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First prize is impressive.
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On December 07 2013 01:42 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:28 Antisocialmunky wrote:
LIGHT THE SAYLE SIGNAL, we need some English Commentary for this :D
sup yeah, I'm gonna cast this as much as possible (aka it's not on weekdays like the SPL KotH...)
Woot! This is greeeeat news.
Can't wait to watch these games 
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This is exciting  is there a list of players already? I hope bisu plays in ssl 9.
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On December 06 2013 16:06 hacklebeast wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wrclp4C.gif) pimp slap some bitches
Can anyone tell me what game this was from?
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On December 08 2013 05:39 traceurling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 03:31 miercat wrote:On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:
I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up.
Not even close. Difference in macro ability (e.g. just putting SCVs to mine immediately) is, and was, actually game deciding in many games, at all levels. If you lack macro ability, it's not just the cases of a "few seconds." It's the case of a quantitative amount of lost potential resources mined, over the course of an entire game. Which, depending on the difference in macro ability between players, can potentially affect essentially every other aspect of the game, in a significant manner (e.g. timing, unit composition, number of units, number of expos, upgrades, etc). A small advantage in BW, will often not stay a small advantage, it will often snowball, and become potentially decisive. Referencing an earlier post on a similar topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430736¤tpage=8#148 Remember that game where a misrally by jaedong led to three drones blocking 50 supply of army in his base? That was hilarious Also personally I like BW's graphics
Just imagining that Jaedong's career as progamer could've ended have he lost that game. Matchfixing allegations will be flying all over the place. But then again, perhaps we may see him playing BW in a Chinese tourney not so far distant 
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On December 08 2013 14:15 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 05:39 traceurling wrote:On December 08 2013 03:31 miercat wrote:On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:
I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up.
Not even close. Difference in macro ability (e.g. just putting SCVs to mine immediately) is, and was, actually game deciding in many games, at all levels. If you lack macro ability, it's not just the cases of a "few seconds." It's the case of a quantitative amount of lost potential resources mined, over the course of an entire game. Which, depending on the difference in macro ability between players, can potentially affect essentially every other aspect of the game, in a significant manner (e.g. timing, unit composition, number of units, number of expos, upgrades, etc). A small advantage in BW, will often not stay a small advantage, it will often snowball, and become potentially decisive. Referencing an earlier post on a similar topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430736¤tpage=8#148 Remember that game where a misrally by jaedong led to three drones blocking 50 supply of army in his base? That was hilarious Also personally I like BW's graphics Just imagining that Jaedong's career as progamer could've ended have he lost that game. Matchfixing allegations will be flying all over the place. But then again, perhaps we may see him playing BW in a Chinese tourney not so far distant
No one would ever dare to carry out match-fixing in such a spectacular way though.
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On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 15:57 vOdToasT wrote:On December 07 2013 15:32 BigFan wrote:On December 07 2013 15:10 vOdToasT wrote:On December 07 2013 12:34 9-BiT wrote:On December 07 2013 10:50 Shinokuki wrote:On December 07 2013 10:14 Xiphos wrote:On December 07 2013 10:00 zezamer wrote:On December 07 2013 01:05 algue wrote:On December 06 2013 23:39 Clbull wrote:
[quote]
The large company that surprises everyone?
Valve Corporation
Then it turns out Gabe Newell has secretly hired some ex-Brood War developers and are developing a free-to-play spiritual successor to Brood War that will go into closed beta later this year. Their sponsorship of SSL9 serves only to promote their new game.
TeamLiquid.net implodes, Blizzard fires a lawsuit at Valve, r/starcraft on reddit shuts down, Fomos and PlayXP denounce Starcraft 2 and David Kim, Korean players from both SC2 and LoL vow to switch en masse to Valve's new game and KeSPA signs an agreement with Valve to make it a Proleague 2014 - 2015 title to phase out SC2 entirely. Dream Scenario Last night I dreamed of playing BW with updated graphics, this can't be a coincidence. You guys don't know how easy it is to update BW's graphics. They just need to add a few pixels into their models in order to render it into a higher definition and that's it. Its literally just one month job for a team of 7 to complete. But Blizzard just won't fucking do it. I bet that if they released BW with SC2 matchmaking, higher pixelated graphics, port-forwarding, and perhaps SC2's observer tools, ALL of their bad reps will dissipate. And all of those "features" takes 2 months maximum to introduce. Blizzard CEO should go back to business school 101 because he is seriously missing some great business opportunities here of high profits and low costs. Like holy crap, I would pay monthly fee to get on that server. The problem really is that "casuals" ( the new generation of sc2 players) probably don't want that. Imagine going from 1 hotkey to macro to 7 hotkey to macro while stil using 1a2a3a consecutively. They just don't get why thats necessarry.. Of course we absolutely love it and we know bw's depth and its materpiece but sc2 players dont. I think fish/iccup/old bw veterans will buy that asap but not the new generation. I think it will be like 40k players total SC2 players aren't retarded, contrary to popular belief, if I can understand why 12 units per control group I'm pretty sure anyone can. You're wrong. The average SC2 player prefers unlimited selection and auto mine. he makes a good point. They aren't retarded lol. They have more preference with a higher unit count per control group. According to one of BW's programmers, 12 was done so that you can't just select everything at once with it, to allow smaller battles and more strategy since you have more control. I see his point but I doubt you can pull that off with SCII tbh. 24-36 per control group would've been a much better idea between the two imo ^^ Having said that, I would prefer doesn't get updated graphics. I grew up playing it with the current graphics and if someone needs to have ultra graphics before they even try out a game that is considered legendary, then maybe they shouldn't try it in the first place lol I didn't say they are retarded. I meant that they do not see the value of manual mining and limited unit selection. ya, I didn't think you said that since that generalization across the SCII community would be rather big lol. Well, limited unit selection, I agree with you but I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up. I think I've even seen some idle SCVs from Flash in one of his games and wondered why they weren't mining lol. It's possible that some of them (keep in mind some BW players switched to SCII as well) are aware of at least the limited unit selection value but don't care as much because a) they still have BW and b) it's a lot less intensive so if you want a game where it's easier to do stuff like moving a 100+ supply army after an exhausting day, SCII fits that well. Personally, I like both and can see both of the values. BW makes me feel like I'm working for the win(if I end up winning lol) and SCII allows me to just sit back and relax since it's a lot easier to play from a mechanics perspective. Still doesn't mean I won't rage against colossi or arbiters though lol >.>
see sc2 fans don't get this.Manually dragging your scv/drone/probe? haha hey lets factor in manually doing 4z5z6z7z8z9z or 5s6s7s8s9s0s or using f2f3f4f5 key. lets not forget u gotta 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a. You factor all of this in and you have players who vary and who are bonjwa. This is what differentiates players from players. Thats why you have jaedong who has been dominant for 2-3 years because he was masterful in those categories as well as other categories. We fans appreciate just how intense and tough it is to execute that. its like how on the hell did he micro 2 groups of mutas while 3m4m5m using 1a2a and expanding
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 08 2013 05:39 traceurling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 03:31 miercat wrote:On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:
I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up.
Not even close. Difference in macro ability (e.g. just putting SCVs to mine immediately) is, and was, actually game deciding in many games, at all levels. If you lack macro ability, it's not just the cases of a "few seconds." It's the case of a quantitative amount of lost potential resources mined, over the course of an entire game. Which, depending on the difference in macro ability between players, can potentially affect essentially every other aspect of the game, in a significant manner (e.g. timing, unit composition, number of units, number of expos, upgrades, etc). A small advantage in BW, will often not stay a small advantage, it will often snowball, and become potentially decisive. Referencing an earlier post on a similar topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430736¤tpage=8#148 Remember that game where a misrally by jaedong led to three drones blocking 50 supply of army in his base? That was hilarious Also personally I like BW's graphics
hehe ya I remember that one.
On December 08 2013 03:31 miercat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:
I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up.
Not even close. Difference in macro ability (e.g. just putting SCVs to mine immediately) is, and was, actually game deciding in many games, at all levels. If you lack macro ability, it's not just the cases of a "few seconds." It's the case of a quantitative amount of lost potential resources mined, over the course of an entire game. Which, depending on the difference in macro ability between players, can potentially affect essentially every other aspect of the game, in a significant manner (e.g. timing, unit composition, number of units, number of expos, upgrades, etc). A small advantage in BW, will often not stay a small advantage, it will often snowball, and become potentially decisive. Referencing an earlier post on a similar topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430736¤tpage=8#148
yes, I'm aware that not putting SCVs to mine right away will mean you lose some minerals. I was mostly referring to missing it once or twice and not missing it like 20 times over the course of a game. It's also not like your opponent will always get them to mine right away either so if you miss a couple and he does as well, it balances out. Obviously, you don't want to miss any lol. Either way, you can always make up with better micro in an engagement in BW.
On December 08 2013 15:07 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 16:15 BigFan wrote:On December 07 2013 15:57 vOdToasT wrote:On December 07 2013 15:32 BigFan wrote:On December 07 2013 15:10 vOdToasT wrote:On December 07 2013 12:34 9-BiT wrote:On December 07 2013 10:50 Shinokuki wrote:On December 07 2013 10:14 Xiphos wrote:On December 07 2013 10:00 zezamer wrote:On December 07 2013 01:05 algue wrote:
[quote]
Dream Scenario Last night I dreamed of playing BW with updated graphics, this can't be a coincidence. You guys don't know how easy it is to update BW's graphics. They just need to add a few pixels into their models in order to render it into a higher definition and that's it. Its literally just one month job for a team of 7 to complete. But Blizzard just won't fucking do it. I bet that if they released BW with SC2 matchmaking, higher pixelated graphics, port-forwarding, and perhaps SC2's observer tools, ALL of their bad reps will dissipate. And all of those "features" takes 2 months maximum to introduce. Blizzard CEO should go back to business school 101 because he is seriously missing some great business opportunities here of high profits and low costs. Like holy crap, I would pay monthly fee to get on that server. The problem really is that "casuals" ( the new generation of sc2 players) probably don't want that. Imagine going from 1 hotkey to macro to 7 hotkey to macro while stil using 1a2a3a consecutively. They just don't get why thats necessarry.. Of course we absolutely love it and we know bw's depth and its materpiece but sc2 players dont. I think fish/iccup/old bw veterans will buy that asap but not the new generation. I think it will be like 40k players total SC2 players aren't retarded, contrary to popular belief, if I can understand why 12 units per control group I'm pretty sure anyone can. You're wrong. The average SC2 player prefers unlimited selection and auto mine. he makes a good point. They aren't retarded lol. They have more preference with a higher unit count per control group. According to one of BW's programmers, 12 was done so that you can't just select everything at once with it, to allow smaller battles and more strategy since you have more control. I see his point but I doubt you can pull that off with SCII tbh. 24-36 per control group would've been a much better idea between the two imo ^^ Having said that, I would prefer doesn't get updated graphics. I grew up playing it with the current graphics and if someone needs to have ultra graphics before they even try out a game that is considered legendary, then maybe they shouldn't try it in the first place lol I didn't say they are retarded. I meant that they do not see the value of manual mining and limited unit selection. ya, I didn't think you said that since that generalization across the SCII community would be rather big lol. Well, limited unit selection, I agree with you but I don't see manual mining as having a ton of value. I mean, yes, it may mean a couple of less seconds mining if you forgot to get your workers to mine but even in BW, there were instances where that happened to players and it won't make that much of a difference unless you have a specifically tailored build where that small difference would mess it up. I think I've even seen some idle SCVs from Flash in one of his games and wondered why they weren't mining lol. It's possible that some of them (keep in mind some BW players switched to SCII as well) are aware of at least the limited unit selection value but don't care as much because a) they still have BW and b) it's a lot less intensive so if you want a game where it's easier to do stuff like moving a 100+ supply army after an exhausting day, SCII fits that well. Personally, I like both and can see both of the values. BW makes me feel like I'm working for the win(if I end up winning lol) and SCII allows me to just sit back and relax since it's a lot easier to play from a mechanics perspective. Still doesn't mean I won't rage against colossi or arbiters though lol >.> see sc2 fans don't get this.Manually dragging your scv/drone/probe? haha hey lets factor in manually doing 4z5z6z7z8z9z or 5s6s7s8s9s0s or using f2f3f4f5 key. lets not forget u gotta 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a. You factor all of this in and you have players who vary and who are bonjwa. This is what differentiates players from players. Thats why you have jaedong who has been dominant for 2-3 years because he was masterful in those categories as well as other categories. We fans appreciate just how intense and tough it is to execute that. its like how on the hell did he micro 2 groups of mutas while 3m4m5m using 1a2a and expanding
Reread the bolded part please. I've played as much BW as I've played SCII. BW was my childhood game that I spent summers playing on end and never got bored with it. I've played SCII a lot with friends when it was first released and enjoyed it thoroughly so I'm a fan of both games and that won't change anytime soon. I like both games for what they are. My point? You're making a big assumption thinking that I don't appreciate how amazing BW players are just because I said that manual mining isn't that big of a deal imo(in comparison to 12 unit selection and no smart casting).
On a side note: SCII on the surface is easier in some aspects to BW and other aspects like less time to micro need work(SCII has pre-engagement micro and a bit of inbattle micro) but part of the game is really deep once you take a closer look. Take a look at Jaedong vs sOs(shy) games from Blizzcon(avoid game 1) to see what I mean or some of Taeja or Maru's games.
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Gret News! Midas was one of my favorite players. His TvP was insanely good back in the days.
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BigFan, the significant part is not that you might fail at ordering your workers to mine. You most likely won't fail at that, but it will cost apm. This, along with many other small things that all add up, make Brood War an apm intensive game. Because it is so apm intensive, there is a lot more to spend your apm on than your total supply of apm, which means you have to choose what to spend it on wisely. You have to manage it like the resource it is. Sometimes, you will choose to spend it on a vulture drop that you got inside your opponent's base rather than on putting workers on minerals. But sometimes, you will make the choice to back off with your marine medic contain vs lurkers, in order to be able to macro safely.
If you do not believe me, and you think that the best pro gamers can do everything, look at Jaedong vs Flash. Not even Jaedong had the apm to do it all. That's why he had over 1000 minerals vs Flash in many games, including his games vs Flash in WCG 2010. During the midgame, when it was extremely micro intensive, Jaedong made sure he spent all his gas, but he valued mutalisk micro, scouting, cutting off reinforcements with lurkers, making sure he always had defilers with consume at all strategic locations, hunting science vessels with scourge, and zergling counterattacks, over extra zerglings.
If BW was less apm intensive, he wouldn't have had to make that choice. He would just have everything.
Another interesting thing it adds, is the strategic viability of spending extra resources on production facilities to make up for your lack of devoted macro apm. For example, you might decide to add more barracks than you could support, assuming you produced out of them non stop. This isn't a bad thing to do, because even good players struggle to macro perfectly while managing two dropships, and a marine medic science vessel army.
So you're actually trading minerals for apm. But you can also trade apm for minerals, if you choose to focus on your macro and make sure you always produce perfectly. If you do this, however, you'll have less apm for your army, and you probably won't be able to use drops as efficiently.
You can also harass your opponent's apm and resource supply, like you can harass his pylons or probes. For example, a few zerglings, two lurkers, and a defiler in someone's base can take a lot of apm to deal with, essentially giving you free time. You can use this to just expand normally and get more ahead, or you can attack him frontally at the same time for devastating results.
These are just some basic examples of the added strategic depth that the resource of apm and attention give to real time strategy games. I think SC2 doesn't use this resource as well as SC1 does, and is therefor lacking in that department, among others ones.
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68 Posts
Another update: In addition to Kim Carrier, TheMarine and Gorush will also be commentating for SSL9.
He also says that he is replacing the stargirls with "interview girls" whom he is currently in the process of casting.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51102 Posts
On December 09 2013 09:15 juki wrote:Another update: In addition to Kim Carrier, TheMarine and Gorush will also be commentating for SSL9. He also says that he is replacing the stargirls with "interview girls" whom he is currently in the process of casting.
we don't need stargirls or interview girls, I want my JUICEGIRLS back!
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Glad to see so much of familiar faces coming back at commentator desk
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TG Sambo for mystery sponsor plz
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51102 Posts
On December 09 2013 12:01 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
TG Sambo for mystery sponsor plz
LOL
titty sambo sibal farm starleague
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On December 09 2013 12:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:LOL titty sambo sibal farm starleague
This is just hilarious to even attempt pronouncing.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51102 Posts
On December 09 2013 14:12 Ciryandor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 12:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 09 2013 12:01 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
TG Sambo for mystery sponsor plz LOL titty sambo sibal farm starleague This is just hilarious to even attempt pronouncing.
its actually sinbal farm, but i just wanted to write sibal.
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EPT
