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Afreeca Starleague Season 2
Group A: Monday, Jan 02 10:30am GMT (GMT+00:00)
Afreeca Starleague Season 2![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/Ro8n.png)
[ASL] Round of 8 Groups
| Forum Index > BW General |
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Afreeca Starleague Season 2 Group A: Monday, Jan 02 10:30am GMT (GMT+00:00) Afreeca Starleague Season 2
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
When will the games being played? | ||
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
On December 27 2016 21:50 StarscreamG1 wrote: What a wonderful bracket <3 When will the games being played? The dates are given on the picture. The time will be 7 p.m. of KST, i guess. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
 I don't truly think that but they are a dream come true for bw fans. Especially when you consider the ro4. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
In the month of novemBer hero has gone 6-3 against Best, 7-3 against Bisu, and 5-1 against GuemChi. I'm really rooting for hero to win this all. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 27 2016 21:33 FlaShFTW wrote: So far the reactions have been Guemchi contemplating existence and Stork being super quiet on his stream with a lot of sighing. Lol..it makes sense. I feel bad for both of them. Quite possibly the worst result both could have hoped for. Like I said before Stork has never been too strong PvZ. Especially versus a zerg like Jaedong, despite Jae not being in top form hes a demon for a reactionary micro based protoss like Stork. And as far as Guemchi vs Flash. It's a A class P's worst nightmare. I would expect Guemchi to try something cute...and I would imagine flash will counter is beautifully. Such is the will of the universe | ||
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Favian[PaiN]
United States75 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 27 2016 21:59 SCC-Faust wrote: I feel like this was the second best case scenario for hero. I'm very excited for the ro8. In the month of novemBer hero has gone 6-3 against Best, 7-3 against Bisu, and 5-1 against GuemChi. I'm really rooting for hero to win this all. I really think we will see Hero struggling as the protoss prepare more precise builds against his specific play. Protoss can see very clearly the timings of zerg and exploit them. The more information they have the harder it is for the zerg to react. | ||
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
On December 27 2016 22:03 Favian[PaiN] wrote: Is BO3 or BO5? bo5 | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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zyce
United States649 Posts
Bisu and Flash seem a cut above the rest, though. TBLS for life. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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PuckSama.
23 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:41 PuckSama. wrote: What a RO8... I don't know if I've ever seen this level before... You change Guemchi by Effort and it's just just the most insane RO8 ever =D At some point you have to acknowledge effort's inability to preform when it matters in the post kespa era. He's simply not the best right now despite his practice results. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
Calling it here. herO is going to rape BeSt with his superior ZvP and then he is going to beat Bisu in a close game, move on to finals and get raped by Flash | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
But we can't really complain, all matchups are pretty good, no hero vs JD ZvZ or other dumb mirrors. Hype Hype Hype | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:51 thezanursic wrote: herO vs Flash finals Calling it here. herO is going to rape BeSt with his superior ZvP and then he is going to beat Bisu in a close game, move on to finals and get raped by Flash Ill give you two to one odds on this | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:53 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Ill give you two to one odds on this A lot can happen definitely. Stork or Jaedong COULD upset Flash. Sea could upset Bisu (probably not), BeSt could upset herO, Bisu could take the series vs herO and I wouldn't be surprised. I simply think that, that final is the most likely, it won't necessarily happen, if I had to bet I'd bet on Flash vs herO, however I rather wouldn't be at all | ||
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L1ghtning
Sweden353 Posts
Best is the only underdog who really have a good chance of winning. Sea too maybe. I think he was underrated by pretty much everybody, going into this. It's funny how everybody were saying that he was the weakest seeded player, and he was the only one who made it. But still, it's Bisu. I think Sea is strong enough to challenge Bisu, but I will be surprised if he wins. I think the A and B series will be great, while the C and D series look completely one-sided, and I expect it to really hurt the quality of the games. Flash will not lose for sure. JD could lose if Stork comes up with some great strats, which he's certainly capable of, but a lot of things would have to fall in place for him to win a whole series. It's shaping up into a Flash vs Bisu finals, which is exactly what I wanted. | ||
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
-Best's PvZ is amazing, but still I give Hero like 60% to advance. -Yeah.. Flash.. -I doubt that Stork can win against JD, I give about the same chance to him as I do to Sea. | ||
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PuckSama.
23 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:43 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: At some point you have to acknowledge effort's inability to preform when it matters in the post kespa era. He's simply not the best right now despite his practice results. I'm not totaly agree with you, it's difficult to judge the level of Effort in a group stage with BO1 format. In the post kespa era he has already won a major tournament beating great players like Zero and Bisu. I like Guemchi, he's good player and he deserved his place but I would be much more excited in a bo3/bo5 Flash vs Effort rather than Flash vs Guemchi. Btw it's just my opinion ! Prediction : Bisu, Hero, Flash, JD => Bisu, Flash => Bisu | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:51 thezanursic wrote: herO vs Flash finals, Calling it here. herO is going to rape BeSt with his superior ZvP and then he is going to beat Bisu in a close game, move on to finals and get raped by Flash using both "calling it" and "rape" in 2016 | ||
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handsomeTom
Canada6 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:51 thezanursic wrote: herO vs Flash finals Calling it here. herO is going to rape BeSt with his superior ZvP and then he is going to beat Bisu in a close game, move on to finals and get raped by Flash Please do not use rape. You should use "Wrecked" or any other word | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On December 28 2016 00:33 neptunusfisk wrote: using both "calling it" and "rape" in 2016 Dictating language in >Current year< On December 28 2016 00:42 handsomeTom wrote: Please do not use rape. You should use "Wrecked" or any other word Not unless it's against forum rules, Bisu will sodomize Sea, there is no better word for it. | ||
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CUTtheCBC
Canada91 Posts
Jaedong / Hero / Bisu / Flash t4 but Jaedong is most likely to get 'upset' imo, he's really rusty atm!!!! | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On December 28 2016 01:40 CUTtheCBC wrote: please don't use 'rape', even if it's not specifically against forum rules Jaedong / Hero / Bisu / Flash t4 but Jaedong is most likely to get 'upset' imo, he's really rusty atm!!!! No, unless one of the forum moderators/admins openly states using the word "rape" in any context is against forum rules, of their privately run website, and that the rule will be globaly enforced, no. I don't see a point in needlessly censoring myself. Should we stop using the words "killed" "murdered" as well when talking in the context of Brood War because of "reasons"? Censoring words is precisely what gives them power over people. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On December 28 2016 01:43 thezanursic wrote: No, unless one of the forum moderators/admins openly states using the word "rape" in any context is against forum rules, of their privately run website, and that the rule will be globaly enforced, no. I don't see a point in needlessly censoring myself. Should we stop using the words "killed" "murdered" as well when talking in the context of Brood War because of "reasons"? Censoring words is precisely what gives them power over people. Your reasoning is stupid and moronic | ||
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anandworld
24 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9489 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On December 28 2016 01:50 neptunusfisk wrote: Your reasoning is stupid and moronic Not an argument On December 28 2016 01:51 anandworld wrote: Most people no longer use rape in the same way most people don't use gay as a pejorative ("that DT rush is so gay"). Its certainly within your right to use that word as a synonym but there's a reason why that sort of language is often associated with teenage Call of Duty players. It can be associated with whatever it wants to be, I don't partake in politically correct language, funnily enough I used to be more politically correct as a teenager than I am now, once I stepped into the real world, got a chance to actually interact with real human beings, several of them actually experiencing rape or being gay, I learned that limiting and mandating language protects nobody, except for the easily offended. I really don't mind talking about it, over PM, but that's enough of that, 2pac is right, this isn't the forum to discuss this. On December 28 2016 01:53 2Pacalypse- wrote: Guys, let me stop you right there. This is not the place to have this discussion. Okay, but to be clear. At the moment TL does not mandate language use in any context as long as it's not expressly hateful? | ||
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HerbMon
United States460 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
Anyways, hoping for a Bisu-herO-Flash-JD Ro4 | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3343 Posts
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AdelSC123
France362 Posts
I dont think people are giving Best enough credit, I can see him take out hero. Id rather have a Bisu vs Hero semi but I really have no idea who will advance here. 55-45 Hero wins. Poor Mang, but Im pretty sure I would be saying the same thing if he was matched with anyone else I feel like he is a class behind every player in the RO8. 90-10 Flash wins I'll to give this to JD, I feel like JD's current skills might be overrated but I don't see much fire inside Stork right now and you definitely need that to beat JD. If Stork can find a way to ignite the fire inside him then I'll give it to him as JD doesn't look as spotless as he should currently. 70-30 JD wins. I expect the Finals to be Bisu vs Flash, they are both scary in all matchups. Bisu doesnt have a bad record against Flash and when Bisu is at his best I believe that he is better than Flash but Flash is way more consistent so I'm really excited if this ends up being the finals. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
And also what's up with ppl with 3 and 9 posting history dictating here ppl who have been posting forever which words to use or not? In other hand I agree just because none of these guys are weak, none of them gonna get destroyed if they got this far. Even if someone gonna lose 0-3 at finals this doesn't mean he got raped. If Last advanced and met Flash would it be appropriate saying that Last gonna rape Flash again like last time? Think about it. | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
Including less prominent leagues, this phenomenon occurred most recently during WCG Korea 2009. There, the top three were Bisu, Stork, and Jaedong. (Flash lost to Bisu in the Ro8.) It also happened in the GomTV Star Invitational, where Flash's victory hinted at the eventual outcome of Bacchus '08. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11143 Posts
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TAKK.borg
Croatia93 Posts
I hope for more Benzene action, such a good map, I cant stop playing it! | ||
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1010 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Hero Flash Stork Bisu Stork Stork Disappointed we didn't get a TvZ. I know it would have meant a PvP, but that's fine as we would have gotten all 3 non-mirror matches if we swapped Guemchi and Hero. Ah well. We could get a TvZ if Sea beats Bisu or Jaedong beats Stork. Yes, I think that Flash > Guemchi and Hero > Best are nearly sure things. The other 2 are closer, imo. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:52 endy wrote: I was hoping for a TBLS Ro4. But we can't really complain, all matchups are pretty good, no hero vs JD ZvZ or other dumb mirrors. Hype Hype Hype Yep, I can agree with this. On December 28 2016 03:18 WGT-Baal wrote: Good i m off on Jan 3rd! Great draw! Lucky bastard. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
I don't think stork has any chance at all, if he somehow wins he will get destroyed by flash. Prediction : Bisu hero flash jaedong Flash Bisu Flash | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On December 28 2016 05:13 gngfn wrote: As far as I can tell, there has only ever been one other standard individual league with all of TBLS in the Ro8. That was Bacchus OSL 2008, where Flash famously defeated all three of the other members to take first place. The first game of the quarterfinals took place on February 15, 2008--nearly nine years ago. Including less prominent leagues, this phenomenon occurred most recently during WCG Korea 2009. There, the top three were Bisu, Stork, and Jaedong. (Flash lost to Bisu in the Ro8.) It also happened in the GomTV Star Invitational, where Flash's victory hinted at the eventual outcome of Bacchus '08. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/EVER2007_OSL and http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2008_Bacchus_OSL Were the only 2 ever. They also had 3/4 TBLS make the top 4, and ended as one would expect (Stork silver both). 2008 Bachhus OSL Ro8 also contains 5 of the players in ASL Season 2 Ro8! So does http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2009_Batoo_OSL ! Seriously, this top 8 is as good as any ever, even though it may be questionable how far from peak form some of them are, these could have fit in anywhere from 2007-2012 Pro BW. Only Guemchi never making a Ro8 in pro-BW really stands out. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
 .Hoping Jaedong does beat Stork and somehow surprises in the semi finals though. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On December 28 2016 06:02 Crisium wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/EVER2007_OSL and http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2008_Bacchus_OSL Were the only 2 ever. They also had 3/4 TBLS make the top 4, and ended as one would expect (Stork silver both). 2008 Bachhus OSL Ro8 also contains 5 of the players in ASL Season 2 Ro8! So does http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2009_Batoo_OSL ! Seriously, this top 8 is as good as any ever, even though it may be questionable how far from peak form some of them are, these could have fit in anywhere from 2007-2012 Pro BW. Only Guemchi never making a Ro8 in pro-BW really stands out (or Bisu never making a Ro8 after early 2009 ).Given that JD and Bisu already won against Stork with a Ro8 TBLS, it could only mean that Bisu vs Stork will be the final, with Bisu being the winner and Stork getting silver. | ||
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Improvement
203 Posts
My predictions: Bisu vs Sea (65/35) Hero vs Best (75/25) Flash vs Guemchi (90/10) Poor Guemchi, going to get raped for sure :/ Jaedong vs Stork (70/30) Hoping for Bisu vs Flash finals. But anything would be great tbh. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Archaeo
United States397 Posts
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 27 2016 23:43 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: At some point you have to acknowledge effort's inability to preform when it matters in the post kespa era. He's simply not the best right now despite his practice results. Umm ... he won an SSL/ASL just one year ago. Against Bisu in the finals no less. He gets knocked out early in the next two leagues and suddenly it's "inability to perform in the post kespa era"? That's asinine. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On December 28 2016 11:34 darktreb wrote: Umm ... he won an SSL/ASL just one year ago. Against Bisu in the finals no less. He gets knocked out early in the next two leagues and suddenly it's "inability to perform in the post kespa era"? That's asinine. if i were you id go to liquipedia and look at how many times he gets knocked out of online tournaments as well. out of like the 5-6 tournaments hes been in, he won 1, placed 2nd at another, and the other 4 got knocked out of the groupstages. Let's take a look here starting from most recent: ASL2: Round of 24 exit (out of 24) Thrill SL: Ro16 exit (out of 16) NalRa SL: Ro8 exit (out of 8 players) ASL1: Ro16 exit (out of 16) 41 Ranking: Ro8 exit (out of 12 players) Terror NINUS: 2nd (out of 16) 41 SL: Ro32 exit (out of 32) VANT: Winner (out of 32) | ||
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art_of_turtle
United States1183 Posts
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 28 2016 11:53 FlaShFTW wrote: if i were you id go to liquipedia and look at how many times he gets knocked out of online tournaments as well. out of like the 5-6 tournaments hes been in, he won 1, placed 2nd at another, and the other 4 got knocked out of the groupstages. Let's take a look here starting from most recent: ASL2: Round of 24 exit (out of 24) Thrill SL: Ro16 exit (out of 16) NalRa SL: Ro8 exit (out of 8 players) ASL1: Ro16 exit (out of 16) 41 Ranking: Ro8 exit (out of 12 players) Terror NINUS: 2nd (out of 16) 41 SL: Ro32 exit (out of 32) VANT: Winner (out of 32) Yeah, I don't think anyone's claiming he's been great in leagues, or even performed near his standard. But he won the most important league once, and got second in another decent league. And yeah, he lost some BO3's or round robin 3 game / dual tournaments where he was a favorite. It's not great for sure, but those are still top ~5 results out of all players. Just feels like this has turned into one of those situations where you start with a small sample size --> big narrative --> now everyone's on the lookout for the narrative, thus further amplifying it. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On December 28 2016 05:29 FlaShFTW wrote: The idea of best beating hero is so absurd in a bo5. Please go look at their winrates both in post kespa and kespa. Its not even close. Best will be fortunate to take one game off hero. Beating a rusty af jaedong in a bo1 twice doesnt tell me his pvz has improved at all. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. There was a point in I believe SPL '11 where Best had a monstrous PvZ record that was actually better than Bisu's. He was consistently beating top Zergs. Of course it is 2017 and not 2011 and ASL and not SPL but Best has demonstrated time and again the ability to defeat top Zergs. His laughable OSL vs. July and consequent slump paint a worse picture than the more recent reality. On December 28 2016 06:30 blade55555 wrote: I feel like Jaedong can beat Stork and got a nice draw. Unfortunately, no matter how much i wish was the case, I know that Jaedong still isn't in top form and hasn't had as much time as Flash to get back into it, so if they both do meet in the semifinals, I won't be surprised for a 3-0 flash .Hoping Jaedong does beat Stork and somehow surprises in the semi finals though. Someone said that JD has been playing BW much longer than has been publicized. I'll try to grab a source rn. | ||
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Varbind
Canada113 Posts
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one_step
Russian Federation3 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On December 28 2016 12:54 Varbind wrote: Keep in mind Jaedong plays last, two weeks from now. I imagine he will be pumped for this and will be in form by that time. That's true. Hope you're right. Waited 5 years for LeeSsangRok! | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
what a time | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On December 28 2016 06:02 Crisium wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/EVER2007_OSL and http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2008_Bacchus_OSL Were the only 2 ever. They also had 3/4 TBLS make the top 4, and ended as one would expect (Stork silver both). 2008 Bachhus OSL Ro8 also contains 5 of the players in ASL Season 2 Ro8! So does http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2009_Batoo_OSL ! Seriously, this top 8 is as good as any ever, even though it may be questionable how far from peak form some of them are, these could have fit in anywhere from 2007-2012 Pro BW. Only Guemchi never making a Ro8 in pro-BW really stands out. Oh, I totally forgot that Bisu was in the Ro8 of EVER as well. Thanks for catching. The most interesting thing to me is that this never happened in the MSL, even though it had a format more conducive than OSL to stacking the best players in the bracket stage. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On December 28 2016 11:53 FlaShFTW wrote: if i were you id go to liquipedia and look at how many times he gets knocked out of online tournaments as well. out of like the 5-6 tournaments hes been in, he won 1, placed 2nd at another, and the other 4 got knocked out of the groupstages. Let's take a look here starting from most recent: ASL2: Round of 24 exit (out of 24) Thrill SL: Ro16 exit (out of 16) NalRa SL: Ro8 exit (out of 8 players) ASL1: Ro16 exit (out of 16) 41 Ranking: Ro8 exit (out of 12 players) Terror NINUS: 2nd (out of 16) 41 SL: Ro32 exit (out of 32) VANT: Winner (out of 32) Ehh 120 is the top ranked WC3 player in the world and he gets knocked out of everything. If anything the guy's lacking motivation, you don't just get butterflies out of nowhere. His FP play is the only real example of someone matching up to Flash's skill level. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On December 28 2016 16:13 r33k wrote: Ehh 120 is the top ranked WC3 player in the world and he gets knocked out of everything. If anything the guy's lacking motivation, you don't just get butterflies out of nowhere. His FP play is the only real example of someone matching up to Flash's skill level. FP as in first person? I don't know if I can agree with that. Sorry if I misunderstood though, maybe you can correct me? | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
i hope stork makes it...at least to play flash | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
Flash vs Guemchi: 20-4 (Spon Matches) Flash's TvP this month: 38-8 (82.3%) 4-1 vs Bisu, 3-2 vs Best, 12-3 vs Shuttle, 2-1 vs Rain, 5-0 vs Free, 2-0 vs Snow, 6-0 vs Stork, 3-1 vs Tyson, 1-0 vs Sky | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
If it's a BO5 all the way I guess they'll use 3 from the group stages (one of them possibly twice for the 5th match) but that still means that oen map has to be added. I'm wondering if this is announced already and it's just me who didn't notice anything in this regard. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On December 29 2016 02:36 classicyellow83 wrote: Guemchi has no chance. Flash vs Guemchi: 20-4 (Spon Matches) Flash's TvP this month: 38-8 (82.3%) 4-1 vs Bisu, 3-2 vs Best, 12-3 vs Shuttle, 2-1 vs Rain, 5-0 vs Free, 2-0 vs Snow, 6-0 vs Stork, 3-1 vs Tyson, 1-0 vs Sky After all this time BeSt is still the one with the better record against Flash. 6-0 vs Stork is brutal | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On December 29 2016 03:08 endy wrote: After all this time BeSt is still the one with the better record against Flash. 6-0 vs Stork is brutal Top 3 vs Flash #1 Effort: 54-65 #2 Best: 52-71 #3 Bisu: 41-57 And yes. Flash has winning record against everyone. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On December 29 2016 03:04 PVJ wrote: Do we know anything about the map pool? If it's a BO5 all the way I guess they'll use 3 from the group stages (one of them possibly twice for the 5th match) but that still means that oen map has to be added. I'm wondering if this is announced already and it's just me who didn't notice anything in this regard. Each player picks 1 map to take out for game 1 and 5. So the map orders will be different for all groups. Far as i know Best took out CB and Hero took out Benzene. The maps are Circuit Breaker, Eye of the Storm, Benzene, and Demian. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
Everyone is gonna take out Circuit Breaker against Flash. Maybe not JD. JD loves himself some circuit breaker. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On December 29 2016 03:15 classicyellow83 wrote: Top 3 vs Flash #1 Effort: 54-65 #2 Best: 52-71 #3 Bisu: 41-57 And yes. Flash has winning record against everyone. We should keep in mind that players probably prepare differently for pre-determined MU in ASL than they do for sponsored matches. I feel like this could work in the favor of some of Flash's opponents. | ||
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shaggles
Poland108 Posts
Hero is in my opinion good candidate for the final match. I would like to see if there are any other robust counters to proxy BBS apart from 3Hatch.b.P. Hero's focus on playing vs P may work to his advantage in semis if Bisu is through. Will it do? Hope it will. I hope Guemchi will not lose the match in his head before games start. But odds are surely against him. The fourth match is the second interesting one, considered current skill level of both players. I will give the edge to JD, but that's only because I play Z. In the current form JD probably fall to Flash like 1-3. I hope not, but... And it would be fun, if Hero is able to dismantle Flash since almost no one is calling that | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
Flash: "I lost more than I won on Benzene during practice preparing for ASL. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On December 28 2016 12:29 darktreb wrote: Yeah, I don't think anyone's claiming he's been great in leagues, or even performed near his standard. But he won the most important league once, and got second in another decent league. And yeah, he lost some BO3's or round robin 3 game / dual tournaments where he was a favorite. It's not great for sure, but those are still top ~5 results out of all players. Just feels like this has turned into one of those situations where you start with a small sample size --> big narrative --> now everyone's on the lookout for the narrative, thus further amplifying it. "some bo3s or round robin" is an understatement. when you play in 8 tournaments and lose in the group stages in 6 of them, yeah, your win looks like a fluke. consistency proves results, not a random fluke win in an offline tournament. shuttle's win looks more and more like a fluke after he got smashed in groups in asl2. same with sharp. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On December 29 2016 11:28 FlaShFTW wrote: "some bo3s or round robin" is an understatement. when you play in 8 tournaments and lose in the group stages in 6 of them, yeah, your win looks like a fluke. consistency proves results, not a random fluke win in an offline tournament. shuttle's win looks more and more like a fluke after he got smashed in groups in asl2. same with sharp. It's hard to compare the two tournaments because of the vastly different player pool. Sharp and Shuttle may indeed have been the best players in ASL1 on gameday, but that is no longer the case because of the influx of TBLS and co. On the grand scale of things we can say Shuttle is lucky to have won, but to say it is a fluke is not appropriate I think. Maybe I am digging too deep into semantics, but I think you see where I'm going with this. Iris beating Bisu in game 5 on RotK or Byzantium or whatever it was and continuing to not be relevant thereafter is a fluke. ForGG becoming godlike and crushing some of the best players at the time then fading immediately after his title win was a fluke. Shuttle winning ASL1 when his playing field was relatively insignificant compared to what ASL2 offers is not a fluke, it's just fortune. | ||
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CUTtheCBC
Canada91 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11285 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
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jinyung2
Luxembourg1455 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On December 29 2016 17:13 Jealous wrote: It's hard to compare the two tournaments because of the vastly different player pool. Sharp and Shuttle may indeed have been the best players in ASL1 on gameday, but that is no longer the case because of the influx of TBLS and co. On the grand scale of things we can say Shuttle is lucky to have won, but to say it is a fluke is not appropriate I think. Maybe I am digging too deep into semantics, but I think you see where I'm going with this. Iris beating Bisu in game 5 on RotK or Byzantium or whatever it was and continuing to not be relevant thereafter is a fluke. ForGG becoming godlike and crushing some of the best players at the time then fading immediately after his title win was a fluke. Shuttle winning ASL1 when his playing field was relatively insignificant compared to what ASL2 offers is not a fluke, it's just fortune. Effort's VANT run through featured 2 super easy groups to advance from. He had to play Hiya, Zelot, and Pure in the Ro32 and still lost to Hiya. His Ro16 group was ZerO, July, and Rush and lost to ZerO but it's ZvZ so whatever. In the Round of 8 he faced Guemchi so el oh el rofl 3-1. Ro4 was a ZvZ vs ZerO so ok whatever, it's ZvZ anything can happen, and yeah, he beat Bisu 3-1. If those results weren't fluked, he should be stomping people. Seriously, 3-1 over Bisu and you can't make it out of groups anymore? That, and Bisu was probably super tilted in BoX with Zergs after an embarrassing 0-3 to Hero in the SSL11 as well. Yeah, it's a fluke from anyone who isn't a super big fanboy of EffOrt right now. For example: 41 Ranking he couldn't even get out of a group with a rusty Kal, Hiya, and a shitty TvZ in Mong. In ASL 1 he couldn't make it out of a group with mediocre PvZ free, shitty PvZ Shuttle, and meh TvZ ssak. He then lost to Bisu 1-2 in Nal_Ra which again, if 3-1 wasn't a fluke, he should have won this one. And in Thrill, he didn't even make it out of a group with Sky, Hoejja, and Sharp. I don't think I need to remind you what happened in the asl 2 either. | ||
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ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden304 Posts
This season he seems to have adapted better and changing things up a bit. | ||
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zelderan
United States163 Posts
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On December 30 2016 18:49 ThreeActPlay wrote: I'm surprised that Sea's TvP was good enough to get through that group. I'm still watching old 2012 proleague VOD's and his TvP is dreadful. Don't watch vods from 2012 then, that year was a joke for BW and players didn't take it seriously. It was just sad to see formerly great players phoning in mediocre performances while practicing 80% SC2. | ||
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slappy
United States1271 Posts
On December 28 2016 12:54 Varbind wrote: Keep in mind Jaedong plays last, two weeks from now. I imagine he will be pumped for this and will be in form by that time. I pray for this! JD certainly did look rusty. I'm still rooting for him | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On December 29 2016 03:16 classicyellow83 wrote: Each player picks 1 map to take out for game 1 and 5. So the map orders will be different for all groups. Far as i know Best took out CB and Hero took out Benzene. The maps are Circuit Breaker, Eye of the Storm, Benzene, and Demian. Eye of the Storm! Thanks. God, that will be vetoed the fuck out for many vPs I guess. Good map pool overall though, I think. Can't wait! | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On December 30 2016 02:57 FlaShFTW wrote: Effort's VANT run through featured 2 super easy groups to advance from. He had to play Hiya, Zelot, and Pure in the Ro32 and still lost to Hiya. His Ro16 group was ZerO, July, and Rush and lost to ZerO but it's ZvZ so whatever. In the Round of 8 he faced Guemchi so el oh el rofl 3-1. Ro4 was a ZvZ vs ZerO so ok whatever, it's ZvZ anything can happen, and yeah, he beat Bisu 3-1. If those results weren't fluked, he should be stomping people. Seriously, 3-1 over Bisu and you can't make it out of groups anymore? That, and Bisu was probably super tilted in BoX with Zergs after an embarrassing 0-3 to Hero in the SSL11 as well. Yeah, it's a fluke from anyone who isn't a super big fanboy of EffOrt right now. For example: 41 Ranking he couldn't even get out of a group with a rusty Kal, Hiya, and a shitty TvZ in Mong. In ASL 1 he couldn't make it out of a group with mediocre PvZ free, shitty PvZ Shuttle, and meh TvZ ssak. He then lost to Bisu 1-2 in Nal_Ra which again, if 3-1 wasn't a fluke, he should have won this one. And in Thrill, he didn't even make it out of a group with Sky, Hoejja, and Sharp. I don't think I need to remind you what happened in the asl 2 either. I wasn't talking about Effort but I guess I'll address that. I think Effort is one of the best Zergs to ever play the game and he looks incredibly impressive on stream. But in tournament I think he flubs a lot. He's just not consistent enough. I wouldn't call any win of his a fluke but I'm not surprised when he drops out either. Losing 1-2 to Bisu after going 3-1 just puts them at roughly 50%, which is what I'd expect tbh. Bisu played pretty bad in the 1-3 finals against Effort imo, didn't adapt well to Effort whereas Effort had pretty safely countered Bisu's Zealot-first aggression. | ||
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