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On March 22 2017 00:31 Jae Zedong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 00:27 ZenithM wrote:
I mean it would probably be quite obvious on camera if it feels like the same old BW or if it's different. SC2 was obviously a different game. It could still look very, very similar and yet be completely different. Especially since graphical updates could mask new unit behavior to an observer.
Hmmm, I guess. Still I don't think the SC2 comparison is very fair :D. The gameplay vids will probably be dissected to no end by a lot of viewers, I think the only differences they could miss are the ones only the players would feel, like response time. But point taken, it can make or break a game.
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Why would a graphical update impact the way the engine understands unit behaviour etc?
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It's possible that an old 2D game like BW presents some coupling of rendering with the game engine. I don't know how BW was implemented, but path finding, collisions, mouse clicks can all possibly be directly tied to pixels. Afaik BW is grid-based, for path finding/collision (so BWHD would keep the same grid but just raise the number of pixels per cell), but still:
Because the project was always two months from launch it was inconceivable that there was enough time to re-engineer the terrain engine to make path-finding easier, so the path-finding code just had to be made to work. To handle all the tricky edge-cases, the pathing code exploded into a gigantic state-machine which encoded all sorts of specialized “get me out of here” hacks.
found in http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathing
Who knows what those "hacks" entail. Maybe they do look directly at the visuals.
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On March 22 2017 01:30 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Why would a graphical update impact the way the engine understands unit behaviour etc?
I didn't say that. What I meant was that if the engine has been altered to remove minor glitches/features, it might be harder to spot as an observer if the units' visuals also have been altered (which they will have been in one way or another). We will probably need to get our hands on it ourselves to check if everything plays 1:1.
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On March 21 2017 20:56 Zera wrote:
Or is it just me who can't live without daily doses of cancer/salt??
Hell yeah, let the drama keep going! 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LW6L4Id.jpg)
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 22 2017 01:44 ZenithM wrote:It's possible that an old 2D game like BW presents some coupling of rendering with the game engine. I don't know how BW was implemented, but path finding, collisions, mouse clicks can all possibly be directly tied to pixels. Afaik BW is grid-based, for path finding/collision (so BWHD would keep the same grid but just raise the number of pixels per cell), but still: Show nested quote +Because the project was always two months from launch it was inconceivable that there was enough time to re-engineer the terrain engine to make path-finding easier, so the path-finding code just had to be made to work. To handle all the tricky edge-cases, the pathing code exploded into a gigantic state-machine which encoded all sorts of specialized “get me out of here” hacks. found in http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathingWho knows what those "hacks" entail. Maybe they do look directly at the visuals.
That OP has lots of mistakes, read the following post to understand how pathing etc... work.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathing?page=9#176
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If they include MBS and automine I'm going to throw up all over my computer, then drive to Irvine and vomit all over Blizzard HQ. The past 100 posts are making me feel queasy.
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On March 22 2017 02:26 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 01:44 ZenithM wrote:It's possible that an old 2D game like BW presents some coupling of rendering with the game engine. I don't know how BW was implemented, but path finding, collisions, mouse clicks can all possibly be directly tied to pixels. Afaik BW is grid-based, for path finding/collision (so BWHD would keep the same grid but just raise the number of pixels per cell), but still: Because the project was always two months from launch it was inconceivable that there was enough time to re-engineer the terrain engine to make path-finding easier, so the path-finding code just had to be made to work. To handle all the tricky edge-cases, the pathing code exploded into a gigantic state-machine which encoded all sorts of specialized “get me out of here” hacks. found in http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathingWho knows what those "hacks" entail. Maybe they do look directly at the visuals. That OP has lots of mistakes, read the following post to understand how pathing etc... work. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathing?page=9#176
Thanks, but it doesn't alter my point in any way :D. Still grid-based, still contains a good amount of hacks, per the lead programmer's words.
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On March 21 2017 19:00 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 18:49 Jealous wrote:
Fuck. This thread is being taken over by "I wouldn't mind if MBS and automine were implemented in BW" people. Abort mission. No further constructive discussion can happen here it will only be of potential detriment. If you play SC2, love automine and MBS and smartcasting, I am very happy for you. Foreigners have begun to win games against Koreans again, Blizzard is balancing your game, there is much content to see.
Please leave BW alone. Don't let them hear your wanton cries for debasement of this game. It is as it should be. Dumb AI, bad pathing, 12 units per hotkey, who would ever want to play this mess? Right guys? Please T_T; You can always play BW non HD version. Also by now Blizzard has already decided/implemented these changes if this BWHD exists so no matter what any of us say here it will change nothing. This topic is for exchange of expectations and opinions, not for telling Blizzard how to design anything.
as much as I think Jealous would need a therapy for his obsession over broodwar, I think the mechanics should be left untouched
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TLADT24920 Posts
Mechanics should not be touched. The idea of a remaster is to fix any glaring bugs, provide OS support and increase the graphics quality. Gameplay and anything associated with it should not be touched.
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I can't wait for the salt when we learn they added the baneling and medivac to BW HD multiplayer
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There is much to do in BW that auto-mining wouldn't diminish the game, but actually give players more time to execute brilliant micro. Same for custom keys, there is no real downside to it.
However, unit group limit may NOT be touched. Grouping of buildings would be interesting, although I am more against it than not.
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On March 22 2017 03:14 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I can't wait for the salt when we learn they added the baneling and medivac to BW HD multiplayer
Ah cmon that would actually be horrible, we both know that 
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On March 22 2017 03:15 Rainalcar wrote:
There is much to do in BW that auto-mining wouldn't diminish the game, but actually give players more time to execute brilliant micro. Same for custom keys, there is no real downside to it.
However, unit group limit may NOT be touched. Grouping of buildings would be interesting, although I am more against it than not.
nah, having to send workers to mine is a pretty big part of having good broodwar mechanics, this needs to be left untouched
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Well I hope the game than has a classic mode for all your grogs
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On March 22 2017 03:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:14 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I can't wait for the salt when we learn they added the baneling and medivac to BW HD multiplayer Ah cmon that would actually be horrible, we both know that
What if they just added Liberators? Would that be okay?
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I love how Jealous makes big post about the bigger screen issue , then people with not other argument than modernization come here saying he needs therapy. Guess that's what you get for explaining things, getting repeatedly insulted from people who ignore how the game works
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 22 2017 03:14 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I can't wait for the salt when we learn they added the baneling and medivac to BW HD multiplayer
I very highly doubt that they'll add new units to the multiplayer so you'll be waiting a long time for that salt
On March 22 2017 03:39 ortseam wrote:
I love how Jealous makes big post about the bigger screen issue , then people with not other argument than modernization come here saying he needs therapy. Guess that's what you get for explaining things, getting repeatedly insulted from people who ignore how the game works
Anyone who actually played the game for a long while will realize that most of his points are on par with most of their thoughts so I wouldn't worry much about it 
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On March 22 2017 03:14 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I can't wait for the salt when we learn they added the baneling and medivac to BW HD multiplayer
Looks like I really need bigger, better fortified trench.
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On March 22 2017 03:32 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:15 Rainalcar wrote:
There is much to do in BW that auto-mining wouldn't diminish the game, but actually give players more time to execute brilliant micro. Same for custom keys, there is no real downside to it.
However, unit group limit may NOT be touched. Grouping of buildings would be interesting, although I am more against it than not. nah, having to send workers to mine is a pretty big part of having good broodwar mechanics, this needs to be left untouched
It is. And it can be replaced by something far more meaningful. I don't want people losing after brilliant psi storms because they weren't fast enough to deploy their workers. The spectators don't even care about this aspect, except when they see drones roaming around in the middle of the map out of the blue. Brood War is difficult enought not to lose a single thing if auto-mining is introduced. We are not talking about smart casting here.
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EPT
