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On January 18 2017 22:33 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated  Yup... putting 'em at #12 and #20 respectively was harsh/off, even before they made the semifinals. Jaedong at only #10 also didn't make any sense, even with only 2 months practice time... but we all know that now, right?  GuemChi deserved higher than #21 too, though with him you can at least see how someone could've thought that was okay... GC is forever underrated. Though maybe that's starting to change now.
2 months practice time? You know he was actually 424/jiko, right?
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I'm curious what people's speculative power rank top 10 would look like post-ASL. I think Jaedong and Flash as 1-2 is pretty clear.
This is controversial but I actually would still put Best over Sea. I think Best played more good Brood War than Sea did in their match, but that Sea got overwhelmingly lucky time and time again. Also controversially, I think Bisu looked incredibly weak against Sea, so much so that it wasn't primarily Sea's own skill but Bisu's surprisingly poor decisions that made for that loss.
For me it would probably be
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. Best
4. Sea
5. Guemchi/Iammong
6. Hero
7. Bisu
8. EffOrt
9. Stork
10. Light
11. Mind
12. Rush
13. Rain
EffOrt got matches in the Ro24 against two of the all-time best Zerg snipers, and so I feel he didn't get to show his true strength, even still generating the legendary EffOrt-Rain game on Circuit Breaker. Likewise Light, a renowned TvZ sniper and very good TvT player got put into a group with three Protoss in the Ro16, not getting to demonstrate his 'true strength'. Stork looked weak in all his wins and got shut down completely by Jaedong's solid play.
I believe a lot of players showed some spectacular games in the Ro24 and Ro16 but just because they didn't advance doesn't mean they aren't among the most powerful players. This is my personal power ranking of the "Lucky 13" of BW right now.
EDIT: Oh wow, I totally forgot about Last. I'd say he's definitely in the top 10 still, maybe above Stork? Definitely above Rush though.
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On January 24 2017 02:03 iopq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2017 22:33 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated Yup... putting 'em at #12 and #20 respectively was harsh/off, even before they made the semifinals. Jaedong at only #10 also didn't make any sense, even with only 2 months practice time... but we all know that now, right? GuemChi deserved higher than #21 too, though with him you can at least see how someone could've thought that was okay... GC is forever underrated. Though maybe that's starting to change now. 2 months practice time? You know he was actually 424/jiko, right?
All I know is he didn't officially retire from SC2 until November 2016.
If he was playing tons of high-level BW (aka enough high-level BW) for a long time while still officially doing professional SC2, then bully for him... he certainly saw the future, what with Evil Geniuses shutting down their SC2 team just weeks after he left.
Their loss is our gain. 
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On January 24 2017 03:29 SirKibbleX wrote:
I'm curious what people's speculative power rank top 10 would look like post-ASL. I think Jaedong and Flash as 1-2 is pretty clear.
This is controversial but I actually would still put Best over Sea. I think Best played more good Brood War than Sea did in their match, but that Sea got overwhelmingly lucky time and time again. Also controversially, I think Bisu looked incredibly weak against Sea, so much so that it wasn't primarily Sea's own skill but Bisu's surprisingly poor decisions that made for that loss.
For me it would probably be
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. Best
4. Sea
5. Guemchi/Iammong
6. Hero
7. Bisu
8. EffOrt
9. Stork
10. Light
11. Mind
12. Rush
13. Rain
EffOrt got matches in the Ro24 against two of the all-time best Zerg snipers, and so I feel he didn't get to show his true strength, even still generating the legendary EffOrt-Rain game on Circuit Breaker. Likewise Light, a renowned TvZ sniper and very good TvT player got put into a group with three Protoss in the Ro16, not getting to demonstrate his 'true strength'. Stork looked weak in all his wins and got shut down completely by Jaedong's solid play.
I believe a lot of players showed some spectacular games in the Ro24 and Ro16 but just because they didn't advance doesn't mean they aren't among the most powerful players. This is my personal power ranking of the "Lucky 13" of BW right now.
That list is certainly in the ballpark, though I'm sure some will argue over the relative placings of Best vs Sea.
Though, I wouldn't... I think a Best vs Flash final might've been a little bit closer than Sea vs Flash was. Sea played like he was scared of Flash, which while understandable, probably guarantees a loss.
Also, while I dig GuemChi and think he's terminally underrated, not sure if he's quite Top 5 yet. Top 10, sure.
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South Korea2107 Posts
Sea's psyche failed him after game 2, he was far too confident after holding that rush on Circuit Breaker and that poor mentality permeated throughout the rest of the game and then map 4 as well.
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I wouldn't put JaeDong as #2 yet though. He needs more time. Getting past some terrans BBS'ing into 9 pool and beating Stork isn't enough yet. He did put up a nice fight against FlaSh, especially in game 1, but it was clear that his play was still lacking. I'm sure he'll get there eventually but lets give him a couple of more months before that.
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On January 24 2017 05:08 StylishVODs wrote:
I wouldn't put JaeDong as #2 yet though. He needs more time. Getting past some terrans BBS'ing into 9 pool and beating Stork isn't enough yet. He did put up a nice fight against FlaSh, especially in game 1, but it was clear that his play was still lacking. I'm sure he'll get there eventually but lets give him a couple of more months before that.
Best did beat him twice, true.
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I'm also not sure if this is a 'real' thing or not, but I feel like regardless of everything else, this was a really bad league for ZvP. In the whole ASL there were 18 PvZ - of those Zerg only won 5. If you take out Jaedong's 3-0 of Stork, where Stork was obviously totally outclassed, it's only 2/15 or a 13% winrate for Z.
Honestly I think in the current meta, and given the large Protoss presence in the league, the map pool really did not work out well for Z. Maybe the pool of Z players is just too shallow with EffOrt having been eliminated early, but it really seems like ZvP is in a pretty tough place, at least on these maps. Do you guys think this is a Meta issue or just the maps, or is the current pool of Zergs really just under-powered compared to protoss?
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On January 24 2017 06:21 SirKibbleX wrote:
I'm also not sure if this is a 'real' thing or not, but I feel like regardless of everything else, this was a really bad league for ZvP. In the whole ASL there were 18 PvZ - of those Zerg only won 5. If you take out Jaedong's 3-0 of Stork, where Stork was obviously totally outclassed, it's only 2/15 or a 13% winrate for Z.
Honestly I think in the current meta, and given the large Protoss presence in the league, the map pool really did not work out well for Z. Maybe the pool of Z players is just too shallow with EffOrt having been eliminated early, but it really seems like ZvP is in a pretty tough place, at least on these maps. Do you guys think this is a Meta issue or just the maps, or is the current pool of Zergs really just under-powered compared to protoss?
No. Only Bisu has winning record against Zerg. 6 Zergs have over 60% win rate against Protoss.
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Small sample size. Don't worry about 1 tournament. And when analyzing stuff like this, you can't just take out something like the Stork vs. Jaedong series for a reason like that.
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Post ASL Rankings:
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu
Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...
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On January 24 2017 07:07 HyralGambit wrote:
Post ASL Rankings:
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu
Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...
Does Bisu deserve #5 after being completely outclassed by Sea, though.
As in, 'not even close'. 
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Germany3128 Posts
On January 24 2017 07:07 HyralGambit wrote:
Post ASL Rankings:
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu
Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...
How does everyone get to the conclusion that Jaedong should be 2nd already?
1. Flash is obvious
But why not Sea or BeSt over Jaedong? Atleast BeSt needs to be placed higher than JD after this ASL.
BeSt for example has shown us probably the best macro after Flash this season and the best games with only two big mistakes against Sea.
Sea reached the ASL finals for a reason and had the mental fortitude to defeat BeSt capitalizing on every mistake of BeSt due to his killer instinct.
You can argue that Sea managed to only advance in 2nd, defeated a horrible Bisu and then again won over a player who made terrible mistakes but JD's run also wasn't the most stellar one.
May I remind you that JD advanced 2x times in 2nd place, in both cases behind BeSt, after losing to him? He also beat a Stork who was playing even worse than Bisu did against Sea. And as said before BeSt finished the groups 2x times in 1st place and afterwards defeated hero who atleast wasn't as much of a mess as Stork and Bisu were.
I think the more appropriate Power Rank would look like this:
1. Flash
2. BeSt
3./4. Sea/Jaedong <--- and even here I would probably give it to Sea.
Now if Jaedong keeps practising as hard as he does currently he probably is gonna be 2nd, maybe even 1st, at some point again but I don't think he's quite there yet. Just because he has the potential doesn't mean he's currently stronger than some of the other players.
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EPT
