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On May 30 2016 17:13 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 02:20 Jealous wrote:On May 29 2016 18:17 chrisolo wrote:
- Remove sprite limit (there should be very little to no change in 1on1 or 2on2 scenarios and it would be really beneficial to the fastest community)
- Remove "black list" (feature which would hinder you to access the games list after refreshing it too often or rejoining the battle.net. This was already discussed earlier in the thread: wouldn't removing sprite limit affect gameplay because you could now mass Valkyrie? I think that is the strongest argument for not removing sprite limit. + Show Spoiler [Might be a dick thing to say] +On a more personal note, I really don't care about the fastest community and neither should Blizzard. How in hell would spamming Valkyries come even close to reach that limit? Two players in 1on1 will NEVER achieve as much sprites as SIX players in Fastest. I will not test it, but I would be astonished if you could mass so much Valks that you reach that sprite limit without making your ground army a joke. The only real possibility I see to mass Valks in a serious game is in a TvZ, where you could kill a lot of overlords, but remember when you build so many Valks that you reach sprite limit, the zerg will just ignore your valks and destroy you with his much superior ground forces.. And tbh I do not think one player is enough to mass enough valks to reach the sprite limit quite frankly. And why on earth would two terrans mass valks against each other in serious game? Maybe you guys should think about the actual effect on "gameplay" before you shout "GAMEPLAY CHANGER, NO GO!!!!!!!!11111". And Blizzard should care about Fastest players, because that is the biggest community on the original Battle.net US servers. You rarely (if ever) see a real competetive 1on1 game hosted there whilst at least 5-6 fastest games.
Valks hit the sprite limit because every cloud left by their missiles are an individual sprite, as well as the missile itself, on top of launching multiple missiles per salvo, all of which leave their own clouds. It has nothing to do with massing 200/200 valks. You don't even need to get close to that supply to hit sprite limit when firing with valks. It's a total of sprites on a map. Every mineral node, every geyser, every doodad (trees, temples, neutral creatures, etc.) contribute to that limit, on top of the opponent's army and units. Carriers versus valks always ends with the valks not firing correctly late game due to the sprite limit being hit, otherwise they would be a pretty reasonable counter to them.
And as a side note, only a minority of starcraft players actually log into bnet. Most people are using other servers nowadays.
And as far as the changes are concerned, it is always going to be divisive when it comes to fixing bugs that have become a part of the gameplay formula in competitive. There are going to be the camp that feels BW is sacred as it is, and should be preserved for all time in it's current state (outside of maybe QoL changes), and then the camp that feels the bugs should go so the game can be played "as it was meant to". I'd honestly rather see them fix the bugs that aren't a part of the gameplay formula right now, first. Then perhaps later they can consider those changes after collecting feedback. Better to focus on the utility aspect of this opportunity first, I think.
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On May 27 2016 19:20 SonnyC wrote:I would really like to see a fix that makes all old replays viewable in 1.16. Can that be on your list? 
Is this something that is fixable? Please inform me, so that I get let it rest and stop spamming :p
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On May 30 2016 19:59 SonnyC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 19:20 SonnyC wrote:I would really like to see a fix that makes all old replays viewable in 1.16. Can that be on your list? Is this something that is fixable? Please inform me, so that I get let it rest and stop spamming :p
Technically, anything is possible, but the amount of effort it would take to do this hurts my head to even imagine it.
On May 30 2016 17:13 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 02:20 Jealous wrote:On May 29 2016 18:17 chrisolo wrote:
- Remove sprite limit (there should be very little to no change in 1on1 or 2on2 scenarios and it would be really beneficial to the fastest community)
- Remove "black list" (feature which would hinder you to access the games list after refreshing it too often or rejoining the battle.net. This was already discussed earlier in the thread: wouldn't removing sprite limit affect gameplay because you could now mass Valkyrie? I think that is the strongest argument for not removing sprite limit. + Show Spoiler [Might be a dick thing to say] +On a more personal note, I really don't care about the fastest community and neither should Blizzard. How in hell would spamming Valkyries come even close to reach that limit? Two players in 1on1 will NEVER achieve as much sprites as SIX players in Fastest. I will not test it, but I would be astonished if you could mass so much Valks that you reach that sprite limit without making your ground army a joke. The only real possibility I see to mass Valks in a serious game is in a TvZ, where you could kill a lot of overlords, but remember when you build so many Valks that you reach sprite limit, the zerg will just ignore your valks and destroy you with his much superior ground forces.. And tbh I do not think one player is enough to mass enough valks to reach the sprite limit quite frankly. And why on earth would two terrans mass valks against each other in serious game? Maybe you guys should think about the actual effect on "gameplay" before you shout "GAMEPLAY CHANGER, NO GO!!!!!!!!11111". And Blizzard should care about Fastest players, because that is the biggest community on the original Battle.net US servers. You rarely (if ever) see a real competetive 1on1 game hosted there whilst at least 5-6 fastest games.
Actually, I don't think the Valkyrie's rockets are restricted by the sprite limit, but by the bullet limit. According to this thread, different limits are distinguished(unit limit, sprite limit, bullet limit, etc.), and the bullet limit is a measly 100.
I thought about this again and fixing this might actually change the gameplay since this occurs naturally already (right?). If so, I'll remove this from the list.
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On May 30 2016 21:00 xboi209 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 19:59 SonnyC wrote:On May 27 2016 19:20 SonnyC wrote:I would really like to see a fix that makes all old replays viewable in 1.16. Can that be on your list? Is this something that is fixable? Please inform me, so that I get let it rest and stop spamming :p Technically, anything is possible, but the amount of effort it would take to do this hurts my head to even imagine it.
Haha ok, never mind then  . Thanks for replying.
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On May 30 2016 21:00 xboi209 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 17:13 chrisolo wrote:On May 30 2016 02:20 Jealous wrote:On May 29 2016 18:17 chrisolo wrote:
- Remove sprite limit (there should be very little to no change in 1on1 or 2on2 scenarios and it would be really beneficial to the fastest community)
- Remove "black list" (feature which would hinder you to access the games list after refreshing it too often or rejoining the battle.net. This was already discussed earlier in the thread: wouldn't removing sprite limit affect gameplay because you could now mass Valkyrie? I think that is the strongest argument for not removing sprite limit. + Show Spoiler [Might be a dick thing to say] +On a more personal note, I really don't care about the fastest community and neither should Blizzard. How in hell would spamming Valkyries come even close to reach that limit? Two players in 1on1 will NEVER achieve as much sprites as SIX players in Fastest. I will not test it, but I would be astonished if you could mass so much Valks that you reach that sprite limit without making your ground army a joke. The only real possibility I see to mass Valks in a serious game is in a TvZ, where you could kill a lot of overlords, but remember when you build so many Valks that you reach sprite limit, the zerg will just ignore your valks and destroy you with his much superior ground forces.. And tbh I do not think one player is enough to mass enough valks to reach the sprite limit quite frankly. And why on earth would two terrans mass valks against each other in serious game? Maybe you guys should think about the actual effect on "gameplay" before you shout "GAMEPLAY CHANGER, NO GO!!!!!!!!11111". And Blizzard should care about Fastest players, because that is the biggest community on the original Battle.net US servers. You rarely (if ever) see a real competetive 1on1 game hosted there whilst at least 5-6 fastest games. Actually, I don't think the Valkyrie's rockets are restricted by the sprite limit, but by the bullet limit. According to this thread, different limits are distinguished(unit limit, sprite limit, bullet limit, etc.), and the bullet limit is a measly 100.
Which would even validify the request even more, because it would not "touch the gameplay" (which I still highly doubt it would do even without this point).
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On May 31 2016 01:16 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 21:00 xboi209 wrote:On May 30 2016 17:13 chrisolo wrote:On May 30 2016 02:20 Jealous wrote:On May 29 2016 18:17 chrisolo wrote:
- Remove sprite limit (there should be very little to no change in 1on1 or 2on2 scenarios and it would be really beneficial to the fastest community)
- Remove "black list" (feature which would hinder you to access the games list after refreshing it too often or rejoining the battle.net. This was already discussed earlier in the thread: wouldn't removing sprite limit affect gameplay because you could now mass Valkyrie? I think that is the strongest argument for not removing sprite limit. + Show Spoiler [Might be a dick thing to say] +On a more personal note, I really don't care about the fastest community and neither should Blizzard. How in hell would spamming Valkyries come even close to reach that limit? Two players in 1on1 will NEVER achieve as much sprites as SIX players in Fastest. I will not test it, but I would be astonished if you could mass so much Valks that you reach that sprite limit without making your ground army a joke. The only real possibility I see to mass Valks in a serious game is in a TvZ, where you could kill a lot of overlords, but remember when you build so many Valks that you reach sprite limit, the zerg will just ignore your valks and destroy you with his much superior ground forces.. And tbh I do not think one player is enough to mass enough valks to reach the sprite limit quite frankly. And why on earth would two terrans mass valks against each other in serious game? Maybe you guys should think about the actual effect on "gameplay" before you shout "GAMEPLAY CHANGER, NO GO!!!!!!!!11111". And Blizzard should care about Fastest players, because that is the biggest community on the original Battle.net US servers. You rarely (if ever) see a real competetive 1on1 game hosted there whilst at least 5-6 fastest games. Actually, I don't think the Valkyrie's rockets are restricted by the sprite limit, but by the bullet limit. According to this thread, different limits are distinguished(unit limit, sprite limit, bullet limit, etc.), and the bullet limit is a measly 100. Which would even validify the request even more, because it would not "touch the gameplay" (which I still highly doubt it would do even without this point).
Yea if this is true then I was working on false knowledge and think that raising the sprite limit would be a welcome change ^^ Keep the bullet limit, raise the sprites.
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I thought about this again and fixing this might actually change the gameplay since this occurs naturally already (right?). If so, I'll remove this from the list.
as a player who actually played this game a little competitively, if i would get the chance to remove something from the game it would be this bug, because it very often costs the game instantly. having this bug in place already changed the gameplay in a very bad way.
e.g.: zvt on Dantes peak. if zerg goes 3 hatch muta vs 1 rax cc into bio (standard builds), he has to defend his 3rd base against a pre-lurker attack. Now if you take your 3rd base in bottom right main and block the ramp with 2 lurker eggs while he is attacking it, you 90% lose that base because this ramp (together with 3 other ramps on dantes peak) has this bug and your lurkers will happily wander into that spot and make it easy for terran to attack them/runby, while you as zerg have no means until 3-4 base defiler to get ovi drop in order to save them (if you play standard).
Because of that i avoid playing on dante at all cost.
zvp on FS. so far ive seen like 10+ games where protoss manages to get his units stuck in that 12 o clock ramp (either because of probes or reaver shots), all games where protoss instantly lost the game because they lost important bases/fights before they even could manage to get an extra shuttle out......
for the love of god, please include it into your list
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Sprite, bullet, etc. limit removals.
On the balance side: I`d welcome if scouts would have their speed upgrade inbuilt, or at least if they would be a bit faster, with the upgrade still available. It would make them a much more viable unit.
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On May 31 2016 02:45 Bakuryu wrote:Show nested quote + I thought about this again and fixing this might actually change the gameplay since this occurs naturally already (right?). If so, I'll remove this from the list. as a player who actually played this game a little competitively, if i would get the chance to remove something from the game it would be this bug, because it very often costs the game instantly. having this bug in place already changed the gameplay in a very bad way. e.g.: zvt on Dantes peak. if zerg goes 3 hatch muta vs 1 rax cc into bio (standard builds), he has to defend his 3rd base against a pre-lurker attack. Now if you take your 3rd base in bottom right main and block the ramp with 2 lurker eggs while he is attacking it, you 90% lose that base because this ramp (together with 3 other ramps on dantes peak) has this bug and your lurkers will happily wander into that spot and make it easy for terran to attack them/runby, while you as zerg have no means until 3-4 base defiler to get ovi drop in order to save them (if you play standard). Because of that i avoid playing on dante at all cost. zvp on FS. so far ive seen like 10+ games where protoss manages to get his units stuck in that 12 o clock ramp (either because of probes or reaver shots), all games where protoss instantly lost the game because they lost important bases/fights before they even could manage to get an extra shuttle out...... for the love of god, please include it into your list
I quoted the wrong post actually, I meant to quote the post about sunken range. I just modified the post now.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On May 31 2016 07:44 Bakuryu wrote:
ah, my bad xD
It'd be fascinating to get a list of known bugs that cause imbalances on existing maps. These days they seem pretty minimal with the current map pool.
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lol smart casting would break templar, vessels and ghosts. Also, I don't agree with giving scouts their speed bonus inherently because 1 base stargate scout into 3 gate goon is a solid cheese strategy as far as i know.
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people who are super good with SK Terran will be much stronger against zerg.
Same for PvZ using storms.
We might even able to see some corsair dweb plays.
this should be somewhat edited because siege mode, burrow, stimpack and so on need to be cast all units at the same time.
Good thing that it's not like SC2 where you can hotkey different units together and using spells.
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On June 09 2016 12:34 B-royal wrote:
lol smart casting would break templar, vessels and ghosts. Also, I don't agree with giving scouts their speed bonus inherently because 1 base stargate scout into 3 gate goon is a solid cheese strategy as far as i know.
I don't know the math behind it, but do fast scouts outrun scourge? Are they faster or equal to corsair?
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On June 09 2016 15:08 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 12:34 B-royal wrote:
lol smart casting would break templar, vessels and ghosts. Also, I don't agree with giving scouts their speed bonus inherently because 1 base stargate scout into 3 gate goon is a solid cheese strategy as far as i know. I don't know the math behind it, but do fast scouts outrun scourge? Are they faster or equal to corsair?
Apparently upgraded scouts are as fast as corsairs, which are as fast as scourge.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Unit_Movement_Speed
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Smart casting would also ruin the ability to cast two spells next to eachother, like darkswarm or storm. And imagine science vessels coming in and using spam irradiate so easily without deselecting the group and not having to move the mouse around. The reaction time to avoid scourges woudl also have been improved.
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On June 09 2016 16:46 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 15:08 Jealous wrote:On June 09 2016 12:34 B-royal wrote:
lol smart casting would break templar, vessels and ghosts. Also, I don't agree with giving scouts their speed bonus inherently because 1 base stargate scout into 3 gate goon is a solid cheese strategy as far as i know. I don't know the math behind it, but do fast scouts outrun scourge? Are they faster or equal to corsair? Apparently upgraded scouts are as fast as corsairs, which are as fast as scourge. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Unit_Movement_Speed
Thanks! I don't think that scouts would necessarily replace Corsair nor would they become OMG OP in conjunction with any Dragoon rush (not sure if you were joking), because at the end of the day one Spore or 2-3 Hydra pretty much kill the much more expensive, much longer to be build Scout. But, that's neither here nor there, I certainly don't support them popping out with the speed upgrade added on. There is a certain level of disrespect when you show your opponent your slow scouts
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http://bwreplays.com/3grdp
Upgrade bug. @~20:15 Brown Zerg @5 o'clock starts Overlord drop upgrade, and it gets stuck on the last bar for a minute. This has happened to me before with other upgrades too.
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On June 27 2016 14:40 Jealous wrote:http://bwreplays.com/3grdpUpgrade bug. @~20:15 Brown Zerg @5 o'clock starts Overlord drop upgrade, and it gets stuck on the last bar for a minute. This has happened to me before with other upgrades too.
i think this is some hack,it happened to me on fish 2 times i needed ol speed and it freezes on the half,and both players were going for dts ...
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EPT
