On January 20 2016 12:05 halomonian wrote: I would like to try my hand at BW. And since i play protoss in SC2, i want to play P in BW. I have everything up and running but where do i start gameplay wise? Should i just hop on iccup and wing it a bit? Or should i get a build per matchup and practice against the AI? And what about the mechanics and timings?
you can play a few games versus the AI, but it is not need at all costs. Some beginners do to get comfortable and thats fine.
Your best server imho is ICCup, it's a competetive ladder server, we all play on. Unless you are a big exception, you will find the skill level very high at first, so stick to it, work through it be patient and analyse your replays. Find people to practice with and whom you can ask for help.
You want to pick 1 build roughly per matchup and practice it exclusively at first. you'll find the build here in the Liquipedia I recommend picking the ultra standard builds to start:
PvP 1 gate core, PvT 1 gate goon into expand Pvz forge FE
Mechanics are a very challenging part for people who have played Sc2. As you probably have heard, the macro is a lot harder to due the lack of MBS and smartcast and such. You want to focus a good deal of your attention at improving your macro early. Timings are important too, but i think it's a good idea to figure them out while playing, since it makes little sense to talk about them in a vacuum here.
If you want to play a practice game, so i can give you general tips or help in any regard, feel free to write a PM to me :>
Are you already set up on the "technical side"? MCA Launcher OR ICCup Launcher, registering an account at ICCup, color bugs, port forwarding?
Yup! Ports are forwarded, iCcup account is created, color bugs are fixed and I'm using iccup launcher. The only visual bug i am experiencing is text rendering over itself on game info, but none of the fixes i tried helped (most only made it worse). In Sc2 there used to be this rule of thumb that a base can sustain 3 gates of constant production, so it helped me on the midgame to add gates accordingly. Is there such a thing on BW? Also, some of the build order articles on liquipedia only cover the early game. What should I be doing on the midgame and lategame? Or it depends on the map?
On January 20 2016 12:05 halomonian wrote: I would like to try my hand at BW. And since i play protoss in SC2, i want to play P in BW. I have everything up and running but where do i start gameplay wise? Should i just hop on iccup and wing it a bit? Or should i get a build per matchup and practice against the AI? And what about the mechanics and timings?
you can play a few games versus the AI, but it is not need at all costs. Some beginners do to get comfortable and thats fine.
Your best server imho is ICCup, it's a competetive ladder server, we all play on. Unless you are a big exception, you will find the skill level very high at first, so stick to it, work through it be patient and analyse your replays. Find people to practice with and whom you can ask for help.
You want to pick 1 build roughly per matchup and practice it exclusively at first. you'll find the build here in the Liquipedia I recommend picking the ultra standard builds to start:
PvP 1 gate core, PvT 1 gate goon into expand Pvz forge FE
Mechanics are a very challenging part for people who have played Sc2. As you probably have heard, the macro is a lot harder to due the lack of MBS and smartcast and such. You want to focus a good deal of your attention at improving your macro early. Timings are important too, but i think it's a good idea to figure them out while playing, since it makes little sense to talk about them in a vacuum here.
If you want to play a practice game, so i can give you general tips or help in any regard, feel free to write a PM to me :>
Are you already set up on the "technical side"? MCA Launcher OR ICCup Launcher, registering an account at ICCup, color bugs, port forwarding?
Yup! Ports are forwarded, iCcup account is created, color bugs are fixed and I'm using iccup launcher. The only visual bug i am experiencing is text rendering over itself on game info, but none of the fixes i tried helped (most only made it worse). In Sc2 there used to be this rule of thumb that a base can sustain 3 gates of constant production, so it helped me on the midgame to add gates accordingly. Is there such a thing on BW? Also, some of the build order articles on liquipedia only cover the early game. What should I be doing on the midgame and lategame? Or it depends on the map?
it can depend heavily on the map and ofc on what your opponent is doing. Regarding gateways: Well as a general assumption, you can have 3 gates per base, if you macro very well. However, the majority of us don't, so i recommend sticking to 4. Don't listen blindly to that. If you are 2 base and have trouble spending your income on 8 gates, add more. You can always go back to making less, once your macro imrpoves.
Another thing i wanna mention is: if you play PvZ, make absolutely sure you know how to Forge fast expand on the map your play, in doubt check the proper building position (Gateway, forge, pylon if need) for the map. As a general rule, gateway over forge is ling tight, while it's not the other way around. block the wholes with early zealots and with probes in order to prevent a ling runby or bust on your cannons.
i recommend playing some games first, before you ask much more questions, since you get a better idea what you need to work on. As stated earlier, unless your the exception of the rule, your issues will be much more basic than proper lategame behavior in PvZ for instance.
I want to introduce a friend to BW and would like to show her a really good match. I am looking for something like this: 1) Good english commentary (preferably Tasteless, Sayle, etc) 2) High video/sound quality (preferably 720p or better) 3) A longer match, no cheese 4) A somewhat recent match (after 2012) so that the meta is not too different from todays 5) It doenst have to necessarily be koreans playing but the level of play should still be good. A nice back and forth with lots of bases taken and plenty of battles.
On January 30 2016 05:59 RoomOfMush wrote: I want to introduce a friend to BW and would like to show her a really good match. I am looking for something like this: 1) Good english commentary (preferably Tasteless, Sayle, etc) 2) High video/sound quality (preferably 720p or better) 3) A longer match, no cheese 4) A somewhat recent match (after 2012) so that the meta is not too different from todays 5) It doenst have to necessarily be koreans playing but the level of play should still be good. A nice back and forth with lots of bases taken and plenty of battles.
On January 30 2016 05:59 RoomOfMush wrote: I want to introduce a friend to BW and would like to show her a really good match. I am looking for something like this: 1) Good english commentary (preferably Tasteless, Sayle, etc) 2) High video/sound quality (preferably 720p or better) 3) A longer match, no cheese 4) A somewhat recent match (after 2012) so that the meta is not too different from todays 5) It doenst have to necessarily be koreans playing but the level of play should still be good. A nice back and forth with lots of bases taken and plenty of battles.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
The VNSL finals that just happened might fit the bill.
On January 30 2016 05:59 RoomOfMush wrote: I want to introduce a friend to BW and would like to show her a really good match. I am looking for something like this: 1) Good english commentary (preferably Tasteless, Sayle, etc) 2) High video/sound quality (preferably 720p or better) 3) A longer match, no cheese 4) A somewhat recent match (after 2012) so that the meta is not too different from todays 5) It doenst have to necessarily be koreans playing but the level of play should still be good. A nice back and forth with lots of bases taken and plenty of battles.
I think this video is really good. It's a triple commentary of the finest that were in the business: Klazart, moletrap, and diggity! Has your friend played StarCraft themselves a little? If she does that then she can gain some perspective/context as to how difficult the maneuvers and the sheer level of mechanics that are being pulled off actually are.
On January 23 2016 20:44 iamho wrote: Are a lot of top zergs doing 4 hatch hydra openings now or just effort?
Hero went 4 hatch hydra against free in SSL semis, no other games I can remember. I think effort is using a modified 4 hatch build as a response to gate FE builds. He specifically went 3 hatch->ling speed(remove drones from gas) ->4 hatch->hydra den, while in match point against forge first he went 3 hatch lair->speed->4th hatch->hydra den
On January 30 2016 05:59 RoomOfMush wrote: I want to introduce a friend to BW and would like to show her a really good match. I am looking for something like this: 1) Good english commentary (preferably Tasteless, Sayle, etc) 2) High video/sound quality (preferably 720p or better) 3) A longer match, no cheese 4) A somewhat recent match (after 2012) so that the meta is not too different from todays 5) It doenst have to necessarily be koreans playing but the level of play should still be good. A nice back and forth with lots of bases taken and plenty of battles.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
One of the best and most exciting games ever. Bisu vs. Flash, 2012 Proleague Finals, Ace Match. Sayle cast.
Awesome game of Bisu vs. Flash! I always never paid any attention to the proleague games thinking they weren't all that great, but man, that game disproved that! That was single handedly the first game to make me go on the edge of my seat since two years ago! Epic game!
On January 23 2016 20:44 iamho wrote: Are a lot of top zergs doing 4 hatch hydra openings now or just effort?
Hero went 4 hatch hydra against free in SSL semis, no other games I can remember. I think effort is using a modified 4 hatch build as a response to gate FE builds. He specifically went 3 hatch->ling speed(remove drones from gas) ->4 hatch->hydra den, while in match point against forge first he went 3 hatch lair->speed->4th hatch->hydra den
Yes precisely. I think the 4 hatch build before lair delivers a stronger economy to zerg (compared to 3 hatch spire) while also giving back momentum due to very fast hydralisks (sniping forge/gateway, forcing cannons).
And speed before hydra den worked wonders against the higher zealot count in games 1 and 3(due to gate FE). Actually , I just watched Zero using 4 hatch before gas, too (on Fs, before scouting Protoss), seems it's becoming more and more popular
Something that tends to bother me a lot is how many known foreigners don't utilize return cargo. I see a significant loss in economy and wasted apm by people who aren't using it. The command is so easy in use that I'd reckon it would only take 1 (custom) game of practice to implement this into your gameplay. Especially for TLS I'd like to see all competitors know about it and use it!
EPT
Perfectman in a long time. Good to see him playing again.
