On November 29 2012 03:01 sluggaslamoo wrote: Impossible.
The logistics of transferring more than 100MB of spritesheets every time you load the game would make it unviable.
Performance is no problem at all. Running it in a browser or not makes no difference, you can run full 3d games in a browser no problem, the issue is transferring all that data (which is why most big games don't run in a browser), you may as well make it an installable game.
I'm curious to why transferring 100 mb every time you run the game would make it impossible, instead of inconvenient.
And I'm curious as to how performance would be no problem at all. Performance would only be no problem if the code was modified specifically for browser usage. Outside of that, not a single version of windows emulation has been able to emulate it without latency issues.
On November 29 2012 06:00 asiantraceur wrote: So, what would need to be done to get this in a browser? -Blizzards permission -coder(s) with spare time -source code Anything else?
- either coders with spare time or the people managing the project has a shit ton of money
How awesome would it be if Blizz made a Browser version of BW (like Quake Live) and implemented a ladder system like they have for SC2. Also, I think it would be great if they released Diablo 2 for ios but now with an AH/RMAH. Yes I know some people hate the AH, but I feel it adds legs to the game. Similar to how a ladder system increases long term potential for competitive games, if you will.
On November 29 2012 09:06 AnomalySC2 wrote: How awesome would it be if Blizz made a Browser version of BW (like Quake Live) and implemented a ladder system like they have for SC2. Also, I think it would be great if they released Diablo 2 for ios but now with an AH/RMAH. Yes I know some people hate the AH, but I feel it adds legs to the game. Similar to how a ladder system increases long term potential for competitive games, if you will.
It would definitely increase the player base and be awesome... too bad blizzard won't make it or let anyone make it. They care too much about squeezing the most out of their current flagship titles.
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
did you click on the links?
The links you keep giving only get you halfway there, at best. There's tons of code in the game that simply does not port to a browser, like the network and graphics stuff. And since BW was coded kind of badly, there's not a whole lot of abstraction and thus they enter tons of parts of the code. Not to mention the fact that it'd be almost guaranteed illegal to distribute a copyrighted binary that was programmatically translated to javascript, regardless of whether or not you include the assets.
So now we're talking about someone needing to write a way to programmatically translate specific parts of the code to javascript that compensates for the fact that its in a browser and combine it with the emscripten parts, then distribute *that* program to anyone that actually wants to use the thing. Those people would then have to run it on a legal copy of BW to get the actual browser code, at which time there's no point in having it run in a browser any more.
Clean-room reverse engineering would be the only way to do this without guaranteed legal consequences, and good luck finding 2+ people with enough time and dedication to clean-room RE the entirety of BW.
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
did you click on the links?
The links you keep giving only get you halfway there, at best. There's tons of code in the game that simply does not port to a browser, like the network and graphics stuff. And since BW was coded kind of badly, there's not a whole lot of abstraction and thus they enter tons of parts of the code. Not to mention the fact that it'd be almost guaranteed illegal to distribute a copyrighted binary that was programmatically translated to javascript, regardless of whether or not you include the assets.
So now we're talking about someone needing to write a way to programmatically translate specific parts of the code to javascript that compensates for the fact that its in a browser and combine it with the emscripten parts, then distribute *that* program to anyone that actually wants to use the thing. Those people would then have to run it on a legal copy of BW to get the actual browser code, at which time there's no point in having it run in a browser any more.
Clean-room reverse engineering would be the only way to do this without guaranteed legal consequences, and good luck finding 2+ people with enough time and dedication to clean-room RE the entirety of BW.
this has already been done on a smaller scale. this is certainly not an easy task but it is probably a lot more technically feasible than people think. The assets can be located on a random server in china or on your personal dropbox.
Legally, this is almost certainly against the EULA -- (from sc2 eula) 2.A In whole or in part, copy or reproduce (except as provided herein),translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game; -- about C&Ds, knowing about ICCUP, Fish, bwapi etc. there is a chance they let it slide.
Personally I do not play BW and I am too busy so I won't start that.
EDIT: clean room a sufficiently close enough version of BW gameplay-wise shouldn't be that hard nowadays since you don't have to care about performance at all (replicating all the bugs might be painstakingly hard though). you can throw away solo mode (and the tons of stuff necessary for campaign scenari), battle.net, the customs, and everything except the actual game 1vs1 (and you could add a true observer mode). however you wont be able to use the assets anyway and without a dedicated graphic team you'll get a shitty looking game!
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
did you click on the links?
The links you keep giving only get you halfway there, at best. There's tons of code in the game that simply does not port to a browser, like the network and graphics stuff. And since BW was coded kind of badly, there's not a whole lot of abstraction and thus they enter tons of parts of the code. Not to mention the fact that it'd be almost guaranteed illegal to distribute a copyrighted binary that was programmatically translated to javascript, regardless of whether or not you include the assets.
So now we're talking about someone needing to write a way to programmatically translate specific parts of the code to javascript that compensates for the fact that its in a browser and combine it with the emscripten parts, then distribute *that* program to anyone that actually wants to use the thing. Those people would then have to run it on a legal copy of BW to get the actual browser code, at which time there's no point in having it run in a browser any more.
Clean-room reverse engineering would be the only way to do this without guaranteed legal consequences, and good luck finding 2+ people with enough time and dedication to clean-room RE the entirety of BW.
this has already been done on a smaller scale. this is certainly not an easy task but it is probably a lot more technically feasible than people think. The assets can be located on a random server in china or on your personal dropbox.
Legally, this is almost certainly against the EULA -- (from sc2 eula) 2.A In whole or in part, copy or reproduce (except as provided herein),translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game; -- about C&Ds, knowing about ICCUP, Fish, bwapi etc. there is a chance they let it slide.
Personally I do not play BW and I am too busy so I won't start that.
EDIT: clean room a sufficiently close enough version of BW gameplay-wise shouldn't be that hard nowadays since you don't have to care about performance at all (replicating all the bugs might be painstakingly hard though). you can throw away solo mode (and the tons of stuff necessary for campaign scenari), battle.net and everything except the actual game. however you wont be able to use the assets anyway and without a dedicated graphic team you'll get a shitty looking game!
You don't even have to bother looking at the EULA (BW has a different EULA than SC2 btw ), its a DMCA restriction. ICCup and Fish run on PvPGN, which is the second coming of bnetd. You may not be familiar with bnetd, but it was sued into the ground by Blizzard for violating the DMCA. PvPGN remedied this by only reversing network packets to construct the server (a variant of clean room techniques), and by basing themselves in countries not as friendly with US law.
Trust me, I am intimately familiar with the internals of BW. I have a very good idea of what would need to be rewritten, and its not the least bit simple or straightforward. The removal of single player also doesn't really save you a whole lot of effort, and if you want to support UMS maps it saves you basically nothing at all.
Does the color problem necessarily have to be a problem? I downloaded SCBW from my account on battle.net (added the key from my CD, so it was free), and encountered no problems whatsoever - color or otherwise.
you don't need the source code you probably don't need blizzard authorization as long as you only provide the code to use legal bw files to launch the game (but you dont provide the assets yourself)
I am not a computer expert but I beg to differ. If you don't have the source code in which the game engine was built upon, you are not going to be able to replicate a lot of the bugs and tricks you can do in game. Without those bugs and tricks, it is not SC. I remember very clearly that Chris Sigaty tried so hard with his team to emulate muta stacking in SC2, they simply cannot do it because of a different game engine.
Everything is easier said than done, people should know that.
I didn't know they tried to emulate Muta Stacking in SC2 but failed .
The biggest issue here lies in the fact that no one has access to/permission to the original source code. Backwards engineering SCBW is perfectly doable, but then even after that porting all that to JS/AS/HTML5, optimizing it, organizing it would take even a team of full-time employees anywhere between a few months to a year. and then it would be shut down by Blizzard.
I think it either has to be done by Blizzard, or someone has to make a clone, building everything from ground up. Means better optimization from the beginning and cutting all but the most necessary features.
But getting SWBW 1:1 in browser will never happen from community effort. I mean sure it might, but i don't think it would last, and that prospect is pretty heart-breaking to most devs.
But then again getting something VERY close (1:A clone) is "just" a lot of work and time. And that would in the end be doable - just very time consuming.
EPT
), its a DMCA restriction. ICCup and Fish run on PvPGN, which is the second coming of bnetd. You may not be familiar with bnetd, but it was sued into the ground by Blizzard for violating the DMCA. PvPGN remedied this by only reversing network packets to construct the server (a variant of clean room techniques), and by basing themselves in countries not as friendly with US law.
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