• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:06
CET 19:06
KST 03:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview0RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1833
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Innova Crysta on Hire
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1310 users

BW General Discussion - Page 139

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 503 Next
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 15 2016 16:36 GMT
#2761
Does anybody know what exactly this video below is about and what the people in the comment section are saying?
Google translate gives me something about AlphaGo and Flash ( Lee Young Ho )





apparently my BWAPI spider mine trick video is in there as well.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 15 2016 19:28 GMT
#2762
are the leagues ever going to change their map pool? was recently watching kim carry's casted game and was so glad to see troy there...
POGGERS
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
April 15 2016 20:05 GMT
#2763
On April 16 2016 04:28 konadora wrote:
are the leagues ever going to change their map pool? was recently watching kim carry's casted game and was so glad to see troy there...


both players and fans are quite divided on using new or different maps from what I gathered.

Kim carry did some map tests during the last week of Feb-first week of march. Involving players like mind, best ZerO, sharp, guemchi and larva, but he never uploaded the vods on YouTube.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 16 2016 06:52 GMT
#2764
man, that sucks. i have iterated time and time again that what made starcraft great was the evolution of strategies that came with the changes and evolution of maps... and after a while (post-sc2), i felt the games were quite stagnant. there's only so many games you can watch on fighting spirit and circuit breaker...
POGGERS
pbu
Profile Joined April 2016
1 Post
April 18 2016 02:05 GMT
#2765
are there team leagues or low level tourneys on tl anymore?
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
April 18 2016 02:10 GMT
#2766
On April 18 2016 11:05 pbu wrote:
are there team leagues or low level tourneys on tl anymore?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/497918-r-and-s-amateur-teamleague

it just recently ended.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/504007-iccup-nation-league-esbp

currently running, but not low level
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
April 18 2016 03:19 GMT
#2767
On April 18 2016 11:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2016 11:05 pbu wrote:
are there team leagues or low level tourneys on tl anymore?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/497918-r-and-s-amateur-teamleague

it just recently ended.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/504007-iccup-nation-league-esbp

currently running, but not low level

to add to that:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/506253-d-c-rank-man-vs-machine-teamleague

.

There will probably be another amateur league running up at some point if you're interested!

Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
April 18 2016 13:00 GMT
#2768
On April 16 2016 15:52 konadora wrote:
man, that sucks. i have iterated time and time again that what made starcraft great was the evolution of strategies that came with the changes and evolution of maps... and after a while (post-sc2), i felt the games were quite stagnant. there's only so many games you can watch on fighting spirit and circuit breaker...

Agreed on that. Some of the most interesting games post proscene came from the new maps Sonic made them play.

I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to introduce new maps when that model was proven so successful by the OSL and MSL. At least once a year, preferably every six months, maps have to change. Anything older than a year and a half can't be played again unless it has been off the shelf for awhile and there's interest around how the current meta would work on them.

I guess they can't test the maps as much as they used to be able to, but I think the stakes are a lot lower too, so they don't need to be as rigorous. StarCraft's strength over ordinary sports is unending novelty combined with fierce competition, not fierce competition alone.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10260 Posts
April 18 2016 15:54 GMT
#2769
On April 18 2016 22:00 Chef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2016 15:52 konadora wrote:
man, that sucks. i have iterated time and time again that what made starcraft great was the evolution of strategies that came with the changes and evolution of maps... and after a while (post-sc2), i felt the games were quite stagnant. there's only so many games you can watch on fighting spirit and circuit breaker...

Agreed on that. Some of the most interesting games post proscene came from the new maps Sonic made them play.

I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to introduce new maps when that model was proven so successful by the OSL and MSL. At least once a year, preferably every six months, maps have to change. Anything older than a year and a half can't be played again unless it has been off the shelf for awhile and there's interest around how the current meta would work on them.

I guess they can't test the maps as much as they used to be able to, but I think the stakes are a lot lower too, so they don't need to be as rigorous. StarCraft's strength over ordinary sports is unending novelty combined with fierce competition, not fierce competition alone.

I think the main issue is that their practice environment is different. In the past, a league would state what maps would be in use, and the teams would be forced to practice them, no questions asked. They would prepare strategies, develop timings, learn pathing and mineral efficiencies, building placement, proxy locations through hundreds of games played simultaneously by multiple top-level players.

The current practice environment in Fish contrasts greatly with this, for multiple reasons:

1. Players are playing with other ex-progamer friends, many of whom are likely to end up being your opponent in an upcoming tour.

2. Players are playing publicly with stream on to make money.

3. Players are forced to play FS and CB ad infinitum because of the Fish scene.

4. Players don't have the support of an entire team + coaching staff when analyzing new maps and creating/testing build orders and strategies. This means that even if there are new maps, we are probably more likely to see the same strategies we're familiar with being shoehorned into new maps instead of new play styles being used.

Another added and speculative point is that while we have seen some Korean map makers post on TeamLiquid recently, from what I recall most of the maps are either a. old unused maps being published, b. novelty maps like that 3v3 map, or c. not thoroughly play tested and were changed based on feedback in thread and after a little testing from the map maker, all of which suggest that there perhaps aren't that many new Korean maps that are viable or readily available in this era. I can't claim to have any authority on this matter and I am just judging from what I've seen on TeamLiquid, perhaps there are more developments elsewhere that we as a community are not aware of. However, I imagine there was some incentive for mapmakers in the past during the KeSPA era that does not exist now. That could be changed, though.

It's also possible that the desire for new maps is simply not a popular demand, possibly due to aforementioned points. I think we can all agree that FS and CB are the most balanced maps available, in no small part due to their blandness. This presents a relatively even playing fields for players of any race, or at least the most even we have now. They are well-practiced, well-known, well-understood, and therefore the chances of flukey wins and dumb decisions based on the map diminishes at the top level. This has its own appeal to viewers who on average, like the ex-pros, are more familiar with these maps than any other.

All of these factors lead me to think that the current state of Brood War is simply not conducive to new maps being introduced. I'm not necessarily arguing against it, I'm just saying that I understand why it's not happening.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12024 Posts
April 18 2016 18:57 GMT
#2770
On April 18 2016 11:05 pbu wrote:
are there team leagues or low level tourneys on tl anymore?


I was running one, but then interest died out and when I tried to spark it again not enough people posted that they wanted to play :/
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10260 Posts
April 18 2016 19:08 GMT
#2771
On April 19 2016 03:57 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2016 11:05 pbu wrote:
are there team leagues or low level tourneys on tl anymore?


I was running one, but then interest died out and when I tried to spark it again not enough people posted that they wanted to play :/

I wouldn't say that BOSL was very low rank... Lots of strong players in that one!
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
April 18 2016 21:53 GMT
#2772
On April 19 2016 00:54 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2016 22:00 Chef wrote:
On April 16 2016 15:52 konadora wrote:
man, that sucks. i have iterated time and time again that what made starcraft great was the evolution of strategies that came with the changes and evolution of maps... and after a while (post-sc2), i felt the games were quite stagnant. there's only so many games you can watch on fighting spirit and circuit breaker...

Agreed on that. Some of the most interesting games post proscene came from the new maps Sonic made them play.

I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to introduce new maps when that model was proven so successful by the OSL and MSL. At least once a year, preferably every six months, maps have to change. Anything older than a year and a half can't be played again unless it has been off the shelf for awhile and there's interest around how the current meta would work on them.

I guess they can't test the maps as much as they used to be able to, but I think the stakes are a lot lower too, so they don't need to be as rigorous. StarCraft's strength over ordinary sports is unending novelty combined with fierce competition, not fierce competition alone.

I think the main issue is that their practice environment is different. In the past, a league would state what maps would be in use, and the teams would be forced to practice them, no questions asked. They would prepare strategies, develop timings, learn pathing and mineral efficiencies, building placement, proxy locations through hundreds of games played simultaneously by multiple top-level players.

The current practice environment in Fish contrasts greatly with this, for multiple reasons:

1. Players are playing with other ex-progamer friends, many of whom are likely to end up being your opponent in an upcoming tour.

2. Players are playing publicly with stream on to make money.

3. Players are forced to play FS and CB ad infinitum because of the Fish scene.

4. Players don't have the support of an entire team + coaching staff when analyzing new maps and creating/testing build orders and strategies. This means that even if there are new maps, we are probably more likely to see the same strategies we're familiar with being shoehorned into new maps instead of new play styles being used.

Another added and speculative point is that while we have seen some Korean map makers post on TeamLiquid recently, from what I recall most of the maps are either a. old unused maps being published, b. novelty maps like that 3v3 map, or c. not thoroughly play tested and were changed based on feedback in thread and after a little testing from the map maker, all of which suggest that there perhaps aren't that many new Korean maps that are viable or readily available in this era. I can't claim to have any authority on this matter and I am just judging from what I've seen on TeamLiquid, perhaps there are more developments elsewhere that we as a community are not aware of. However, I imagine there was some incentive for mapmakers in the past during the KeSPA era that does not exist now. That could be changed, though.

It's also possible that the desire for new maps is simply not a popular demand, possibly due to aforementioned points. I think we can all agree that FS and CB are the most balanced maps available, in no small part due to their blandness. This presents a relatively even playing fields for players of any race, or at least the most even we have now. They are well-practiced, well-known, well-understood, and therefore the chances of flukey wins and dumb decisions based on the map diminishes at the top level. This has its own appeal to viewers who on average, like the ex-pros, are more familiar with these maps than any other.

All of these factors lead me to think that the current state of Brood War is simply not conducive to new maps being introduced. I'm not necessarily arguing against it, I'm just saying that I understand why it's not happening.

Sorry to make you write so much, but I'm not really convinced. I believe a large niche crowd that BW attracted through the novelty of new maps is lost. There are people who don't care, it's true, and some people who might even say they like watching the same tried and true maps and the same strategies because they are more interested in the mechanical side of BW. But I think I wouldn't have even bothered watching Sonic of Kongdoo leagues if they were all FS and CB. The new maps are what pull fans like me, because I want to think about the new strategies and how players will adapt, and as much as some players might try to shoe horn familiar strats in, they're always going to put a twist on it because they know it has to be different.

I also think BW grew out of shabby practice environments, and it was never a problem then to have new maps and shake things up. Things eventually became very sophisticated, but they were originally shoe-string budget teams.

I think the bigger obstacle is getting multiple leagues to agree on a set of new maps. It can't be an isolated effort if players are going to be motivated. If the vast majority of prize pools are using older maps, it demotivates the players to think about the new ones. That's something Kongdoo and Sonic leagues sucked at. They each just did their own thing.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Ares[Effort] *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
DEMACIA6550 Posts
April 19 2016 15:06 GMT
#2773
Where do I find the latest ladder stats from Fish server? I used the Fish website before but it hasn't been updated in ages
Moderatorgold coin
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2041 Posts
April 19 2016 18:16 GMT
#2774
https://www.fishbattle.net/rank_ladder
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
ProMeTheus112
Profile Joined December 2009
France2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-19 19:00:56
April 19 2016 19:00 GMT
#2775
Well I saw many nice new maps being posted, but they were not added to ICCup map pool were they??
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10260 Posts
April 19 2016 21:04 GMT
#2776
On April 20 2016 04:00 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Well I saw many nice new maps being posted, but they were not added to ICCup map pool were they??

From what I recall from an earlier thread on ICCup maps, for whatever reason the ICCup ladder map pack cannot contain more than 25 maps. They chose to replace Lost Temple with Heartbeat before the start of this season IIRC.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Ares[Effort] *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
DEMACIA6550 Posts
April 20 2016 05:00 GMT
#2777
On April 20 2016 03:16 kogeT wrote:
https://www.fishbattle.net/rank_ladder

I referred to that in my post and it hasn't been updated in a long time
Moderatorgold coin
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States788 Posts
April 20 2016 06:06 GMT
#2778
On April 20 2016 06:04 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2016 04:00 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Well I saw many nice new maps being posted, but they were not added to ICCup map pool were they??

From what I recall from an earlier thread on ICCup maps, for whatever reason the ICCup ladder map pack cannot contain more than 25 maps. They chose to replace Lost Temple with Heartbeat before the start of this season IIRC.

The iccup map pack has 50 maps
NAKR`flying
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6802 Posts
April 20 2016 07:20 GMT
#2779
On April 20 2016 14:00 Ares[Effort] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2016 03:16 kogeT wrote:
https://www.fishbattle.net/rank_ladder

I referred to that in my post and it hasn't been updated in a long time

What do u mean? 1 hour? 30 minutes? Im rank 135 and i did it yesterday.
Ares[Effort] *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
DEMACIA6550 Posts
April 20 2016 08:21 GMT
#2780
Huh Flash still shows up as 14-5 for me but on his stream he shows higher game count
Moderatorgold coin
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 503 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko562
Harstem 487
mouzHeroMarine 334
JuggernautJason80
UpATreeSC 78
BRAT_OK 70
MindelVK 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25641
Calm 2471
Shuttle 766
firebathero 172
Hyun 124
Dewaltoss 113
Mong 52
Rock 49
Barracks 41
Bale 12
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 12
HiyA 12
Shine 8
Dota 2
420jenkins497
Counter-Strike
fl0m2600
Fnx 1451
byalli575
adren_tv60
Other Games
Grubby1940
Liquid`RaSZi1863
B2W.Neo1404
FrodaN1060
Beastyqt784
Liquid`Hasu189
QueenE133
KnowMe108
ToD78
Mew2King24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2300
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 65
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• FirePhoenix13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1173
• Shiphtur425
Other Games
• imaqtpie635
Upcoming Events
All-Star Invitational
8h 10m
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
17h 55m
AI Arena Tournament
1d 1h
All-Star Invitational
1d 8h
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
OSC
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
6 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.