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Gecko - I agree with your input and you pointed out something I forgot to mention:
For me picking up the game after a few years off was difficult. I couldn't remember how to fix all those silly issues, how to host games, how to get games, how to color fix, etc. THIS is one of the biggest problems beginners have. Now I imagined that moving the current ICCUP server to TL management would provide a big push to tech people that would be empowered to chime in and help.
I understand tournaments and leagues don't have a big impact, but if you wanted to pick BW up after a Tasteless cast, you'd be bombarded with issues. It's not the graphics or the hard mechanics, though they count as well, but it's this difficult process of settings thing up.
Again, good discussion here, let's see what other people think. So far I see that 2 launchers won't be updated, which is a tragedy imo.
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well, im likely to agree with you, but we will be nagging at the server ownership to switch it to the new patch. Perhaps ICC will make the switch, but i'd be a fool to make promises here, so i'm not gonna do that.
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On March 18 2016 03:31 Cele wrote:
well, im likely to agree with you, but we will be nagging at the server ownership to switch it to the new patch. Perhaps ICC will make the switch, but i'd be a fool to make promises here, so i'm not gonna do that.
Glad to hear there are ICCUP members with a progressive mindset. This thread clearly showed the hindrances of your position and your motivation is laudable.
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On March 17 2016 15:31 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2016 11:21 Probemicro wrote:
(...)
not sure about how it will influence the mapmaking community (with all this talk of EUD) but i assume they will adapt as well. so i don't get why this is even a thread. It's a thread, because xboi, rightfully so, expects that it'll be a problem to adapt for ICCup and other parts of the foreign scene.
from my impressions of the response on this thread it seems to be mostly an executive issue (iccup owner slow in adopting the patch) than any adminstrative/technical issue. that guy posts or reads this forum? if not this thread is just another ranting pitstop.
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My personal opinion on a possible patch:
1) if blizzard fixes all bugs like icons and colours and adds support for the new OSs it would be already huge since nearly all people (who dont visit sites like tl or were part of the BW-scene before SC2) are not williing to search for a fix or download this and that and test it and probably do soemthing similar again
2) build in lan latency is a MUST!
around 2 months ago I played some games on iccup and it was awful to play while having "lan latency" with the launcher. It was awful to play against russians and south american people and I think 1 central server won't work
3) reintroduce ladders on public servers + antihack
without ladders on local servers people will be forced to dl stuff to get access on private servers. Yes it may be easy and yes it doesn't take much effort to get access on private server but it's 2016 and people are not willing to deal with stuff like this. They prefer to download "f2p" titles with better graphics, bigger playerbase and not having to deal with additional steps.
Furthermore the chance to have latency problems is higher with private servers that hosts games/conncets people from 2 different continents.
4) Introduce a "start matchmaker/play" button for the ladder, people are used to this and they are lazy
5) Implement configurable hotkeys
6) Add more resolution options
All in all I don't see any (global) future for BW with centralised private servers due to latency. The only way to attract people to start playing BW is to make it as easy accessible as possible. What peopel also tend to forget ist, that starcraft was also huge because of the benefits battle.net offered and not only because of the game itself
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I don't think blizzard wants to spend a bunch of money to patch a game for private servers, they are highly aware of fish and iccup. Maybe they'll start patching when they have their own server going.
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On March 18 2016 17:21 AmstAff wrote:
around 2 months ago I played some games on iccup and it was awful to play while having "lan latency" with the launcher. It was awful to play against russians and south american people and I think 1 central server won't work
Games itself are hosted p2p, LanLat has nothing to do with it. The lag you experienced comes from the long distances, not from ICCup itself. If ICCup would be laggy for you, you couldn't join a game, or have to wait a significant amount of time to switch channels.
Also, the public Battle.net ladders won't really work, because they'd need to constantly screen for hackers, abusers and win bots.
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On March 18 2016 17:21 AmstAff wrote:
4) Introduce a "start matchmaker/play" button for the ladder, people are used to this and they are lazy
Birdie wanted automated matchmaking for the Starserver and iirc it was quite a bit of work to code and find the right rating system (elo, glicko 2) with regards to the small user base to make it viable. I'm not very much into that sort of stuff, but my impression was, the potential benefits were not necessarily worth the effort? Im not sure. In any case, having automated matchmaking should be a later project for any private server, it's a good thing to pursue, but a basic icc/fish system would do for starters.
@idea of Blizzard making the official bnet server a good place to play again: I don't think that will happen for the reasons already pointed out by Gecko. Of course Blizzard is very capable of doing that, but you have to ask yourself, how much money will they make on a patch for BW (new sold copies) and how much effort (manpower, first of all) does that warrant?
Setting up a well integrated and supported server and keeping it that way needs personnel for support, basically what your ICCup or fish admin's do in their free time, but as paid employees. I don't see that being a reasonable calculation for Blizzard.
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I think we might have to pick up this thread once we see the changes, then come up with some game plan. Just my 2 cents. I now realize it's useless to start something without seeing what Blizzard thinks. These speculations, though based on common sense, are just that.
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Cele what Birdie did for the community? I like him, but he should be perm banned here, for his project.
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On March 19 2016 16:53 mca64Launcher_ wrote:
Cele what Birdie did for the community? I like him, but he should be perm banned here, for his project.
What, why?
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For me main problem is regarding to p2p connection establishment on bn. Centralised server is, like some people mentioned, troublesome, especial for private servers, due to client-server-client distance issues. For me the best would be a kind of hybrid system, where game lobby is maintained by central server, but game itself is p2p (where stuff like ip and ports is solved by server when game is starting). It can solve one of the biggest problems with sc:bw multiplayer - players without public ip cannot make games. I believe it can be really easy solved, especial that there are even now 'glitches' like latency break, which allow us to maintain it without public ips. But of course, it's pain in the ass, cause you have to find player on channel first, and seeing it on iccup, people look like they are shy or smth, to answer your notification on channel.
If someone in future would willing to make new server, working with newest path, and there will be good reasons for doing so, I can support project in terms of helping in preparation of responsive website (angularjs / knockout). I can also help with backend service, but here I'm rather used to .net solutions and have rather small knowledge of java or php, which may be better options for cost accounting. Anyway project will need people like xboi or mca, because of they strong knowledge how to deal with extensions for sc:bw itself.
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I agree that Birdie did more harm than good. If he straight up lied about it, if he just imagined a server, nothing would be different. He didn't share anything whatsoever that could be picked up by anyone else nor did he announce his situation in a timely fashion. I believe it was after a year and a bit when he finally said he's giving up.
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Did they get rid of the bots that fill up the custom games list yet?
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I think I will stick with 1.16.1 as it is running so smooth nowadays. Only when ICCup switches to the new patch, I will switch, too. And since Gecko is probably right that this is really unlikely to happen, I won't switch at all.
This means Goodbye to Fastest on USEast and USWest though 
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On March 22 2016 18:10 chrisolo wrote:I think I will stick with 1.16.1 as it is running so smooth nowadays. Only when ICCup switches to the new patch, I will switch, too. And since Gecko is probably right that this is really unlikely to happen, I won't switch at all. This means Goodbye to Fastest on USEast and USWest though
iCCup needs to follow Fish or it will die. If the patch is good Fish is 100% going to switch. iCCup's population is less than 5% of Fish's population, which recently got attention in Korea too. If Fish switches, everybody on iCCup that was considering Fish will just dump iCCup as well as all the Koreans there, and possibly all the high level players.
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I think the development team is learning alot from the mistakes they did in D2 and WC3, currently they are working on a fix for them and i think they wont do the same mistake with BW, hopefully.
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What exactly them did wrong?
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On March 22 2016 23:28 mca64Launcher_ wrote:
What exactly them did wrong?
Sooooo many bugs. More D2 bots than ever, the Mac installer was broken for two weeks, Chinese players are having compatibility problems, merc (idk what that is tbh) disappears randomly, there's a new CD key stealing exploit similar to StarCraft, people are getting two weeks bans during transfers, it's just bad.
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WinterViewbot420 are you korean? Who are you?
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EPT
