to find multiple tricks to keep this inbuild delay as low as possible, and come up with some intricate code for it." No. They just put in a delay, routed peer to peer, and that's that.
It is the same way as their game engine fundamentally doesn't alllow proper micro, because what kind of control the game engine would lead to was never a consideration in the minds or discussions of those that wrote the code at that time.
On March 29 2017 01:40 Sr18 wrote: I don't notice any delay in Dota2 when I'm playing with low ping. Do you have any recent source about the input delay that you mentioned? The link you gave is 5 years old.
I think 5 years ago, there was "some" delay, but a good chunk of the whining was from kids from HoN and LoL that really disliked the cast and turn speeds of Dota 2.
LoL players cried about the cast and turn speed in Dota 2? I haven't played Dota 2 myself but the turn speed/casting animation canceling in LoL was abysmal...
Thats the thing, everything was absolutely instant. Its super super easy to last hit in LoL, and your character spins around instantly. That's why melee carries aren't really a thing in LoL, since a ranged carry has infinite kiting potential. (Usually in Dota, ranged characters turn around slower than melee characters, giving ranged a disadvantage if melee is able to get too close, they can stutter up infinitely.)
This is a misconception, LoL's idea of a "carry" is more of a glass cannon than someone who can 1v5 enemy teams. It makes no sense to have a melee glass cannon.
There were "hyper carries" or "Dota-style" carries in season 1 of LoL and some of them were in fact melee.
I just fired up a dota2 bot game. Zero delay. Everything responded instantly. Puck's phase shift for instance, happened on screen before I even managed to fully press the hotkey for it. If there is a build in delay of several hundred ms, it's definitely not there in a lobby I hosted. I don't have time to test in a regular match. The bot game felt normal though, so I doubt there is much of a delay otherwise (other than ping, which is 0 for a locally hosted game and between 20-50 ms in a normal match).
On March 29 2017 04:24 Sr18 wrote: I just fired up a dota2 bot game. Zero delay. Everything responded instantly. Puck's phase shift for instance, happened on screen before I even managed to fully press the hotkey for it. If there is a build in delay of several hundred ms, it's definitely not there in a lobby I hosted. I don't have time to test in a regular match. The bot game felt normal though, so I doubt there is much of a delay otherwise (other than ping, which is 0 for a locally hosted game and between 20-50 ms in a normal match).
Look. I am a scientist. I have do experiements on the femto-timescale.
You entering a game and saying there is literally 'zero delay' is just meaningless to me, because the game doesn't have an infinitely high frame rate. That you mean that you 'feel no delay' is also meaingless to me. I also suspect that if you play a game in lobby in Dota2, there is single player delay, not multiplayer delay. So besides your measuring stick not being able to measure what we want to talk about, whatever you tried to measure probably wasn't there anyway.
You need to somewhat high speed camera to measure the screen, so the frames can be counted. Then it can be shown how much difference there is in different games and game modes. Not until you can accurately link a mouse press with whatever is recorded on screen, you can know for sure.
EDT? so for Europe it means Friday March 31st at 06:00 AM ?
3/30 US Time is not a day later in Europe. If it happens at midnight it's 6 AM on 3/30 in europe. But since blizzard is west coast it'd be more like 9 am. However, chances are they'll patch sometime at noon US time so that'd be evening in europe. Either way the patch should hit sometime on March 30, even if you are in Europe.
On March 29 2017 04:24 Sr18 wrote: I just fired up a dota2 bot game. Zero delay. Everything responded instantly. Puck's phase shift for instance, happened on screen before I even managed to fully press the hotkey for it. If there is a build in delay of several hundred ms, it's definitely not there in a lobby I hosted. I don't have time to test in a regular match. The bot game felt normal though, so I doubt there is much of a delay otherwise (other than ping, which is 0 for a locally hosted game and between 20-50 ms in a normal match).
I'm downloading Dota2, SC2 and HotS to get a definite answer. Will probably post results in 24 hours.
On March 29 2017 04:24 Sr18 wrote: I just fired up a dota2 bot game. Zero delay. Everything responded instantly. Puck's phase shift for instance, happened on screen before I even managed to fully press the hotkey for it. If there is a build in delay of several hundred ms, it's definitely not there in a lobby I hosted. I don't have time to test in a regular match. The bot game felt normal though, so I doubt there is much of a delay otherwise (other than ping, which is 0 for a locally hosted game and between 20-50 ms in a normal match).
I'm downloading Dota2, SC2 and HotS to get a definite answer. Will probably post results in 24 hours.
On March 29 2017 04:03 Philoctetes wrote: It is not a matter of updating. LAN latency for SC is also not the same as latency in single player, and neither is instantanious, as the game isn't forced to update prematurely just because it got an input/command.
BW and SC2 use the same amount of bandwith. A game like HoN uses about 10x as much. I played SC with a 28.8 baud modem. The netcode was written for that. Right now, I am on 1gbit fibreglass. Yet Blizzard seems to be forcing me to play with delay, because a player might be laggy and their netcode is too lazy to handle it smartly.
Just like the SC2 engine is fundamentally flawed to facilitate a crisp microable RTS, so their SC2 netcode has no regard for what type of game it is going to facilitate. Why? Because most of their player base doesn't seem to care. They never had as a design criteria for their netcode: "Ok guys. We need to find multiple tricks to keep this inbuild delay as low as possible, and come up with some intricate code for it." No. They just put in a delay, routed peer to peer, and that's that.
It is the same way as their game engine fundamentally doesn't alllow proper micro, because what kind of control the game engine would lead to was never a consideration in the minds or discussions of those that wrote the code at that time.
I am now very irate. I don't know how I shall sleep. I am only rage now. Thank you for showing me the light.
On March 29 2017 04:03 Philoctetes wrote: It is not a matter of updating. LAN latency for SC is also not the same as latency in single player, and neither is instantanious, as the game isn't forced to update prematurely just because it got an input/command.
BW and SC2 use the same amount of bandwith. A game like HoN uses about 10x as much. I played SC with a 28.8 baud modem. The netcode was written for that. Right now, I am on 1gbit fibreglass. Yet Blizzard seems to be forcing me to play with delay, because a player might be laggy and their netcode is too lazy to handle it smartly.
Just like the SC2 engine is fundamentally flawed to facilitate a crisp microable RTS, so their SC2 netcode has no regard for what type of game it is going to facilitate. Why? Because most of their player base doesn't seem to care. They never had as a design criteria for their netcode: "Ok guys. We need to find multiple tricks to keep this inbuild delay as low as possible, and come up with some intricate code for it." No. They just put in a delay, routed peer to peer, and that's that.
It is the same way as their game engine fundamentally doesn't alllow proper micro, because what kind of control the game engine would lead to was never a consideration in the minds or discussions of those that wrote the code at that time.
I am now very irate. I don't know how I shall sleep. I am only rage now. Thank you for showing me the light.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.
Yes, it does have delay. Are you playing Dota2 regularly? Then you probably got used to the delay. Try playing HotS for a few weeks and then go back to Dota2. You will become aware of the forced delay
On March 26 2017 14:45 Morbidius wrote: Keybinds fuck yeah. I wonder how the people who were saying that ''pressing bad keybinds is a skill'' feel now that regular BW has it.
On March 28 2017 06:27 Spec1aLisT wrote: Can someone explain to me, if they will change the Latency completely and make it mandatory to everyone to play at Lan speeds? I Love the latency now(low latency). Because I play a game called Snipers and it needs it to be that way, otherwise the game mechanics are ruined.
There is no reason to think it won't have the same latency as WC3 and SC2; battle.net latency.
Blizzard has never patched LAN latency into SC with any of their patches, nor acknowledged it's importance for SC2. I get shivers about how everyone in 2017 playing DOTA2, LoL and SC2 is used to playing with 400ms delay.
Wc3 has the same built in delay. We're waiting on the day it gets fixed, too.
Well, with SC2 they kept the WC3 delay. Dota2 kept the Dota delay from WC3, to be more authentic. LoL has the same delay.
So most people got used to SC2 build-in delay, which would be completely unacceptable post-lan latency in SC BW. People got used to it. SC2 players stop caring. They either came from WC3, LoL, Dota2, and are used to it. When they came from LAN lat SC, they either quiit or stopped caring.
People used to build-in delay of SC2, WC3, Dota2, LoL, they say they don't feel it. They don't feel something is wrong.
But when you play HoN or SC, it is obvious something is wrong and it is unplayable 'until you get used to it'. Blizzard in beta even reduced the build-in delay for a while during SC2. Then they came out and said 'no one noticed it, as no one talked about it', and they promptly turned it back on.
There is 10,000 pages on balance talk on the SC2 page, but almost none on the build-in delay.
For me, there is no reason to 'get used to' a huge build-in delay. But I guess I am weird.
SC2 does not have a WC3-style delay. WC3 delay its literally 250ms when you're playing on Battle.net versus other forms of the game. Hence why even though WC3 has a built in ladder as opposed to BW, Battle.net is still unplayable with the delay and most serious people play on 3rd party platforms.
SC2 definitely does have a forced delay of about 200ms. Dota2 does too. HotS doesn't.
What? It absolutely does not. 200ms would be unplayable in today's modern environment. Dota 2 doesn't have any such delay either. What we're talking about is the built in delay Blizzard added for Battle.net before broadband was a thing so ping wouldnt be a HUGE advantage.They stopped doing it for SC2 but WC3 and BW suffer from such a delay.
Yes, it does have delay. Are you playing Dota2 regularly? Then you probably got used to the delay. Try playing HotS for a few weeks and then go back to Dota2. You will become aware of the forced delay
The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.
I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.
Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
On March 29 2017 08:24 Nixer wrote: The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.
I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.
Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
Not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think I have an idea what you mean.
Did you ever play Quake 3? When you would shoot your gun, you wouldn't immediately see the shot until the server received your data and confirmed it back to the client. So I guess that's what you're saying, right?
This might be true, sure. I'll do experiments with Dota2, SC2 and HotS. Maybe that will help to clear it up. I'm expecting SC2 to have an artificial delay of around 200ms. Let's see how the other games compare
If what you say is true, I'll expect a delay of around 100ms in Dota with my 40 ms ping.
BTW, the work Blizz today gave us Brood War USA-1 back, which is awesome
Also, I have four maps show up in my game list like this: + Show Spoiler +
I just did a fresh install and these four maps (Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker, Andromeda, Jade) are nowhere to be found in my maps folder. I can't imagine Blizzard using the iCCup versions of maps if they were to add them, so I feel like either 1. ShieldBattery is affecting this somehow (tec would know the answer to that) or 2. BW keeps your most recent maps in another location, even during a complete reinstall. In any event, I'd be curious to hear if anyone else sees anything like this
On March 29 2017 08:40 GoShox wrote: BTW, the work Blizz today gave us Brood War USA-1 back, which is awesome
Also, I have four maps show up in my game list like this: + Show Spoiler +
I just did a fresh install and these four maps (Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker, Andromeda, Jade) are nowhere to be found in my maps folder. I can't imagine Blizzard using the iCCup versions of maps if they were to add them, so I feel like either 1. ShieldBattery is affecting this somehow (tec would know the answer to that) or 2. BW keeps your most recent maps in another location, even during a complete reinstall. In any event, I'd be curious to hear if anyone else sees anything like this
Not sure how I feel about keybinds costumization.. one of the biggest parts about BW was that it was very hard mechanically. I hope they keep it that way....
On March 29 2017 09:51 Moonsalt wrote: Not sure how I feel about keybinds costumization.. one of the biggest parts about BW was that it was very hard mechanically. I hope they keep it that way....
Pylons and overlords give you an excuse to bind to 890
On March 29 2017 11:54 ShibalShekki wrote: OMG can't wait? Are people running Broodwar fine on windows 10? I have these black borders and can't get rid of them
That is normal. You don't want it to stretch the full length of you screen it will look weird and your mouse will feel weird. You have "no scaling enabled" in your graphics drivers which forces bw to use the correct resolution.
Will all be fixed in remastered for win 10 compatibility etc.
On March 29 2017 08:24 Nixer wrote: The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.
I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.
Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
Not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think I have an idea what you mean.
Did you ever play Quake 3? When you would shoot your gun, you wouldn't immediately see the shot until the server received your data and confirmed it back to the client. So I guess that's what you're saying, right?
This might be true, sure. I'll do experiments with Dota2, SC2 and HotS. Maybe that will help to clear it up. I'm expecting SC2 to have an artificial delay of around 200ms. Let's see how the other games compare
If what you say is true, I'll expect a delay of around 100ms in Dota with my 40 ms ping.
As far as I'm aware Quake has used the exact same network model(?) as the Source engine since QuakeWorld.
Sorry for being awfully off-topic guys. Hope you find 1.18 and SC:R to be great, since it's looking quite solid so far.
So, matchmaking system will be available only in remastered version, or in 1.18a? Or they just add it when remastered version will be released on both versions?
On March 29 2017 20:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Faust did u print that page ?it looks like a journal OO
That would have been super funny though. Some hardcore dedication to tell a stranger off on the Internet :D. I'm filing that idea for later: video of the page being printed, you getting it out of the printer, taking a picture of it with another phone, and sending it on TL.
On March 29 2017 20:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Faust did u print that page ?it looks like a journal OO
That would have been super funny though. Some hardcore dedication to tell a stranger off on the Internet :D. I'm filing that idea for later: video of the page being printed, you getting it out of the printer, taking a picture of it with another phone, and sending it on TL.
On March 29 2017 22:00 SirenDAY wrote: So, matchmaking system will be available only in remastered version, or in 1.18a? Or they just add it when remastered version will be released on both versions?
I dont see it saying matchmaking on the patch notes for 1.18 so i dont think it will have it tomorow.. it would be awesome if it did but its probably for the remaster.
Wow! These fixes seem really awesome. Especially the windowed/fullscreen toggles, player info, LAN improvements.. and the fact they added Fish server on the native game list is realllly awesome
On March 29 2017 22:00 SirenDAY wrote: So, matchmaking system will be available only in remastered version, or in 1.18a? Or they just add it when remastered version will be released on both versions?
On March 29 2017 22:00 SirenDAY wrote: So, matchmaking system will be available only in remastered version, or in 1.18a? Or they just add it when remastered version will be released on both versions?
Anybody understands how exactly this fish integration will take place? Is it just adding the Fish server on the gateway list by default? Will foreigners be allowed to play? How is the latency from Americas (South America, anyone?)? I've never played on Fish, only on ICCup.
On March 30 2017 05:09 petro1987 wrote: Anybody understands how exactly this fish integration will take place? Is it just adding the Fish server on the gateway list by default? Will foreigners be allowed to play? How is the latency from Americas (South America, anyone?)? I've never played on Fish, only on ICCup.
I believe it'll be like just having an extra server on startup, foreigners will have to make accounts and do the usual thing - look up a guide on TL about playing on the Fish server, it'll be explained. As for how South Americas -> games, you'll definitely have to snoop around.
On March 29 2017 08:24 Nixer wrote: The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.
I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.
Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
Not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think I have an idea what you mean.
Did you ever play Quake 3? When you would shoot your gun, you wouldn't immediately see the shot until the server received your data and confirmed it back to the client. So I guess that's what you're saying, right?
This might be true, sure. I'll do experiments with Dota2, SC2 and HotS. Maybe that will help to clear it up. I'm expecting SC2 to have an artificial delay of around 200ms. Let's see how the other games compare
If what you say is true, I'll expect a delay of around 100ms in Dota with my 40 ms ping.
As far as I'm aware Quake has used the exact same network model(?) as the Source engine since QuakeWorld.
Sorry for being awfully off-topic guys. Hope you find 1.18 and SC:R to be great, since it's looking quite solid so far.
Yea, I don't wanna derail this thread either, but I promised I'll do an experiment and post results... so let's go
I will make it easy on myself and not upload the videos I used for measuring. The results are boring and I don't know how to interpret them anyway.
So, I tested "netcode delay" in SC2, Heroes of the Storm and Dota2. And the result is the same for all 3 games ... it took about 9 frames after mouse click till any visible reaction. I recorded at 60 fps, so all three games were delayed by about 150ms.
In Dota2 I had a ping of 28-30ms. SC2 and HotS don't display the ping, but it probably was around 30-50ms.
Conclusion? 150ms delay in all three games? That would be unacceptable for first person shooters. Maybe this kind of netcode is an "obvious best choice" for MOBA and RTS. No clue.
Doesn't seem like BW will ever have widescreen or higher resolution options, whereas the Remaster will (unless I'm mistaken). That's enough for me to want to purchase the Remaster.
On March 30 2017 11:42 Spartangy wrote: Doesn't seem like BW will ever have widescreen or higher resolution options, whereas the Remaster will (unless I'm mistaken). That's enough for me to want to purchase the Remaster.
I still don't understand how battle.net servers will work. Are they using the old servers? Will they change the 250ms latency limit to LAN or simply play on Fish for that?
On March 29 2017 08:24 Nixer wrote: The reason why you might've thought you experienced a forced delay, by that I mean an artificial one to emulate the the WC3 experience in Dota, is because of UDP interpolation and lack of network prediction. The reason they haven't made a predictive systems is that they don't work that well for an ARTS/RTS unlike for an FPS. This can inherently make it feel delayed depending on the interpolation settings and servers, which Valve has improved during and since the beta. However this certainly is not an effort to emulate the experience of WC3 or anything among those lines nor on purpose per se, hence my initial reaction.
I guess you could technically call this artificial delay but that's often misunderstood. This system also has its advantages compared to other solutions.
Oh and not to mention other input issues and bugs which definitely were not on purpose.
Not sure if I understand you correctly, but I think I have an idea what you mean.
Did you ever play Quake 3? When you would shoot your gun, you wouldn't immediately see the shot until the server received your data and confirmed it back to the client. So I guess that's what you're saying, right?
This might be true, sure. I'll do experiments with Dota2, SC2 and HotS. Maybe that will help to clear it up. I'm expecting SC2 to have an artificial delay of around 200ms. Let's see how the other games compare
If what you say is true, I'll expect a delay of around 100ms in Dota with my 40 ms ping.
As far as I'm aware Quake has used the exact same network model(?) as the Source engine since QuakeWorld.
Sorry for being awfully off-topic guys. Hope you find 1.18 and SC:R to be great, since it's looking quite solid so far.
Yea, I don't wanna derail this thread either, but I promised I'll do an experiment and post results... so let's go
I will make it easy on myself and not upload the videos I used for measuring. The results are boring and I don't know how to interpret them anyway.
So, I tested "netcode delay" in SC2, Heroes of the Storm and Dota2. And the result is the same for all 3 games ... it took about 9 frames after mouse click till any visible reaction. I recorded at 60 fps, so all three games were delayed by about 150ms.
In Dota2 I had a ping of 28-30ms. SC2 and HotS don't display the ping, but it probably was around 30-50ms.
Conclusion? 150ms delay in all three games? That would be unacceptable for first person shooters. Maybe this kind of netcode is an "obvious best choice" for MOBA and RTS. No clue.
Well, we just have to take your word for it. And recording the computer you are measuring with the computer you are measuring is going to introduce noise. You also don't mention your error bars. So you measured it to within a ms? Therefore, the same for all? Or did you round down 50ms? And you didn't try HoN, WC3, or SC with and without LAN latency. So I would say according to you, SC2, Dota2, HotS are all the same (which ought to be the same as WC3). Draw your conclusions.
Also, was the 'visual reaction' a blib of the mouse, or the unit that starts moving? Those are two different delays. I suspect that the mouse blib has 'single player latency' as it doesn't affect the game state.
This is silly... they announced it would go live this morning. They had released the PTR 24 hours ago and wanted to get feedback within that window... Surprise surprise, no 1.18 release on time.
A big thank you to everyone helping with 1.18 on the test realm. We appreciate your candor.
As promised, this effort should not be disruptive to how you're already playing StarCraft. We want to ensure updates will either maintain or improve this gaming experience that you love. Playing and feedback on the test realm has been invaluable to that end.
We hope to have a new iteration out soon. Thank you for taking this first big step with us, and we look forward to continuing the journey with you by our side.
Create Game Updating latency controls to improve game responsiveness (was defaulted to L2)
Find Game Filtering by game type
Lobby Moving player position Locking Observer by default
System Reported input sluggishness Crash reports from 64-bit OS configurations Reported latency issues Maps not downloading to completion Setting FPS to 200
More to come, and we look forward to the next round of feedback with you.
Cheers, Pete
I don't think they'll do an official release so soon.
A big thank you to everyone helping with 1.18 on the test realm. We appreciate your candor.
As promised, this effort should not be disruptive to how you're already playing StarCraft. We want to ensure updates will either maintain or improve this gaming experience that you love. Playing and feedback on the test realm has been invaluable to that end.
We hope to have a new iteration out soon. Thank you for taking this first big step with us, and we look forward to continuing the journey with you by our side.
Create Game Updating latency controls to improve game responsiveness (was defaulted to L2)
Find Game Filtering by game type
Lobby Moving player position Locking Observer by default
System Reported input sluggishness Crash reports from 64-bit OS configurations Reported latency issues Maps not downloading to completion Setting FPS to 200
More to come, and we look forward to the next round of feedback with you.
Cheers, Pete
I don't think they'll do an official release so soon.
I thought the patch went live yesterday since we are on 31st of March. Shouldn't StarCraft be free now with patch 1.18a? I'm sure I got something wrong just not sure where...
On April 01 2017 04:25 Shield wrote: Is 1.18 released? I've tried to connect to Europe and US West, but it doesn't update.
On April 01 2017 05:03 Wrath wrote: I thought the patch went live yesterday since we are on 31st of March. Shouldn't StarCraft be free now with patch 1.18a? I'm sure I got something wrong just not sure where...
The patch was not released due causing too many problems.
The PTR will receive some updates soon. Today, Blizzard added PTR servers for all four regions. The PTR is free and contains the entire game.
The PTR version of 1.18a went live on the 29th. The final version of 1.18a was supposed to be out yesterday, but since many of us (myself included) reported so many bugs and changes back to Blizzard, they have chosen to extend the PTR for "at least another week".
Also, the PTR version is NOT available through the Blizzard app. You need a special PTR account to get access.
I installed the game fresh from my battle.net account, but the game is still messed up from when I had fish installed, it lists all the fish servers but i dont have the fish program anymore? also when i tried fish most of the places where their should be words wouldnt show up at all, now theres 2 lines of text in them, i have no idea whats going on.. any help?
photo with my phone since screenshot didnt capture the screen properly?
I think this could be added to the list perhaps and probably unmentioned thus far, but also less important. Pre 1.18 you can press *alt+s* to send your message in the lobby. This is nice when you are playing on a laptop and your mouse pad covers your enter key. It is so annoying having to move around your mouse pad when someone asks you if youre ready to start and then you have to get it back it the right position really fast as the countdown starts.
Another thing, in world of Warcraft the same hotkey can be set to two keys simultaneously, this is a nice feature and could fix the first problem I listed as well if they added a lobby send chat / game send chat hotkey, as well as 'startup chat' hotkey for in game, also I don't believe tab works anymore to cycle through games and chat boxes/game name/pass boxes.
On April 01 2017 14:43 gDPhantom wrote: I installed the game fresh from my battle.net account, but the game is still messed up from when I had fish installed, it lists all the fish servers but i dont have the fish program anymore? also when i tried fish most of the places where their should be words wouldnt show up at all, now theres 2 lines of text in them, i have no idea whats going on.. any help?
photo with my phone since screenshot didnt capture the screen properly?
On April 02 2017 06:14 stork370 wrote: I think this could be added to the list perhaps and probably unmentioned thus far, but also less important. Pre 1.18 you can press *alt+s* to send your message in the lobby. This is nice when you are playing on a laptop and your mouse pad covers your enter key. It is so annoying having to move around your mouse pad when someone asks you if youre ready to start and then you have to get it back it the right position really fast as the countdown starts.
Another thing, in world of Warcraft the same hotkey can be set to two keys simultaneously, this is a nice feature and could fix the first problem I listed as well if they added a lobby send chat / game send chat hotkey, as well as 'startup chat' hotkey for in game, also I don't believe tab works anymore to cycle through games and chat boxes/game name/pass boxes.
On April 02 2017 06:36 molotow[eef] wrote: Hey, when they write that valks will shoot whatever the population is, did they fix firelag entirely or specifially for valks?
We're not sure what they fixed. Valks still don't function well in large groups.
In a highly exaggerated test map I made in 3 seconds, mass wraiths beat mass valks.
Im posting this here so it benefits from google search. This is the best way to change or update your hotkeys at the moment. Based on a WINDOWS 10 OS Go to System(C Drive 99% of the time) C:\Users\YOURUSERNAMEHERE\Documents\Starcraft\hotkeys\$device
You will find a text file named "keys.txt" Open it and edit the text file. Use Search and look for what you want to change.
E.g If you want to change observer speed then open it on notepad and press CTRL+F to find a text.. Write Observer and make sure its the one named OBSERVER_SPEED . Next, proceed to change the key which comes next to the = sign.
An Australian player in the small UMS world war game community that I'm in mentioned that with the patch they may change the server such that his ping with north American players would be bad. Something about the new server would make regional ping less but international ping more.
Can someone explain why this might happen and what would be some solutions? This certain player is one of the limited number of people who know how to play our two main maps, it's not likely we'd be able to train more people to learn the map, and losing him due to unplayable ping would be pretty disastrous
The obvious solution would be iccup but the problem is gathering people, who usually come to a certain channel on US east and our attempts to get the world war game community to all switch to iccup has never worked the past few years
On April 03 2017 16:38 cncbmb wrote: The obvious solution would be iccup but the problem is gathering people, who usually come to a certain channel on US east and our attempts to get the world war game community to all switch to iccup has never worked the past few years
Actually they are adjusting the latency to the same level as iccup. This means that the game expects a network packet from everyone else in the game more often. If your ping is too high the result will be an unpleasant or unplayable stuttering. But you can just check it on iccup: if you can play there (maybe with extra high latency) you will be able to play with 1.18
On April 26 2017 07:19 Chris_Havoc wrote: Having to rewrite almost the entire backend was never going to be an easy task. It'll get better. Just have patience.
This, but the fact that they rolled back hotkeys and created a fair bit of issues that didn't exist (bnet bugs) makes me scared that SC:R or 1.18 will be a failure. I mean blizz is not necessarily known for recent success. They can't can't can't screw up on this one, SC:R could be huge.
On April 26 2017 07:19 Chris_Havoc wrote: Having to rewrite almost the entire backend was never going to be an easy task. It'll get better. Just have patience.
This, but the fact that they rolled back hotkeys and created a fair bit of issues that didn't exist (bnet bugs) makes me scared that SC:R or 1.18 will be a failure. I mean blizz is not necessarily known for recent success. They can't can't can't screw up on this one, SC:R could be huge.
I can fully understand that, and I would be lying if I said wasn't a bit concerned myself. But it does seem like Pete Stilwell and Co. have a solid gameplan, even if they did jump the gun a bit with the 1.18 release.
Hello, im running windows 10 64bits, i've been trying for long several ways to run the game without success, i have patch 1.18.8 already, every time i got the same issue. I Click on starcraft shortcut and nothing happens. I can see in taskbar that the game always opens in background processes without any cpu consumption in the end. I installed the game as admin and this is a fresh and clean install of windows. I really don't know how to fix this. If anyone can help i appreciate it. Im all ear's. Cheer's
At least it isn't soon™. I'd probably think that it may be delayed past September based on feedback they have been getting. It is a small team working on SC:R. Edit: and I hope that they take their time with it at this point.
Is there some kind of compilation of useful settings to get 1.18 bw going as intended for lazy fucks like myself, who are not too eager to flip through the whole thread?
Like, in my first 1.18 testgame my mouse felt "laggy" as well, i now learned to use full screen (vsync was already off) and the mouse is working, but im getting an actual fullscreen. I did check the box in my videocard driver to keep the ratio, but im still getting the stretched full screen. I also remember to have read something about how to get the right mouse sensitivity in bw, but i dont remember what it was (as of now, in full screen my mouse feels not laggy anymore, but way too fast).
On June 21 2017 07:04 Regentropfen wrote: Is there some kind of compilation of useful settings to get 1.18 bw going as intended for lazy fucks like myself, who are not too eager to flip through the whole thread?
Like, in my first 1.18 testgame my mouse felt "laggy" as well, i now learned to use full screen (vsync was already off) and the mouse is working, but im getting an actual fullscreen. I did check the box in my videocard driver to keep the ratio, but im still getting the stretched full screen. I also remember to have read something about how to get the right mouse sensitivity in bw, but i dont remember what it was (as of now, in full screen my mouse feels not laggy anymore, but way too fast).
Thanks for your help!
Last patch made my mouse very laggy in full screen windowed mode, so I had to swap to full screen + keep aspect ratio. I'm not sure how it works in terms of whether it's stretching the image, or displaying at the native resolution, or what. Also, at least for my GPU software, I had to tick two boxes--the one marked "scaling mode -- preserve aspect ratio" as well as the one marked "GPU scaling -- on" in order to go fullscreen but keep the 4:3 ratio. If I don't tick both boxes it stretches to 16;9 with the fullscreen setting.
As for mouse sensitivity....I think you just have to experiment til you find what you like. When I was using the full screen window without needing to maintain the aspect ratio through my GPU I didn't need to change my mouse settings when launching BW (I used 1600 DPI, 6/11 Windows setting). After I starting needing to maintain the aspect ratio, I experimented for a bit and found a setting that was similar enough (in my case, just changing from 1600 to 700 DPI). You probably have to do something similar.
is it possible to have starcraft 1.18 run in windowed all the way from start-up? as in, not just in-game? So that it plays like the ICCup windowed mode.
My mouse feels sluggish in the current patch, while in the previous one everything was fine and i even was able to stream. Now I always turn stream off, mouse still sluggish, like it had bad response + some sort of weird acceleration. forces me to play very slow. Also it seems like keys do not registered much more now. None of these issues existed for me on the previous patch of 1.18
On June 21 2017 19:42 heluq wrote: there is a china sever now, add this to your host file, 223.252.226.70 connect.classic.blizzard.com
Broodwar is peer to peer. Their are no "servers" as such. We host our own games is my understanding. Can you tell me what the benefit of connecting to this "server" would be.
On June 21 2017 19:42 heluq wrote: there is a china sever now, add this to your host file, 223.252.226.70 connect.classic.blizzard.com
Broodwar is peer to peer. Their are no "servers" as such. We host our own games is my understanding. Can you tell me what the benefit of connecting to this "server" would be.
Hopefully they make the connection exactly like Warcraft 3 / Starcraft 2 lag could destroy the remasters popularity.
Hard to say due to the low resolution gifs - not a good choice blizzard.I am not a fan of the new marine death animation though.Looks like a rock doodad.
that's very ugly. Wow if that would be what i see on my screen as final version, i'd play through the campaign like this again for the nostalgia. Perhaps. I'd definitely switch back to the old graphics directly after. I cannot imagine playing bnet like...that?
I mean i realize im probably biased towards the graphics i have been used to for a long time, but that just looks very bad.
This is one of those things where no matter what changes a bunch of people will complain because it's not the exact same as it used to be. Brood war was always an ugly game, none of you will blink an eye when it looks ugly in a slightly different way after a few weeks of getting used to it.
I can't get over how weird those siege tanks and ultras look, but I can't exactly explain what it is.
Other things mostly look okay, marine death animation looks pretty ridiculous but I think that's probably more the .gif than anything else. Kinda looks like a lego model being blown apart.
the marine death animation looks like it was ripped straight out of diablo 2. also the zerg death animations are extremely underwhelming compared to the tanks.
On June 24 2017 08:30 sM.Zik wrote: This looks worse than what we've seen before, let's just assume its really shitty gif quality...
id assume it has to be, nothing looked that bad in the preview trailer
They for sure changed the Zergling death blood/animation since the announcement. It was better back then.
This is the worst thing in all those gifs. Everything else is okay-ish for me, but changing the massive blood stains of a mass glings to this is a shame
On June 21 2017 19:42 heluq wrote: there is a china sever now, add this to your host file, 223.252.226.70 connect.classic.blizzard.com
Broodwar is peer to peer. Their are no "servers" as such. We host our own games is my understanding. Can you tell me what the benefit of connecting to this "server" would be.
Hopefully they make the connection exactly like Warcraft 3 / Starcraft 2 lag could destroy the remasters popularity.
however do you ever get such low lat as the low you can get in good conditions in bw thx to peer to peer? I dont think so the sprites in the gif dont look averall very good to me (dont like marine gling ultra death animations, but i think i do like the goon and archon after all just bit different, tank is a bit weird too shiny seems lightning is off? idk some shading and animating to be done), like I just prefer the original sprites or some animations but thats ok cause the option is always there to play with these
Well I don't believe this is the final product or anything. I think they made a mistake somewhere uploading old material or who knows what. They need to issue a statement soon though because keeping those low quality gifs up is going to confuse people.
Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
one thing I don't want to see happen is smtg like the crashes currently happening that were apparently introduced by 1.18 remaining with the game, it happens too often (someone crash at start of game, everybody wait 45seconds)
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Even if they broadcast live using remastered (observer), it doesn't prevent players from using the standard version since both are compatible, it's the whole point.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
People always talk about nostalgia clouding our minds, and brood war having bad graphics, but I love the graphics and nostalgia has nothing to do with it! I never played this game before august 2015 basically. If tournaments end up being only watchable in the nominally HD graphics (as shown in the presented gifs) I will cry.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
That's a big statement without any actual proof. I respect you tec, but people shouldn't be making statements like this without any verifiable evidence.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
That's a big statement without any actual proof. I respect you tec, but people shouldn't be making statements like this without any verifiable evidence.
I gave some in the previous statement? Or you could go back further and look at what Blizzard did to Kespa's BW leagues after they made they same sort of statements about BW vs SC2? There's plenty of history behind this.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Even if they broadcast live using remastered (observer), it doesn't prevent players from using the standard version since both are compatible, it's the whole point.
yep, I'm aware of that. My comment was regarding what we the viewers will see. Once remastered gets released, there is a high chance that any and all BW tournaments will be casting the game using the HD graphics, rather than the standard ones that we've watched for so long. My only hope is that the new gfx are close enough and look good enough in the final release so that we can enjoy the match rather than nitpick about some of the smaller changes.
eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
@edit BTW. Does anyone else have this feeling that it looks more like a game from 2003/2004 era rather then a new 2017 game? Maybe its just lightning or something but it looked rather graphically poor.
I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
SK is the biggest market so obviously Blizzard will make sure SC:R gets proper advertisement on the pro-scene, i.e. all the tournaments will be using SC:R. Blizzard's job is 50% make games and 50% sell games so whenever there's money to be made all efforts will be taken. Here's hoping 360p will do the trick.
Any word on custom hotkeys yet for the live version of SC:BW? Obviously they said it'll come with remastered but are they going to enable this for non-remaster bw players?
And will it hit before Remastered fully launches? Just curious.
On June 25 2017 14:47 avilo wrote: Any word on custom hotkeys yet for the live version of SC:BW? Obviously they said it'll come with remastered but are they going to enable this for non-remaster bw players?
And will it hit before Remastered fully launches? Just curious.
If I'm not wrong, it will be available for both HD and Non-HD version at the HD release.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Even if they broadcast live using remastered (observer), it doesn't prevent players from using the standard version since both are compatible, it's the whole point.
yep, I'm aware of that. My comment was regarding what we the viewers will see. Once remastered gets released, there is a high chance that any and all BW tournaments will be casting the game using the HD graphics, rather than the standard ones that we've watched for so long. My only hope is that the new gfx are close enough and look good enough in the final release so that we can enjoy the match rather than nitpick about some of the smaller changes.
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
Early announcement showed the same and loyal to BW death animation in HD. Seems like they felt the need to rework death animations altogether. So that's partly what they have been working on (and don't tell me they weren't. Any graphic designer can tell you that it is more time consuming to make new animations than fleshing out the old ones.) . Cant say that I am satisfied with the results.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Even if they broadcast live using remastered (observer), it doesn't prevent players from using the standard version since both are compatible, it's the whole point.
yep, I'm aware of that. My comment was regarding what we the viewers will see. Once remastered gets released, there is a high chance that any and all BW tournaments will be casting the game using the HD graphics, rather than the standard ones that we've watched for so long. My only hope is that the new gfx are close enough and look good enough in the final release so that we can enjoy the match rather than nitpick about some of the smaller changes.
Yea, HD is a must, no way they wouldn't do it.
yep, my thoughts exact. I always liked the standard graphics so ya, guess we'll see.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
oh, don't get me wrong. Disagree all you like lol. I'm just saying that going off low quality gifs isn't the best indicator of changes so we'll need to see more to get confirmation. Having said that, I chuckled a bit at the marine death animation. Feels more like rocks collapsing than a dying animation to me XD
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
That's a big statement without any actual proof. I respect you tec, but people shouldn't be making statements like this without any verifiable evidence.
I gave some in the previous statement? Or you could go back further and look at what Blizzard did to Kespa's BW leagues after they made they same sort of statements about BW vs SC2? There's plenty of history behind this.
Previous company history and evidence regarding a statement are not the same thing.
There are reasons to believe that a company like blizzard tends to make the same mistakes they made in the past, but things really need to be assessed case by case.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
That's a big statement without any actual proof. I respect you tec, but people shouldn't be making statements like this without any verifiable evidence.
I gave some in the previous statement? Or you could go back further and look at what Blizzard did to Kespa's BW leagues after they made they same sort of statements about BW vs SC2? There's plenty of history behind this.
Previous company history and evidence regarding a statement are not the same thing.
There are reasons to believe that a company like blizzard tends to make the same mistakes they made in the past, but things really need to be assessed case by case.
Meh. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that Blizzard doesn't have Brood Wars best interest at heart. And that they are now just pushing a new product in favor of killing their old one. Just like they did before.
On June 25 2017 03:43 Levque wrote: Being able to use the original sprites is cool ( I know I'll be using them) but remember, Blizzard is going to force the Korean tournaments to use the remaster and I assume the new sprites. Anyone looking forward to all future BW competition being a eye sore???
The "nostalgia" excuse is tired as hell, these sprites are just low quality. Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board and delay the game if needed to do this right.
Where the hell are you getting that from?
ASL4 will be using remastered, rather waiting for it. I can only presume the same for the rest. So, I think this past ASL and this upcoming ATB are the only remaining tourneys that will be using the standard version.
Do we actually have any information that blizzard is forcing these tournaments--- and any future online or offline tournament -- to do this? Adoption=/=forced adoption afterall.
Seems extremely likely that they will, given that they also forced the ASL to switch to 1.18 this past season (and only relented after much complaining from both fans and pros). Blizzard's "if you don't want to switch, you won't have to!" statements only go as far as they don't affect their own bottom line.
That's a big statement without any actual proof. I respect you tec, but people shouldn't be making statements like this without any verifiable evidence.
I gave some in the previous statement? Or you could go back further and look at what Blizzard did to Kespa's BW leagues after they made they same sort of statements about BW vs SC2? There's plenty of history behind this.
Previous company history and evidence regarding a statement are not the same thing.
There are reasons to believe that a company like blizzard tends to make the same mistakes they made in the past, but things really need to be assessed case by case.
Meh. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that Blizzard doesn't have Brood Wars best interest at heart. And that they are now just pushing a new product in favor of killing their old one. Just like they did before.
The new product literally is broodwar, however, which makes this claim more than a little fucking weird...
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
Early announcement showed the same and loyal to BW death animation in HD. Seems like they felt the need to rework death animations altogether. So that's partly what they have been working on (and don't tell me they weren't. Any graphic designer can tell you that it is more time consuming to make new animations than fleshing out the old ones.) . Cant say that I am satisfied with the results.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
Every go post in this thread: us.battle.net to show our concern, just in case this is really the case... We should either clear this up, or get some more info on this. Do not wait until we have a shipped product, and there is nothing more that can be done about an ugly and messed up BW that we'll be forced to watch from then on till eternity as all official Korean leagues will be streamed using it...
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
Early announcement showed the same and loyal to BW death animation in HD. Seems like they felt the need to rework death animations altogether. So that's partly what they have been working on (and don't tell me they weren't. Any graphic designer can tell you that it is more time consuming to make new animations than fleshing out the old ones.) . Cant say that I am satisfied with the results.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
Every go post in this thread: us.battle.net to show our concern, just in case this is really the case... We should either clear this up, or get some more info on this. Do not wait until we have a shipped product, and there is nothing more that can be done about an ugly and messed up BW that we'll be forced to watch from then on till eternity as all official Korean leagues will be streamed using it...
Good idea, better act before it's too late, they may not even realized how bad it is.
Done
edit: wtf we can't actually say "shit" on Blizzard's forums? what has the world become...
Blues were pretty quick and diligent replying to threads/posts and fixing issues relating to 1.18 bugs and UI improvements but I have not seen them say anything whatsoever regarding peoples concerns with some of the new unit designs/death animations.
It's because SC2/Esports blew up and TL is known by everyone from Anthony Robbins (invested in TL) to your average gamer. Artosis, day9 and the old school players also blew up, so even though broodwar has less players on the blizzrad servers themselves, the TL traffic is likely to be increased.
It's great news though. I've been lurking on TL since the legionnaire days (I'm 30+) despite my account date being quite recent :D
Why do the mutalisks look like a flying christmas tree with the weird lighting?
Also, holy shit.. who thought that making tanks die like nukes was a good idea. wow, that's just amazing how that death animation ever got past the first discussion level at blizzard.
On June 26 2017 12:02 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Blues were pretty quick and diligent replying to threads/posts and fixing issues relating to 1.18 bugs and UI improvements but I have not seen them say anything whatsoever regarding peoples concerns with some of the new unit designs/death animations.
That alone is deeply unsettling, isnt it? We need more people posting in that thread, some articulate/important people.
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
Early announcement showed the same and loyal to BW death animation in HD. Seems like they felt the need to rework death animations altogether. So that's partly what they have been working on (and don't tell me they weren't. Any graphic designer can tell you that it is more time consuming to make new animations than fleshing out the old ones.) . Cant say that I am satisfied with the results.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
On closer inspection, the Marine death animation in the old gif is the same as the one in the new gif, but the blood decal was using the old BW decal as a placeholder. You can see how the end of the animation doesn't line up with the placeholder decal. They probably got around to replacing those placeholder decals since then. The same could be said for the Zergling death animation and blood decal. They definitely need more polish. In particular, I think the Marine's death animation and new blood decal looks too awkward being that wide and spread out. The Zergling blood decal needs a lot more polish. In fact, I think a lot of this needs a few passes of polish and feedback. However, I think it'll look better in full resolution instead of in low-quality gifs. The new sprites that they showed off several weeks ago looked decent enough.
I hope they also revert the changes to the edge of the Archon
I know those gifs are low resolution (Why though? Blizzard ran out of processing power for gifs??? Had only 1 second to render the gifs before posting?) but my god, do those death animations look awful. Marines dying look like exploding destructible rocks and zerglings dying reminds me of Diablo 2. And what happened to archons? I liked the intial archon animations, now they look like fluffy cotton balls.
On June 26 2017 20:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I know those gifs are low resolution (Why though? Blizzard ran out of processing power for gifs??? Had only 1 second to render the gifs before posting?)
Page load times. Remember, a lot of people who play BW now have slower computers... and some of them live in Peru
On June 26 2017 20:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I know those gifs are low resolution (Why though? Blizzard ran out of processing power for gifs??? Had only 1 second to render the gifs before posting?)
Page load times. Remember, a lot of people who play BW now have slower computers... and some of them live in Peru
I had a 486 and dial-up 20 years ago. Multiple gifs weren't a problem back then. You just had a to wait a few seconds. Though obviously not high res. I suspect that people might have upgraded their computers in the intervening 20 years even in poorer countries as if they can afford them then, they can afford them now, as well as better internet.
On June 25 2017 13:00 MamiyaOtaru wrote: eurgh those death sprites look bad. In the sense that they don't look like the originals (but in HD) which things pretty much looked like before. Tank shell impacts and tank explosions looking different too. What happened to keeping things the same but higher res?
Like a lot of the nitpicking (it's too shiny! etc) has been a bit much but these things are just straight up different, and I thought that was against their mandate.
The mutas popping too.. just everything in those gifs
I watched and interview with the head designer(?) of the remaster somewhere on youtube, and he said that some sprites were not recoverable since the game is so old that Blizzard no longer had them. They had to make a lot of sprites and make them look like old bw or at least similar with HD.
Early announcement showed the same and loyal to BW death animation in HD. Seems like they felt the need to rework death animations altogether. So that's partly what they have been working on (and don't tell me they weren't. Any graphic designer can tell you that it is more time consuming to make new animations than fleshing out the old ones.) . Cant say that I am satisfied with the results.
On June 25 2017 13:11 BigFan wrote: I think that we should wait some more before passing any further judgement on the sprites etc... I just highly doubt they changed sprites since they showed the last trailer and hopefully they prove me right lol.
I respectfully disagree. People need to be vocal about this because once the game gets shipped. changing animations are out of the question. This game deserves the harshest criticism on any potential change. Even if it is "just" changing graphics.
I think the gore of the remaster marines doesn't look bad it is just the shoulder pads / helmets tumbling down that makes it look silly. I'm really concerned about the zerg gore and the plasticy archons though.
On June 27 2017 04:19 CobaltBlu wrote: I think the gore of the remaster marines doesn't look bad it is just the shoulder pads / helmets tumbling down that makes it look silly. I'm really concerned about the zerg gore and the plasticy archons though.
Yeah, they need to slightly tone down the debris on those marine deaths, though it's interesting that they got team color into the animation.
On June 27 2017 03:45 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: If these are the final units and animation I can only hope that I will be able to use the matchmaking ladder with the old graphics.
They already mentioned you can switch between old/new graphics on the fly.
Sorry about the bump, but is there a place where we can check SC Remastered new patch notes? Two days a week the game is updating, but no information available.
On August 31 2017 06:56 StarscreamG1 wrote: Sorry about the bump, but is there a place where we can check SC Remastered new patch notes? Two days a week the game is updating, but no information available.
On August 31 2017 06:56 StarscreamG1 wrote: Sorry about the bump, but is there a place where we can check SC Remastered new patch notes? Two days a week the game is updating, but no information available.
On August 31 2017 17:19 SkelA wrote: Anyone having ladder not recording their wins correctly?
Whenever i lose i get double loss in ladder info. My stats are 9-4 and ladder shows im 16-8.
Same here. When I go to my profile I have the correct stats but wrong MMR. When I go to the leaderbords for ladder I have the correct MMR but wrong stats (the stats is doubled).
I'm guessing they are trying to sort it out as we speak, lots of things buggy with Ranked.
On August 31 2017 17:19 SkelA wrote: Anyone having ladder not recording their wins correctly?
Whenever i lose i get double loss in ladder info. My stats are 9-4 and ladder shows im 16-8.
Same here. When I go to my profile I have the correct stats but wrong MMR. When I go to the leaderbords for ladder I have the correct MMR but wrong stats (the stats is doubled).
I'm guessing they are trying to sort it out as we speak, lots of things buggy with Ranked.
EPT
Am I the only one? :o
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