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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On April 14 2016 19:15 Probemicro wrote: if they did something really stupid you can always play old 1.16.1 on iccup/fish... if they don't do aynthing really stupid, i think ICCup and Fish will switch to the new patch (; | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On April 14 2016 19:10 Endymion wrote: lol? All the merc change did was fuck up the UI a bit, and that only lasted all of two weeks. No reason for this kind of pessimism. in before it kills broodwar like the merc change will hurt this upcoming d2 ladder reset... | ||
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Bareleon
371 Posts
http://us.battle.net/en/forum/topic/20743264164?page=1#20 "Compatibility and bug fixing" | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On April 15 2016 05:54 Bareleon wrote: A blue responded to me. http://us.battle.net/en/forum/topic/20743264164?page=1#20 "Compatibility and bug fixing" Yah. Doesn't sound like there'll be any balance changes, even small ones. | ||
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Jealous
10405 Posts
On April 15 2016 08:59 [[Starlight]] wrote: Yah. Doesn't sound like there'll be any balance changes, even small ones. Great news ^^ Those are really the only changes that are necessary IMO. Matchmaking and removing hackers and all that would be nice, but that is not as important as making this fantastic game more accessible to all. As long as by bugs they don't mean something like Mutalisk stack or Valkyrie sprite limit o: | ||
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Shinokuki
United States928 Posts
On April 15 2016 08:59 [[Starlight]] wrote: Yah. Doesn't sound like there'll be any balance changes, even small ones. hope its not those units get stuck, reaver scrab, muta bugs.. It will ruin the game | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1290 Posts
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Jealous
10405 Posts
On April 15 2016 11:17 LaStScan wrote: I want the emp animation to be faster. Isn't it true if the Arbiter already queued the spell, then EMP does not affect recall? So recall can hit before Recall is completed, but Arbiter recalls anyway? There was a great gif somewhere of this happening at 12 o' clock FS, made me laugh xD <3 Arbiters | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On April 15 2016 11:15 Shinokuki wrote: hope its not those units get stuck, reaver scrab, muta bugs.. It will ruin the game How in the world would fixing the 'dragoons get stuck and freak out' bug ruin the game? | ||
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Jealous
10405 Posts
On April 15 2016 13:23 [[Starlight]] wrote: How in the world would fixing the 'dragoons get stuck and freak out' bug ruin the game? Right now the Dragoons demand good control in order to be effectively used against FD. If we stop punishing people for poor micro that leads to bugging out, then Dragoon micro becomes easier, potentially throwing the balance of this early game interaction off center. A better example in my opinion is Goliath vs. Carrier. Part of the viability of Carrier is the ability to abuse ramps because Goliaths suck at getting up and down them. If they move fluidly, Carriers' viability in some situations is now greatly diminished. If you fix Dragoon, you have to fix Goliath. These fixes impact gameplay. Reaver scarab does not even warrant mentioning, look at SC2:BW. Brood War gameplay should not be touched on the fundamental level, because what we have now is too perfect to risk losing on unforeseen circumstances. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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Jealous
10405 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:38 _Animus_ wrote: yeah, its like saying that the guardian and reaver suicide into static defence is also good for the game. Ive seen pro's on stream lose game because of shitty goon AI on ramp, its so silly. If pros having trouble with goon ai what about the regular player? Another thing is the game is very old, player base constantly decreases, which will affect skill level in time. If the game doesnt become more user friendly it cant hold itself in the future, where casual gamer wouldnt even want to do shit with such hard game. You mean user-friendly like SC2? We see what came from that. I stand by my words, to change any gameplay aspect of Brood War would be a grave error. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:56 Jealous wrote: You mean user-friendly like SC2? We see what came from that. I stand by my words, to change any gameplay aspect of Brood War would be a grave error. Being somewhat pedantic; however I'd go with "could" instead, with the caveat that it there is a much greater chance of really messing stuff up than there is getting any benefit. While improbable, I don't think it can be known for certain that you couldn't have a change work out for the better. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:56 Jealous wrote: You mean user-friendly like SC2? We see what came from that. I stand by my words, to change any gameplay aspect of Brood War would be a grave error. I don't like SC2 (at all), but at the same time I can't buy into the notion that you can't even fix bugs in BW for fear of altering (improving?) gameplay in any way. If you lose a game due to some sh!tty bug like a unit getting stuck on a ramp, you don't say to yourself, "Well gee, I love how the bugs contribute to a certain person's static idea of what perfect balance is"... nope. Instead you go, "F**king stupid bug, FIX IT!!!".  You can't see BW as some sort of holy untouchable shrine of perfection, because it isn't, and never was.... they made roughly 100 balance changes to the game over time, and probably would've made still more if it had made sense resources-wise to keep balance-patching a game that'd already been out for three years as of 1.08 (the last balance patch). I love BW too, but to say you can't fix obvious bugs that no one likes because of some alleged perfection that isn't really there is definitely taking things too far. Can you imagine someone as of the 1.00 patch (i.e. day of release) saying, "BW is perfect and untouchable as is, any changes at all, even bug fixes, will ruin the game"?? We would've ended up with a mediocre game frozen in time, that almost no one would've cared about even a couple of years after release... much less 18 years as it is now. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On April 15 2016 14:56 Jealous wrote: You mean user-friendly like SC2? We see what came from that. I stand by my words, to change any gameplay aspect of Brood War would be a grave error. This is the same attitude of conservatives banning all kinds of things they dont approve of. Gay marriage? Nope! Womans rights? Nope. The good old times when everything was better. You dont want no change. Change == bad. Always. It is really bad to just shut your eyes and scream "DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!!111 ITS PURRFECT!". I am not saying they shouldnt be changing something, but you need to be more open instead of just blindly shooting every idea down. Think first. Maybe good can come from it. The best thing about a balance patch right now is that we can simply refuse to play it. You dont like it? Play on a different server. But sometimes change can bring good things as well. You should not condemn it before you have actually seen it. | ||
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shin ken
Germany614 Posts
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Jealous
10405 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:50 [[Starlight]] wrote: I don't like SC2, but at the same time I can't buy the notion that you can't even fix bugs in BW for fear of altering (improving?) gameplay in any way. If you lose a game due to some sh!tty bug like a unit getting stuck on a ramp, you don't say to yourself, "Well gee, I love how the bugs contribute to a certain person's static idea of what perfect balance is"... nope. Instead you go, "F**king stupid bug, FIX IT!!!". You can't see BW as some sort of holy untouchable shrine of perfection, because it isn't, and never was.... they made roughly 100 balance changes to the game over time, and probably would've made still more if it had made sense resources-wise to keep balance-patching a game that'd already been out for three years as of 1.08 (the last balance patch). I love BW too, but to say you can't fix obvious bugs that no one likes because of some alleged perfection that isn't really there is definitely taking things too far. Can you imagine someone as of the 1.00 patch (i.e. day of release) saying, "BW is perfect and untouchable as is, any changes at all, even bug fixes, will ruin the game"?? We would've ended up with a mediocre game frozen in time, that almost no one would've cared about even a couple of years after release, much less 18 years as it is now. The last balance patch was made in 2001 (1.08). All of the developments in the game since then are based on a static foundation, which has seen MU balance shift, strategies become superior and then inferior, so on and so forth. I will go ahead and say that this is the closest thing there has been to perfect balance in RTS (even in games where the factions are largely homogenous, one is almost always preferred). We are going to jeopardize this pinnacle of balance for the sake of making it easier for people to move some units around? This effectively decreases the skill ceiling of the game, IMO. Bisu's Dragoon micro vs. Flash is impressive because everyone knows Dragoons are retarded. Free's bust against FBH (iirc) was an achievement because his control of Dragoons and Scarab targeting made him achieve something no one would have otherwise expected. If those plays become commonplace because of fixes made to the Dragoon, those plays lose their luster and the viability of certain strategies will inevitably shift. That is not something I would be willing to risk. When a person encounters a difficulty in the game, they should think "Am I doing this the best possible way, and if not, how can I improve it?" NOT "It's broken, fix it." Isn't that what the SC2 community commonly complains about in their scene right now: people crying loud enough to have things changed before a possible work-around, counter strategy, or implementation of "underpowered" units is discovered. This translates into Brood War as "get better." Why did Progamers never come out and say that the Dragoon needs to be fixed, as far as I recall? Do you think we know better than them? Or perhaps they have accepted and learned how to make the best of the Dragoon's somewhat faulty pathing, knowing that it is what it is, and made it a staple unit for Protoss in the majority of their games? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4457 Posts
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shin ken
Germany614 Posts
On April 15 2016 15:51 RoomOfMush wrote: This is the same attitude of conservatives banning all kinds of things they dont approve of. Gay marriage? Nope! Womans rights? Nope. The good old times when everything was better. You dont want no change. Change == bad. Always. It is really bad to just shut your eyes and scream "DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!!111 ITS PURRFECT!". I am not saying they shouldnt be changing something, but you need to be more open instead of just blindly shooting every idea down. Think first. Maybe good can come from it. The best thing about a balance patch right now is that we can simply refuse to play it. You dont like it? Play on a different server. But sometimes change can bring good things as well. You should not condemn it before you have actually seen it. You must be a troll right? Since 2001 pro gamers dedicated their lives to this game, never expecting anything to get fixed ever and just getting good with the tools the game gave them and something incredible beautiful came out of it. And now in 20-fucking-16, you, random TL-user #9000 come along and want it changed. No sir, if you think that, you simply don't "get" BW and never loved it. Go play another game with perfect unit pathing. At any rate, another thread has mutated into the retarted monthly balance discussion. It's a shame because that clearly wasn't the intend if the OP. | ||
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